Max Muscle Layering?

Training
101

Well what I noticed was that after a particularly hard grind, my performance would take a dip for the following week or so. As an example I hit 225x2 on the incline one week, which was a big PR for me but a tough lift. The following 2 weeks I struggled to get 215x1 (as well as taking a hit on my decline).

After I decided to remove the grinding reps, I went back to 225 easily and have turned that weight into a “sure thing.” The Trap Bar Dead Lift is another lift that seems to affect the whole bodies recovery if you grind out a rep. Its tough to quantify over the internet, but I feel pretty confident in saying my “recovery” improved after I eliminated the grinding reps.

I also remember during my DoggCrapp days years ago, which is a program BASED around grinding reps out, I would feel completely wiped out every single day. I literally felt like I was being crushed by something. I suppose thats why the “blasts” only last 8-10 weeks or so before you have to deload.

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CT, if you’re still reading this do you have any advice or new methods for someone who has gone through the initial 12 week block?

You had mentioned on page one that you had various other HDL methods as well.

As of now I’m just going to start over with the 54321, then the extended sets, then back to the Hard 5’s

Thanks for the system, seems to be working its magic well for me.

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but for my question, can u answer me if u are able to ? thanks alot

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@Silver Ace:

Yeah this may be my issue as well…as I noticed this past couple weeks my numbers dropped about 10 lbs. on most lifts. HOWEVER I did drop 2 Pulses and a Finibar, replacing the FiNi with solid food slightly less calories I’m sure. It seems the weight is now coming back up though.

May be due to the cal drop, and/or the grind factors.

105

[quote]bigmax wrote:
but for my question, can u answer me if u are able to ? thanks alot[/quote]

Your question is not easily answered because there isnt an “official” split for this system. The initially recommended split to develop what CT calls the “Power Look” is as follows:

Day 1 - Snatch Grip High Pull
Day 2 - Slight Decline Tilt Bench Press from Pins ~1-2 inches off chest
Day 3 - Trap Bar Dead Lift (Dead-Squat bar being the preferred bar)
Day 4 - Snatch Grip High Pull
Day 5 - Slight Incline Tilt Bench from Pins

That is the Main lift of the day, and the ONLY lift to be performed “layer style” (Ramp, Cluster, HDL). You can add 1 accessory move for 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps after the main lift.

However, you can use other exercises like Squats/Military/Deads, and the system has been adapted for Strength, Fat Loss, Power Lifting, Strong man, etc… and other layouts for the Power Look.

Look up our thread in this forum called “Latest layer info” for much more information.

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@Sliver Ace:

Well upon thinking our above comments over and last nights “normal decline” Layer, and CT not commenting on our views for possible non interest: I’ve decided that I will keep maxing to the “grind” through all lifts, HDL Extended sets and Cluster sets I will also hit max at the last portion of the exercise for max power output reasons. Bi’s,Tris isolation and back work I will max out on only the last set or two during the 10 minute post training.

For the High Pulls: Im def going to change. Anything under neck line with 45% knee bend will also be considered a “max”. This will be attempted tonight on “light layer” format.

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Cool man, hopefully it works for you. I definitely do reps that are HARD, but just not reps that are going to take 4-5 seconds to complete. My mental rule is if I’m not 90% sure I’m going to make the rep I dont attempt it… Which is usually after that HARD rep.

Keep an eye out for your performance after a particularly grueling session though. If you notice a nose dive just keep these ideas in mind.

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for what its worth, i took a step back and thought about how powerful high pulls are for packing on size and strength, even though you never ‘grind’ a rep. i applied this to my pressing, and started stopping reps when they started to slow down, initially this was about 90% of my ‘grinding max’, and i can safely say that the size and strength gains from layer style pressing have never come quicker!!!

think about it… why would CT recommend doing the DeadSquat Launch? because its awesome when applied to the layer system -even more so than trap bar deadlifts IMO.

remember that F=ma… so acceleration (and therefore bar speed) is equally important in progression.

try mixing it up and focus on explosive presses, in the short term it kick starts some new growth from the fast twitch fibres, in the longer term you’ll be able to lift heavier overall.

109

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
for what its worth, i took a step back and thought about how powerful high pulls are for packing on size and strength, even though you never ‘grind’ a rep. i applied this to my pressing, and started stopping reps when they started to slow down, initially this was about 90% of my ‘grinding max’, and i can safely say that the size and strength gains from layer style pressing have never come quicker!!!

think about it… why would CT recommend doing the DeadSquat Launch? because its awesome when applied to the layer system -even more so than trap bar deadlifts IMO.

remember that F=ma… so acceleration (and therefore bar speed) is equally important in progression.

try mixing it up and focus on explosive presses, in the short term it kick starts some new growth from the fast twitch fibres, in the longer term you’ll be able to lift heavier overall.[/quote]

People GROSSLY underestimate the value of high speed lifting work. Not surprisngly they also grossly overestimate their actual speed when attempting to do speed work!!! This is often because people go too heavy with their speed work or simply that they have not learned to lift weights explosively. It IS a skill that needs to be developped independantly of limit strength.

110

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
for what its worth, i took a step back and thought about how powerful high pulls are for packing on size and strength, even though you never ‘grind’ a rep. i applied this to my pressing, and started stopping reps when they started to slow down, initially this was about 90% of my ‘grinding max’, and i can safely say that the size and strength gains from layer style pressing have never come quicker!!!

think about it… why would CT recommend doing the DeadSquat Launch? because its awesome when applied to the layer system -even more so than trap bar deadlifts IMO.

remember that F=ma… so acceleration (and therefore bar speed) is equally important in progression.

try mixing it up and focus on explosive presses, in the short term it kick starts some new growth from the fast twitch fibres, in the longer term you’ll be able to lift heavier overall.[/quote]

People GROSSLY underestimate the value of high speed lifting work. Not surprisngly they also grossly overestimate their actual speed when attempting to do speed work!!! This is often because people go too heavy with their speed work or simply that they have not learned to lift weights explosively. It IS a skill that needs to be developped independantly of limit strength.[/quote]

its times like this that make me wish T-Nation had a ‘like’ button!

111

@Silver Ace:

So funny, right when you think CT has missed our threading or busy, he sneaks one in.

112

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
for what its worth, i took a step back and thought about how powerful high pulls are for packing on size and strength, even though you never ‘grind’ a rep. i applied this to my pressing, and started stopping reps when they started to slow down, initially this was about 90% of my ‘grinding max’, and i can safely say that the size and strength gains from layer style pressing have never come quicker!!!

think about it… why would CT recommend doing the DeadSquat Launch? because its awesome when applied to the layer system -even more so than trap bar deadlifts IMO.

remember that F=ma… so acceleration (and therefore bar speed) is equally important in progression.

try mixing it up and focus on explosive presses, in the short term it kick starts some new growth from the fast twitch fibres, in the longer term you’ll be able to lift heavier overall.[/quote]

People GROSSLY underestimate the value of high speed lifting work. Not surprisngly they also grossly overestimate their actual speed when attempting to do speed work!!! This is often because people go too heavy with their speed work or simply that they have not learned to lift weights explosively. It IS a skill that needs to be developped independantly of limit strength.[/quote]
Interesting. I really need to quit worrying about weight, and get the speed up. I am getting more work in though.
Today I stepped back in weight and did 10 sets of 3 at the top of every minute. Going to progress to 8 sets of 4 since I felt the speed was decent. If I hit that mark, then 7 sets of 5, again at the top of every minute. Raise the weight for the following and start over at 10 sets of 3. Follow that with 5 sets of 3, power clean and push press. No time on this. progress to 4 sets of 4 next workout. Neutral chins for 12 sets of 2 at the top of every minute, slight pause at top. Nowhere near limit. Will go to 8x3, 6x4, 5x5, then raise weight. 2 sets 5 slight decline bench. Nowhere near limit. Will raise weight 5 lbs only. Raise it here and there, not worried about it. One set full range lateral raises. Done. two days rest. It fits in my schedule and it is fun

113

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
for what its worth, i took a step back and thought about how powerful high pulls are for packing on size and strength, even though you never ‘grind’ a rep. i applied this to my pressing, and started stopping reps when they started to slow down, initially this was about 90% of my ‘grinding max’, and i can safely say that the size and strength gains from layer style pressing have never come quicker!!!

think about it… why would CT recommend doing the DeadSquat Launch? because its awesome when applied to the layer system -even more so than trap bar deadlifts IMO.

remember that F=ma… so acceleration (and therefore bar speed) is equally important in progression.

try mixing it up and focus on explosive presses, in the short term it kick starts some new growth from the fast twitch fibres, in the longer term you’ll be able to lift heavier overall.[/quote]

People GROSSLY underestimate the value of high speed lifting work. Not surprisngly they also grossly overestimate their actual speed when attempting to do speed work!!! This is often because people go too heavy with their speed work or simply that they have not learned to lift weights explosively. It IS a skill that needs to be developped independantly of limit strength.[/quote]
Interesting. I really need to quit worrying about weight, and get the speed up. I am getting more work in though.
Today I stepped back in weight and did 10 sets of 3 at the top of every minute. Going to progress to 8 sets of 4 since I felt the speed was decent. If I hit that mark, then 7 sets of 5, again at the top of every minute. Raise the weight for the following and start over at 10 sets of 3. Follow that with 5 sets of 3, power clean and push press. No time on this. progress to 4 sets of 4 next workout. Neutral chins for 12 sets of 2 at the top of every minute, slight pause at top. Nowhere near limit. Will go to 8x3, 6x4, 5x5, then raise weight. 2 sets 5 slight decline bench. Nowhere near limit. Will raise weight 5 lbs only. Raise it here and there, not worried about it. One set full range lateral raises. Done. two days rest. It fits in my schedule and it is fun[/quote]

wow. sounds like you are over thinking things massively!!! just focus on the lifts you are doing, think about bar speed, and stop the sets when you start to grind! this 10,8,7 sets of blah blah blah is too much. just focus on explosiveness, then do 3 sets of straight sets or clusters at 90%, then do 3 sets of HDL, whether its ‘hard 5’s’, ‘max reps’, or ‘descending sets’… just ramp up the weight, intensify the loading process with 90% lifting, then cement the stimulus with the strength capacity ‘HDL’ work afterward… hey presto! you’re bigger stronger and potentially leaner depending on your diet!!! i recommend an intermittent fasting diet for fat loss and slight muscle gains, IMO

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