Masculinity: Is It Just Sociological?

Off Topic
61

[quote]Damici wrote:

There’s no question in my mind, by the way, that much of gender roles are biological – hormones play a part, as does the way our brains are wired. It’s been shown that male and female brains work differently in some respects in the way they analyze and respond to various things.

[/quote]

Just because male and female brains work differently in some aspects in the way they analyze and respond to things does not prove inherent male female differences.

Studies like this are typically done on adults (who have had heavy cultural influence of course). Thus it would be difficult to tease apart whether or not these processing differences came to be because of 18-20 years of life experience or genetic “programming”

Homosexual also have different brain anatomies. There is particular part of the brain, (whose name has escaped me) that is much larger in homosexual men than straight men. The knee-jerk interpretation of this is they have a bigger “____” that influences them to be gay. But it is also possible that - they are gay therefore this particular part of the brain has hypertrophied due to the life experience associated with being gay in western society.

62

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I’d like to agree with the consensus that masculinity is biological and not cultural.[/quote]

Is this the consensus? I hope not. I hope most people realize it is a combination of both genetics/biology and environment/culture.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

[quote]
Men think in different ways than women. It doesn’t take much to observe this phenomenon.[/quote]

I dont think anyone would argue this point. It, however, means nothing in the context of the genetic or culture debate.

63

[quote]HotCarl28 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
I’d like to agree with the consensus that masculinity is biological and not cultural.

Is this the consensus? I hope not. I hope most people realize it is a combination of both genetics/biology and environment/culture.

Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

Men think in different ways than women. It doesn’t take much to observe this phenomenon.

I dont think anyone would argue this point. It, however, means nothing in the context of the genetic or culture debate.

[/quote]

I’m saying it’s mostly biological. I’m sure culture affects it somewhat, but the groundwork has already been laid by physiology. I’ve read about studies that scientists have been moving toward the idea that even personality is mostly biologically dictated. Apparently the evidence is rather profound, though I don’t have any links for you, as this was hard copy stuff.

Are you suggesting that testosterone has nothing to do with how traditional masculinity is created and perpetuated? From what I understand, men have been acting the same way, generally speaking, forever. This is regardless of culture, geography, and upbringing. Of course, there is some deviation, such as matriarchal society and effeminate men, but these are isolated extremes, not the norm.

I also doubt effeminacy or homosexuality is culturally dictated. I know a girl with six brothers. Of these, five are your standard, masculine guy types. The other is a flaming flamboyant homosexual. I think it’s safe to say they were all raised in the same culture in the same way. The only variable is biology. Surely that must mean something.

64

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I miss my fucking Snake Eyes action figure.[/quote]

My sister always stole Cobra Commander. How the fuck can I play GI Joe without the fucking bad guy?!?!?!

65

[quote]HotCarl28 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:

Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA!

Neither one of you men have encountered a woman with PMS.

She would rip off your head and shit down your neck before you had a chance to raise a fist.

66

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
HotCarl28 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:

Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Neither one of you men have encountered a woman with PMS.

She would rip off your head and shit down your neck before you had a chance to raise a fist.

[/quote]

I’d argue, but frankly, Momma, you scare me.

It must be the maniacal laugh.

67

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
HotCarl28 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:

Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Neither one of you men have encountered a woman with PMS.

She would rip off your head and shit down your neck before you had a chance to raise a fist.

I’d argue, but frankly, Momma, you scare me.

It must be the maniacal laugh.[/quote]

I’m not afraid to admit that while Bauer is the human offspring of a dump truck and M1 Abrams tank, Momma is probably the last person on T-Nation that I would want to piss off.

Thankfully, I am also a member of Bass Club and we are friends. pops E string

68

Masculinity has to be a mixture of both biological processes and cultural learning.

The male role models that boys have in life will largely determine their own personalities.

Kids that are born to submissive men may tend to be more on the “feminine” side, whereas kids born to aggressive fathers tend to take on those traits.

Funny thing though…boys that have highly dominant mothers will tend to end up as pussies. Anyone beg to differ?

69

[quote]anthropocentric wrote:

Funny thing though…boys that have highly dominant mothers will tend to end up as pussies. Anyone beg to differ?[/quote]

That’s tremendous bullshit. My boys play rugby just as aggressively as I do, if not more.

70

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
anthropocentric wrote:

Funny thing though…boys that have highly dominant mothers will tend to end up as pussies. Anyone beg to differ?

That’s tremendous bullshit. My boys play rugby just as aggressively as I do, if not more.
[/quote]

Yeah, but they do it in a dress.

71

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
anthropocentric wrote:

Funny thing though…boys that have highly dominant mothers will tend to end up as pussies. Anyone beg to differ?

That’s tremendous bullshit. My boys play rugby just as aggressively as I do, if not more.
[/quote]

There’s a difference between ‘dominant’ and ‘dominating’. Emasculating your kids makes them pussies, telling them to ‘stop being such a pussy’ does not.

72

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
HotCarl28 wrote:
Vicomte wrote:

Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

Why do you imagine this is inherent biology (genetics) rather than socially influenced.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Neither one of you men have encountered a woman with PMS.

She would rip off your head and shit down your neck before you had a chance to raise a fist.

I’d argue, but frankly, Momma, you scare me.

It must be the maniacal laugh.

I’m not afraid to admit that while Bauer is the human offspring of a dump truck and M1 Abrams tank, Momma is probably the last person on T-Nation that I would want to piss off.

Thankfully, I am also a member of Bass Club and we are friends. pops E string

[/quote]

Word.

73

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
analog_kid wrote:

I’d argue, but frankly, Momma, you scare me.

It must be the maniacal laugh.

I’m not afraid to admit that while Bauer is the human offspring of a dump truck and M1 Abrams tank, Momma is probably the last person on T-Nation that I would want to piss off.

Thankfully, I am also a member of Bass Club and we are friends. pops E string

Word.[/quote]

Thanks. But I’ve been called worse things. I’ll take “tank” as a compliment. And I really do have a feminine side, I wear lacy panties underneath my leather pants. And I have more shoes than Imelda Marcos. If that ain’t girly enough for ya, then fuck alla youse!

74

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
analog_kid wrote:

I’d argue, but frankly, Momma, you scare me.

It must be the maniacal laugh.

I’m not afraid to admit that while Bauer is the human offspring of a dump truck and M1 Abrams tank, Momma is probably the last person on T-Nation that I would want to piss off.

Thankfully, I am also a member of Bass Club and we are friends. pops E string

Word.

Thanks. But I’ve been called worse things. I’ll take “tank” as a compliment. And I really do have a feminine side, I wear lacy panties underneath my leather pants. And I have more shoes than Imelda Marcos. If that ain’t girly enough for ya, then fuck alla youse!

[/quote]

Oh, it’s, uh, very girly.

Ma’am.

75

MikeKubo I don’t know how young you are, but I’m young myself (21) and I 100% agree with everything you have written here. I read through it all thinking “wow, this fucker is in my head!” lol

I don’t know about you, but I fully credit my father with how I turned out. He is a chivilrous guy, taught me to be the same…but he is a fucking man and he doesn’t take shit or cower for anybody or anything.

I really believe its thanks to growing up with such a good role model for what a MAN should be that I can today consider myself to be the masculine man that I am.

I open the door for my lady, always compliment her and make sure she feels beautiful and confident in herself, etc…but I don’t let any woman change who I am, bend me over backwards, get me to give up my friends or the things I love, etc.

And I have always made sure to find myself women who like “MEN” and like them for what they are supposed to be, not what society is pushing on us as the typical male image.

76

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
anthropocentric wrote:

Funny thing though…boys that have highly dominant mothers will tend to end up as pussies. Anyone beg to differ?

That’s tremendous bullshit. My boys play rugby just as aggressively as I do, if not more.
[/quote]

Hows your relationship with their father? As long as, you’re not emasculating either the father or the kids, then I’m sure you’re raising some strong boys.

The problem arises when the mother does everything for the son…she’ll go complain to teachers and get his grade changed, she’ll tell him that he’s not allowed to ride on fair rides because they are unsafe, and she will make every single decision in the household.

Moms like this need to back the fuck off, or otherwise risk having their boys never reach manhood.

On a similar topic, there is always pressure on males to be the “Man.” TC embraces this viewpoint, that we have natural roles to fulfill as the cock-bearers…but that doesn’t seem to dissuade the emo boys from wearing girl pants.

77

[quote]anthropocentric wrote:
On a similar topic, there is always pressure on males to be the “Man.” TC embraces this viewpoint, that we have natural roles to fulfill as the cock-bearers…but that doesn’t seem to dissuade the emo boys from wearing girl pants.

[/quote]

Tight, skinny pants make me sick. I like my pants loose, and baggy enough to hold my nutsacks.

It really is physically uncomfortable on my testicles wearing tight jeans, especially when walking or sitting down. I don’t know how any male with a pair can wear them. I call them nut-crushers.

78

[quote]HotCarl28 wrote:
Damici wrote:

There’s no question in my mind, by the way, that much of gender roles are biological – hormones play a part, as does the way our brains are wired. It’s been shown that male and female brains work differently in some respects in the way they analyze and respond to various things.

Just because male and female brains work differently in some aspects in the way they analyze and respond to things does not prove inherent male female differences.

Studies like this are typically done on adults (who have had heavy cultural influence of course). Thus it would be difficult to tease apart whether or not these processing differences came to be because of 18-20 years of life experience or genetic “programming”

Homosexual also have different brain anatomies. There is particular part of the brain, (whose name has escaped me) that is much larger in homosexual men than straight men. The knee-jerk interpretation of this is they have a bigger “____” that influences them to be gay.

But it is also possible that - they are gay therefore this particular part of the brain has hypertrophied due to the life experience associated with being gay in western society.[/quote]

Good point. The argument that differences in peoples’ brains are purely the cause of behaviour and not the result, of life experience and the way the brain has been used and programmed, is one that infuriates me.

Sure, there are some hardwired traits - but these can be programmed out of us by culture (for example telling us what not to do), which then makes them atrophy on a physiological basis.

Or, the things we do the most, causes the area of the brain associated with the particular behaviour or activity to grow more neuronal connections; more bloodflow and nutrients flood the area, and it can enlarge and become more powerful. The brain is an adaptive, plastic organ.

(not literally plastic - “plasticity” in the sense that it has the ability to change, repair, and reform)

79

Ever check out some girl’s skinny little ass from behind only to find out its a emo dude wearing girl pants? WTF its like a tranny trick! Its wrong! But its a free country and who am I to tell him he can’t wear gay looking shit.

80

[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
anthropocentric wrote:
On a similar topic, there is always pressure on males to be the “Man.” TC embraces this viewpoint, that we have natural roles to fulfill as the cock-bearers…but that doesn’t seem to dissuade the emo boys from wearing girl pants.

Tight, skinny pants make me sick. I like my pants loose, and baggy enough to hold my nutsacks.

It really is physically uncomfortable on my testicles wearing tight jeans, especially when walking or sitting down. I don’t know how any male with a pair can wear them. I call them nut-crushers.[/quote]

I agree with you completely on the nut-crushing effects of tight ass pants…I imagine its even worse for you with your multiple nutsacks, I only have to worry about my one nutsack and even that hurts.