Unfortunately (that being an opinion) it may be easier to get the Senate bill through the House than might at first be expected given the difficulty Pelosi had in getting the House bill through the House.
Reason being that the Senate bill is the less hard-left of the two.
I really don’t think that hard-left ideologues in the House are really going to change their votes because of the Senate bill having less of what they want, and if anything the Senate bill should be more palatable than the House bill to the Blue Dogs that voted for that bill.
And that’s all the votes that Pelosi needs.
The X factor that could change that would be if Blue Dogs now have more fear of losing their seats if they vote in favor again instead of switching votes. But seeing as how they voted “yes” before while knowing that the majority of the American people were solidly against it, why assume they will do a reversal now?
Remember, they voted for a bill that the CBO projected would require a family of four to pay $15,000 per year for health insurance meeting the government standard, that imposed a $25,000 fine for those that did not buy it, and 5 year imprisonment for those that did not pay the fine.
These are the kinds of people we are talking about. This needs to not be forgotten when trying to project how they will vote on the Senate bill.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
But seeing as how they voted “yes” before while knowing that the majority of the American people were solidly against it, why assume they will do a reversal now?[/quote]
Very good points Bill. Presumably, though, before they could hide and pretend they’re doing “the people’s business.” And lie to themselves.
But this is so extraordinary - and, yes, I do think it is - that they can no longer pretend or hide or lie to themselves about the will of the American people.
Whatever happens, my good man, I simply can’t wait to see!
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
But seeing as how they voted “yes” before while knowing that the majority of the American people were solidly against it, why assume they will do a reversal now?[/quote]
Very good points Bill. Presumably, though, before they could hide and pretend they’re doing “the people’s business.” And lie to themselves.
But this is so extraordinary - and, yes, I do think it is - that they can no longer pretend or hide or lie to themselves about the will of the American people.
Whatever happens, my good man, I simply can’t wait to see![/quote]
They never were lying to themselves about the will of the people. This crew, whatever else they are, are not idiots. They just don’t give a shit until the political price is high enough to force them to. Are we there yet? I’m not sure, but I doubt it. These folks, unlike Bill Clinton and some of his inner circle at the time, are true communist believers. They are genetically coded for the agenda we’ve seen this past year. There is no plan B compromise. Definitely not for Obama. He has no reason to open his eyes in the morning if not to don his Marxist armor and go to war for the cause. I stand whole heartedly by what I said all through the 08 campaign. He is an enemy of the United States as constituted by our founders, as are many in the house and senate. They aren’t going to shrink sheepishly away into the mists of compromise.
November, about 1/3 of the seats. I haven’t checked into which ones. Reid is one of the ones facing re-election or more likely loss, though.
Didn’t Dodd throw in the towel already? His seat is up I think.
All else being equal (which it won’t be) people won’t as much treat the question of their own Congressman or Senator with the importance that was the case here today. That is to say, many voters do prefer either actually gridlock, or for there to be enough balance that no one party can push an agenda that the other is 100% opposed to. But that doesn’t mean that when it comes to their own Congressman or Senator that he has to be one of the ones providing the balance. Why, voters in other districts and states can do that.
Today though that was not the case. Massachusetts alone could take away the filibuster-proof supermajority, or see that it was retained.
They’re jumping the gun a little. The Republicans do not at this moment have 41 seats: the Democrat appointee is still the junior Senator from Massachusetts. Minor point though.
I see from your link that only 19 of the seats are held currently by Democrats. Thus, the only way the Republicans could attain a 60-seat supermajority of their own, sufficient to defeat expected Democrat opposition to repeal of any health care bill now passed by the Democrats, would be to win all 19 of these seats and lose none of their own.
That would seem extremely unlikely.
Besides, that alone or even together with taking the House would not suffice, as Obama would simply veto any such repeal, at which point they’d need 67 votes not just 60.
Some opposed to the health care bill have stated that they hope the Democrats pass it just so as to destroy the Democratic Party forever and all we would have to do is repeal it upon their losing the majority, but repealing it, if it becomes law, is not so realistic.
Let’s not underestimate the current GOP’s breathtaking talent for squandering opportunity and missing the point. I have no great confidence at the moment that they will actually do any lasting good with the gaping door that’s being opened for them.
I’ll bet Obama’s rumored Stimulus II plan will be used to pay off Congressmen agreeing to vote for the Senate health care bill. And of course to cut out any who vote no.
Should we have a pool on how many billions in pork?
…Let’s not underestimate the current GOP’s breathtaking talent for squandering opportunity and missing the point. I have no great confidence at the moment that they will actually do any lasting good with the gaping door that’s being opened for them…
The Tea Party is what won him this race. You can see in the polls, he was trailing by by a bit. They announced support and he surged ahead. At least we know health care is dead.
In the other thread on this race, I explained why it may not be so difficult to get the House to pass the Senate bill. At which point all that is needed is Obama’s signature.
In the other thread on this race, I explained why it may not be so difficult to get the House to pass the Senate bill. At which point all that is needed is Obama’s signature.[/quote]
The house won’t pass the senate bill. After tonight’s race how do you think all the blue dogs are feeling?
I expect in the next few days to hear people start singing a different tune.
[quote]John S. wrote:
The Tea Party is what won him this race. You can see in the polls, he was trailing by by a bit. They announced support and he surged ahead. At least we know health care is dead.[/quote]
She ran a shitty campaign. He made 63 campaign appearances, she made 19. He just outworked her, plain and simple.
Still, don’t write this one off just yet… we have ACORN working behind the scenes, and I think we can turn this result around in the next 24 hours.
I’m just kidding.
Brown is up for reelection in 2012 and it will be interesting to see if he thinks he can vote strictly along Republican lines, while representing one of the bluest states in America. This may be one of the shortest Senate careers in history.
[quote]John S. wrote:
The Tea Party is what won him this race. You can see in the polls, he was trailing by by a bit. They announced support and he surged ahead. At least we know health care is dead.[/quote]
She ran a shitty campaign. He made 63 campaign appearances, she made 19. He just outworked her, plain and simple.
Still, don’t write this one off just yet… we have ACORN working behind the scenes, and I think we can turn this result around in the next 24 hours.
I’m just kidding.
Brown is up for reelection in 2012 and it will be interesting to see if he thinks he can vote strictly along Republican lines, while representing one of the bluest states in America. This may be one of the shortest Senate careers in history.
[/quote]
If he follows what he told the people he will do, he will be in the senate for a long time.
[quote]John S. wrote:
If he follows what he told the people he will do, he will be in the senate for a long time.
[/quote]
He can legislate from the far right and alienate the Dems and Independents, or he can legislate as a moderate and lose his base. He will certainly be in the spotlight more than other Senators. So I think it’s going to be a short Senate career for him.
But congratulations Republicans. Nobody can lose 'em all.
[quote]John S. wrote:
If he follows what he told the people he will do, he will be in the senate for a long time.
[/quote]
He can legislate from the far right and alienate the Dems and Independents, or he can legislate as a moderate and lose his base. He will certainly be in the spotlight more than other Senators. So I think it’s going to be a short Senate career for him.
But congratulations Republicans. Nobody can lose 'em all.[/quote]
The fact that you try and downplay the major victory this is shows just how far your head is shoved up your own ass.
If he runs and stays true to what he says he will be in there for a long time. Have fun trolling tonight.