Fantastic post. I’m stuck posting from my phone because for some reason my computer stopped allowing me to access the forums. That’s why I’ve dropped out of this discussion, but I wanted to drop in and say that this is the best post I’ve seen in this entire 2000+ post thread so far. I could not agree more strongly.
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Anyone who lectures others on what a racist is, claiming to have himself somehow transcended racism, is a liar. A damned liar.
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Oh, for sure. @ Survival or concern for safety as some “lower function” I meant more like something that is automatic or instinctual, not that it’s less important. [quote=“BrickHead, post:2125, topic:210559”]
What if someone loves America? What if an American does think he or she is superior to non-Americans? Is there something wrong with this?
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No. We have a pretty amazing country. A lot of people want to come here. “God and country” tend to fall on the conservative side of the morality spectrum. There’s an Alan Jackson song called Small Town Southern Man with lyrics “He bowed his head to Jesus, and stood for Uncle Sam.” Not that many liberals on the far end of the spectrum don’t love our country, but in my experience this kind of thing doesn’t resonate, in fact, they seem to find it embarrassing. People listening to Alan Jackson are the unsophisticated religious conservatives. This is my completely unbiased experience. wink. My dad is a moderate Dem, and the love of God and country resonate with him profoundly. He was too old to be a flag-burning hippie.
When I said “the coexist bumper stickers are a nice thought,” I was being sincere, although yeah. I think it’s kind of wishful in some ways. My best friend has one on her car. I haven’t seen EyeDentist’s car. wink. That wasn’t directed at him. I think you are right that we are becoming more polarized and generally less tolerant of the people on the opposite end of the political or religious spectrum right now. I feel like there’s a lot of political tension, a lot that’s very divisive regarding both class and race too. For the most part we do coexist here in America pretty well, even in places like where Brick lives. But, I fully agree with his point that there are people in the world who have zero interest in coexisting with you or me.
edited to add -
About the frustration with people who claim to be tolerant, but are blind to their own intolerance, or are actually pretty hateful. Amen. It’s hard to tolerate that, particularly when you feel like it’s aimed at YOU.
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Thank you very much! Thank god there are some people out there who see and speak about the world as it is and in some ways how it always will be!
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I agree that they’re nice in and of themselves, a very sweet thought, and I’m sure the people driving them are nice people - but in my experience they tend to be anti-Christian, anti-conservative, anti-business bigots, and for that reason they set my teeth on edge. For whatever reason I am able to deal better with a traditional bigot than a new-age bigot, which I credit to the hypocrisy involved with the latter. However, I’m sure your best friend does not fit that description at all!
My best friend made clear when Hockey, who is politically conservative, came along that she “could never be with a republican.” I’m not sure how anyone rules out half the people in our country as potential mates, but I find that just another form of prejudice. There are things I agree deeply with on both sides of the political spectrum, and am honestly confused as to how anyone simply rejects one side’s positions or the other’s.
He and I score very closely on political spectrum quizzes, and I would not be surprised if she scored similarly, too, despite our three very different self-imposed labels.
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In my experience they tend to be progressive Christians whose understanding of the Gospel compels them to oppose many so-called ‘conservative values,’ and to be deeply skeptical of the rapacious business practices typical of many large corporations.
You don’t see how someone who is pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage, TG-inclusive, pro-higher taxes on the wealthy, pro-higher minimum wage, pro-gun control, pro-immigration reform, etc, could say a priori that they cannot see themselves making a life with someone who opposes all those things? Color me puzzled. Or are you saying that it is presumptuous to assume that all Republicans are opposed to all these things?
@EmilyQ I don’t recall discussing fighting with you. If I did, I apologize. I also don’t recall you policing people.
Are you just curious as to what an obese, overweight, or unattractive woman’s life is like, or are you concerned? I am simply making conversation because you’ve sparked my curiosity in your musings.
As a healthcare profession–one who deals with food and nutrition, no less–I am only concerned about overweight and obese people’s path to destruction and in some ways concerned that their lack of care for their health, will, or perhaps even has, created a demographic of semi-crippled and diseased people, which is not good for a nation’s health. Most, certainly not all, overweight people are purely careless. Sure, many have fallen victim to an addiction or vice that they seem to not be able to escape, but from my life and professional experience, most do not give a damn!
This leads me to the fat-acceptance movement, a movement which claims that overweight people are discriminated and hated. Forgive me for sounding insensitive (I am not), but I have observed and worked with thousands of overweight people. As a matter of fact, I estimate that out of my 400 or so co-workers, that 90-plus percent are overweight or obese females, but for some strange reason, despite all the supposed anti-overweight discrimination in our society (as if normal people have nothing to be concerned about than thinking of overweight people), the majority of them have no problem finding mates, having families, getting an education or training, and being employed. I should add that probably 98% of my co-workers are non-white too. This also includes the electricians and other tradesmen working on the building, excluding only two damn hard working immigrant-white carpenters laying floors while on their knees much of the day for the whole building for months on end.
My god, such discrimination: employment, romantic partners, salaries, health benefits, friends.
I used to be a more sensitive person, perhaps to a fault, but professional cry-wolf cry-bullies and liberals have managed to suck it out of me.
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Precisely. It would be nice if people could judge one another based on qualities they actually have rather than attributing qualities fostered by polarized media and political machines. “Content of character,” and all that.
It’s the hypocrisy of liberal prejudgment that bugs me. I think if we’re going to preach tolerance, we should also exhibit it. Call me a starry-eyed dreamer…
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I think I’m mostly just pointing out that women’s experiences vary wildly based on factors that much less impact men, and that traditional-minded men always seem to be picturing a comely woman when they talk about the way things ought to be. She should be home tending children, etc - but who is lining up to support the overweight, unattractive woman whose left leg is longer than her right?
So I suppose I’m talking about my concern for them in the emotional sense rather than physical, as well as pointing out what I see as a blind spot in many men’s thinking.
Their families, husbands, boyfriends, friends, and children. Like I said, having seen out in public and worked with a majority of overweight and obese women, most seem to be doing just fine socially. I go out to a restaurant, I see women with partners and children. I go to work with hundreds of obese and overweight women with kids and/or families. I don’t think there are enough people out there that dump their own obese and overweight family members and friends because of their conditions. Who does?
I am not the expert on every single social matter, but I’d say after seeing, working with, and observing thousands of people throughout life my conclusion is reasonable: most obese and overweight people, as unhealthy as they are, have as much social and emotional support as any other average American citizen (although it might be hard to tell these days just who the heck an average American citizen is).
Men’s experiences differ hugely as well. I don’t know why you think otherwise. You think a poor boy has the same experience as one from a rich family, who has a $25,000±a-year country club membership, drives a BMW at age seventeen, travels the world at a young age, goes to a well-resourced high school, has a daddy who is lining him up for an internship at a finance job down the line, never has to work minimum wage jobs while studying for school, or perhaps will be handed over a family business, and so on. Or what about a guy who grows up with a single mom versus one who grows up with a sane dad and an intact family unit?
Or for an example in comparison of grown adults, do you think a brick layer or pipe-fitter has the same life experience as a surgeon or lawyer? Or perhaps the life of a short, homely man versus a talented and handsome man?
You think Asian-, black-, Jewish-, white, and Latino-American men have the same life experiences? Seriously?
I think your thinking on this one is way, way off base. I am a dude who grew up around other dudes, and one that grew up around not only ethnic diversity, but vast financial and familial diversity as well.
Thank you.
God Christ it’s refreshing to see those statements in print.
Does conservative prejudgment bug you as well?
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Considering the left paints all conservatives as heartless, racist women hating war mongers… Any prejudgement from their camp should be expected, therefore not bugging anyone.
You can’t paint one side as the “intolerant” side, and then complain if one fits your preconceived narrative.
Overweight, unattractive men, most likely.
This follows your assertion that the left paints all conservatives as heartless, racist women hating war mongers.
So which side is intolerant, and engages in prejudgment again?
Most real liberals, not incidental liberals, heinously intolerant and incoherent.
I am not a conservative though.
Depends on the issue.
Neither side is terribly consistent as a group, and both have their pet causes and paint the other side as “lessor”. All while ignoring the vast middle at the expense of projecting the few upon the whole…
It isn’t so much about which side is more/less tolerant, it’s the fact that one side in particular always claims to be the tolerant ones.
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Agreed, which makes it all the more hilarious when one states I wouldn’t tolerate a right leaning spouse (because apparently mixed political relationships can’t work or something) and then another to defend that intolerance. Only to double down and try to project that intolerance unto the right, twice.
Honestly been the most entertaining part fo my day.