Masculinity: Is It Just Sociological?

Off Topic
41

It’s funny when people talk about how culture is involved in so many things.

My best friend growing up was a boy. We played together almost everyday. I had a predisposition towards tomboyish things, we would make bows and arrows and spears out of sticks, and make forts in nearby woods, and ride our bikes like they were motorcycles.

Annnndddd, at other times, we would play house. I had a doll that I just loved, I used to wrap it up in this blanket. I’m talking, about ages 7 here, before we were really aware of or gave a crap about the things we were supposed to do.

He would play house too. He’d be the husband, I’d be the wife. The difference in our actions was apparent. We’d spend all day working together, digging out a hole and cutting down trees and building a ‘house’, and then collecting weapons and water and other stuff. Then, after it was all finished and we were inside playing, I’d be there putting a new outfit on the baby, and he’d jump up and shove us into a corner and yell to hide while he shot at the invisible robbers at the windows with his stick gun. And I mean, he’d really put the work into it, he loved it. Theennn, after the robbers were dead, he’d check on the baby, and go back on patrol. It was natural.

This was at a young age. Before he felt ashamed to play house. Before I was made to feel stupid for making weapons out of sticks. Our actions were still vastly different. It was just the way we liked to do things, the things we naturally did, and we actually got along really, really well in our little world of fort houses and dirt beds and stick weapons.

Frankly, the only thing culture tends to tell us is the things we shouldn’t do. Those days of playing without inhibitions were the most fun ever.

(though with that said, if someone tried to break into my house, I have a high preference for shooting them myself)

42

[quote]Squiggles wrote:
It’s funny when people talk about how culture is involved in so many things.

My best friend growing up was a boy. We played together almost everyday. I had a predisposition towards tomboyish things, we would make bows and arrows and spears out of sticks, and make forts in nearby woods, and ride our bikes like they were motorcycles.

Annnndddd, at other times, we would play house. I had a doll that I just loved, I used to wrap it up in this blanket. I’m talking, about ages 7 here, before we were really aware of or gave a crap about the things we were supposed to do.

He would play house too. He’d be the husband, I’d be the wife. The difference in our actions was apparent. We’d spend all day working together, digging out a hole and cutting down trees and building a ‘house’, and then collecting weapons and water and other stuff. Then, after it was all finished and we were inside playing, I’d be there putting a new outfit on the baby, and he’d jump up and shove us into a corner and yell to hide while he shot at the invisible robbers at the windows with his stick gun. And I mean, he’d really put the work into it, he loved it. Theennn, after the robbers were dead, he’d check on the baby, and go back on patrol. It was natural.

This was at a young age. Before he felt ashamed to play house. Before I was made to feel stupid for making weapons out of sticks. Our actions were still vastly different. It was just the way we liked to do things, the things we naturally did, and we actually got along really, really well in our little world of fort houses and dirt beds and stick weapons.

Frankly, the only thing culture tends to tell us is the things we shouldn’t do. Those days of playing without inhibitions were the most fun ever.

(though with that said, if someone tried to break into my house, I have a high preference for shooting them myself)[/quote]

Awesome.

43

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I just posted this on a different thread, but I just had a monster of a snake chase me up my driveway, so I screamed and luckily Dad was there and calmly stopped it with a stick. That is masculine. [/quote]

That’s a nice snake!!

Rat snake?

44

[quote]imhungry wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
I just posted this on a different thread, but I just had a monster of a snake chase me up my driveway, so I screamed and luckily Dad was there and calmly stopped it with a stick. That is masculine.

That’s a nice snake!!

Rat snake?[/quote]

That’s a San Diego Gopher snake. They are a bit irrational at times, and can really move.

OG, what did you do to piss it off?

45

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Squiggles wrote:
It’s funny when people talk about how culture is involved in so many things.

My best friend growing up was a boy. We played together almost everyday. I had a predisposition towards tomboyish things, we would make bows and arrows and spears out of sticks, and make forts in nearby woods, and ride our bikes like they were motorcycles.

Annnndddd, at other times, we would play house. I had a doll that I just loved, I used to wrap it up in this blanket. I’m talking, about ages 7 here, before we were really aware of or gave a crap about the things we were supposed to do.

He would play house too. He’d be the husband, I’d be the wife. The difference in our actions was apparent. We’d spend all day working together, digging out a hole and cutting down trees and building a ‘house’, and then collecting weapons and water and other stuff. Then, after it was all finished and we were inside playing, I’d be there putting a new outfit on the baby, and he’d jump up and shove us into a corner and yell to hide while he shot at the invisible robbers at the windows with his stick gun. And I mean, he’d really put the work into it, he loved it. Theennn, after the robbers were dead, he’d check on the baby, and go back on patrol. It was natural.

This was at a young age. Before he felt ashamed to play house. Before I was made to feel stupid for making weapons out of sticks. Our actions were still vastly different. It was just the way we liked to do things, the things we naturally did, and we actually got along really, really well in our little world of fort houses and dirt beds and stick weapons.

Frankly, the only thing culture tends to tell us is the things we shouldn’t do. Those days of playing without inhibitions were the most fun ever.

(though with that said, if someone tried to break into my house, I have a high preference for shooting them myself)

Awesome.[/quote]

Now that’s a childhood.

46

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I have gay friends that are hyper masculine. Beards, lift weights, deep voices, climb mountains. Damn cool guys, they just like cock. They don’t get along too well with the effeminate types.
[/quote]

Those masculine gay men are known as ‘bull queers’, is that correct?

[quote]
I also know straight guys that have the gay lisp and mannerisms. They are low test types.[/quote]

I know someone like this as well - straight as an arrow, rides motorbikes, loves chicks, but just seems gay in the way he talks and acts. His nickname at work is “poofter”.

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Squiggles wrote:
It’s funny when people talk about how culture is involved in so many things.

My best friend growing up was a boy. We played together almost everyday. I had a predisposition towards tomboyish things, we would make bows and arrows and spears out of sticks, and make forts in nearby woods, and ride our bikes like they were motorcycles.

Annnndddd, at other times, we would play house. I had a doll that I just loved, I used to wrap it up in this blanket. I’m talking, about ages 7 here, before we were really aware of or gave a crap about the things we were supposed to do.

He would play house too. He’d be the husband, I’d be the wife. The difference in our actions was apparent. We’d spend all day working together, digging out a hole and cutting down trees and building a ‘house’, and then collecting weapons and water and other stuff. Then, after it was all finished and we were inside playing, I’d be there putting a new outfit on the baby, and he’d jump up and shove us into a corner and yell to hide while he shot at the invisible robbers at the windows with his stick gun. And I mean, he’d really put the work into it, he loved it. Theennn, after the robbers were dead, he’d check on the baby, and go back on patrol. It was natural.

This was at a young age. Before he felt ashamed to play house. Before I was made to feel stupid for making weapons out of sticks. Our actions were still vastly different. It was just the way we liked to do things, the things we naturally did, and we actually got along really, really well in our little world of fort houses and dirt beds and stick weapons.

Frankly, the only thing culture tends to tell us is the things we shouldn’t do. Those days of playing without inhibitions were the most fun ever.

(though with that said, if someone tried to break into my house, I have a high preference for shooting them myself)

Awesome.[/quote]

Word.

48

Ok, well Zap brought up the point that there are two types of gays - the masculine and the feminine. I’d say that with the feminine types, the homosexuality itself has a genetic factor, however the imitation of females is a culturally learned trait.

49

That’s a funny story.

It appears that females are more “people oriented” and males are more oriented towards figuring out how things work.

It’s that ‘emotional intelligence’ vs. ‘spatial intelligence’ theory at work again.

50

I’ve often times wondered myself about the acting ‘gay’ thing. Like how, again, not all, but many happen to act a certain way. And it cannot be thrown off on low T. I know a guy my wife works with who is a BIG dude. 6’3" prolly about 250, muscular, pretty damn lean, natural, and is like 45 already. He’s also hairy (pool party…no homo). He looks exactly like a black version of Mr. Clean.

And, he’s the biggest fucking queen you’ve ever met in your life. The high, ‘gay’ voice, the walk, the hand mannerisms, etc. But again, not what I think of when I imagine ‘low T count’. This guy is the dude you’d rather kill yourself than admit to your friends he beat your ass though, because he is super effeminate in his mannerisms.

I do remember reading a study a few years ago, supposedly a rather large one, about how there was only 1 physical, genetic difference they could find with gay people. Gay males apparently carry the same INNER EAR PRESSURE, of all things, as a normal hetero woman does. ‘Lesbians’ could go either way, but pretty much all, excuse the term, ‘bull dykes’ had the same inner ear pressure as Tom down at the oil refinery.

The lesson? I don’t have a clue. Figure that shit out for yourself.

I will say this though. Many college professors seem to be on the ‘cutting edge’ of spreading bullshit that helps fuck this world up. In this case, what George Carlin referred to as the pussification of America. Men are being socially castrated enough as it is and our actions are lambasted as terrible. The odd thing is, for any of you who spend an inordinate amount of time around young (like 18) women, and ‘men’, you will see that while the political correctness and environmental estrogens are cutting the nuts out from under us (line up 100 16 year old men nowadays. You have a LOT of trouble telling some of them are in fact, male. They look like half made up drag queens who have been taking hormones to appear that way).

The odd thing is, the females have taken on many of the personality traits that a man would be in trouble for. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a little 15 year old love quarrel start, and in public, you’ve got the chick yelling at, berating, and often times physically assaulting the dude, while he cowers and gives the 'Okay baby, stop. I’m sorry, I’m sorry". Then you get into being around these broads, hearing how they talk, and what they talk about (like being little adolescents cock hounds for one) and the fact that every woman under the age of 25 that I know of is bisexual now. Even if they don’t call it that. I just had a chick who I work with who got married. The other girls threw her a bachlorette party and hired a stripper for the house party later that night…a FEMALE stripper.

Over half the girls I work with have subscriptions to Playboy magazine (they are all actually sent to our work…the mailman has to wonder what the fuck is going on at this bar) and to see them when “Boobie Day” shows up every month is ridiculous. A staff full of waitresses standing around flipping through OUR fucking magazine, talking about which girls they’d like to nail, etc. If I was doing this, I’d be on my ass fired and slapped with a sexual harassment lawsuit.

My whole point to those things that I see are that they start somewhere, and these ‘worldly’ college professors to me are a big part of this propaganda. Yes, the media is mainly to blame, but the people who control the media learned this shit somewhere. Given no outside influence, men will always be men.

The problem is, the outside influence right now is going in the direction of telling us it’s not natural or okay to be those men, but the same actions for women are fine, and encouraged even. And I do NOT have an issue with ‘high T’ type chicks either. I find them to be hot actually, as I imagine a lot of men do. Having a chick you can check other broads out with and pound beers with is cool. The issue is, if a chick is gunna be a scumbag about the way she tries to get in my pants and then slap me up and pull my hair while we’re going at it, realize I’m gunna hit your ass right back, and nature says it’s probably gunna hurt more when I do it. That, and you’re still making the fucking sandwiches when we’re done.

But it’s okay, because I will still insist on being the one to pay for dinner and hold the door the next time we go out. :slight_smile:

51

I already covered myself (twice) by saying that YES, I know there are exceptions in both directions. But that doesn’t eliminate the majority trend I was talking about.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Damici wrote:
Ah-ha!

Funny you should bring this up, as an offshoot to this very question is something that I was just discussing with someone recently.

There’s no question in my mind, by the way, that much of gender roles are biological – hormones play a part, as does the way our brains are wired. It’s been shown that male and female brains work differently in some respects in the way they analyze and respond to various things.

My recent conversation had to do with discussing why many (no, not ALL, I know, I’ve got to qualify this) gay man have that “gay accent,” they SOUND effeminate, and even walk, stand and move with more effeminate mannerisms (the whole bent wrist and sashaying thing). YES, I know, I’m generalizing here and YES, I know, there are also some straight men who act like that. But not many, whereas a good proportion of gay men DO sound gay and move/walk “gay.”

Is this genetic? It’s probably not due to anything hormonal, as it’s been shown that gay men do not tend to have different testosterone levels from straight men on the average.

I think it’s purely cultural, something that they’re kind of raised to take on as a gay male in our society. If you removed the societal influence and they grew up in some other society without seeing how other gay men act, my guess is that they would act and come across exactly the same as straight men do, though they would still be gay. They just wouldn’t have the effeminate mannerisms.

Perhaps they take on those mannerisms partly to “find each other,” since gay people are such a small segment of society as it is, so when they’re in the presence of each other and hear each other talking like that (or moving/acting like that) the other guy will know that they’re of like mind. So maybe it’s kind of a common sense “mating” mechanism, if you will.

Thoughts?

I have gay friends that are hyper masculine. Beards, lift weights, deep voices, climb mountains. Damn cool guys, they just like cock. They don’t get along too well with the effeminate types.

I also know straight guys that have the gay lisp and mannerisms. They are low test types.[/quote]

52

Mike Kubo, I feel that. It’s a fucked up situation my friend.

I think the male of the species will eventually become useless if this declines any further. I get disturbed when I hear girls talk about nailing other girls. Women are supposed to love a strong male cock! I like girls who like men for what they are.

Otherwise, we can just embrace the hermaphroditic evolution of our species.

53

[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:
Otherwise, we can just embrace the hermaphroditic evolution of our species.[/quote]

The economy will collapse before that and we’ll all be thrust into a “Mad Max” scenario.

That will thin the herd pretty fucking quick.

54

[quote]elano wrote:
In class we have been discussing gender roles. They are basically teaching us that being “masculine” or “feminine” is just a role you have been taught to play by society. [/quote]

Sounds like typical feminist kool-aid.

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:
“Why is that little boy looking at vaginas in the Encyclopedia Brittanica?”[/quote]

I’m picturing you as a rather large muscle bound child, bald and with a goatee.

It only serves to heighten the hilarity.

56

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
elano wrote:
In class we have been discussing gender roles. They are basically teaching us that being “masculine” or “feminine” is just a role you have been taught to play by society.

Sounds like typical feminist kool-aid.[/quote]

I like Kool-Aid.

That is all.

57

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“Why is that little boy looking at vaginas in the Encyclopedia Brittanica?”

I’m picturing you as a rather large muscle bound child, bald and with a goatee.

It only serves to heighten the hilarity.[/quote]

X was born with a goatee, and able to out-bench all but the largest football players.

On topic, sounds like a bunch of feminazi crap and nothing more.

58

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
elano wrote:
In class we have been discussing gender roles. They are basically teaching us that being “masculine” or “feminine” is just a role you have been taught to play by society.

Sounds like typical feminist kool-aid.
[/quote]

That was my entire point to the post I made and I’m glad JohnnyBlaze agreed with me. I don’t mind a broad being a feminist. Get a good job, own your own house, be a guy’s boss, whatever. Do you have equal rights on that regard? Absolutely, and you should.

However, what bothers me again is this bullshit the college professors, etc are spreading around about how the males have no reason to act like this and are all exactly the same biologically as women. Then right after they spew this shit, these ballbusting bitches go out and try to get you drunk to fuck you, won’t let you look at another girl, call you an asshole if you try and pay for dinner, can’t use the same profanity they feel they have a right to because they weren’t allowed to for so long, etc. They sit around and bitch about the males and their actions. Word to the wise women- You’ve already won at this point.

Teenage boys remind me more of the teenage girls 10 years ago than they do ‘alpha males’. Fuck, they’re barely beta males anymore.

And I’m not one who supports guns, war, rape, etc. People should be decent any way you look at it. People never will be though, so at least get off the ‘horrible man juice’ bullshit and just let us be us. And you know what? You can continue to be you too. You want to be ‘stronger’? Fine, but quit trying to make us weaker. UNLESS of course, someone out there has an ulterior motive…Hmmmmmmmmmm

One day this is going to come down to one of two things, should this planet last that long. I’d like to say one of them is even the planet going all hermaphrodite style, but it isn’t. Chicks are stepping up and we are stepping down. 100 years from now, everything going the way it is, every guy is going to be a beta male, and every woman is going to be an alpha female, and smacking us the fuck around while we roll over and take it. They’re going to be sitting around laughing about spousal abuse and cheating on men while ‘guys’ clean the house and beg for forgiveness.

Or, we’re going to wind up in a Mad Max type situation, which might actually be the preferable of the two, and I’m sure what will happen. Why? Because then, even as fucked up as it will all be, men will be forced to step up and be fucking men. Outside influence will be nil, and we will revert back to the way we were born to be. When you fuck with the way nature intends shit to go, you can only fuck it so long before it bends you back over and sticks it straight in your ass. With no lube.

Perhaps if more men come out and say ‘Hey, fuck you!’ now, we can avoid that, which would be the best possible situation and we can all exist together drooling over hot girl butts and slamming drinks. If not, and if things continue to go the direction they are headed in, this planet is going to get really, REALLY fucking messy. And we’re not the ones born with the instinct to clean it all up…

Every woman reading this right now probably hates my guts, but whatever. I’m seriously one of those few young chivalrous guys you will find, and I love women. I love strong women even more. What I hate is strong women trying to convince weak men they need to become even weaker, and then other guys following suit. The only thing I hate more is men doing it for them.

Kubo

59

I’d like to agree with the consensus that masculinity is biological and not cultural. Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

As far as the playing with toys as youngsters bit, it was never which toys you chose, but how you played with them that was important. I had a large number of action figures (read: dolls) that I played with regularly. Only these dolls wore military uniforms and fucked shit up indiscriminately. Sometimes they would simply become projectiles while I watched them slowly disintegrate against a variety of immovable objects. I knew a girl that played ‘house’ with her dolls. I played ‘Dinosaur Hunt’ with mine. One time I confiscated one of her little pink pony things and played ‘Pony Hunt’ instead. These ideas would not occur to the average female child. Like all boys, when I found one, I would always remove the clothing from a barbie. It just seemed like the thing to do.

Men think in different ways than women. It doesn’t take much to observe this phenomenon.

60

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I’d like to agree with the consensus that masculinity is biological and not cultural. Ask your girlfriend to recall the last time she ‘just felt like destroying something’. This will be met with a strange look, possibly tinged with horror. I’m sure every guy here has had moments where ‘crush, kill, destroy’ takes over. I imagine that’s biological.

As far as the playing with toys as youngsters bit, it was never which toys you chose, but how you played with them that was important. I had a large number of action figures (read: dolls) that I played with regularly. Only these dolls wore military uniforms and fucked shit up indiscriminately. Sometimes they would simply become projectiles while I watched them slowly disintegrate against a variety of immovable objects. I knew a girl that played ‘house’ with her dolls. I played ‘Dinosaur Hunt’ with mine. One time I confiscated one of her little pink pony things and played ‘Pony Hunt’ instead. These ideas would not occur to the average female child. Like all boys, when I found one, I would always remove the clothing from a barbie. It just seemed like the thing to do.

Men think in different ways than women. It doesn’t take much to observe this phenomenon.[/quote]

I agree with the ‘not what you play with, it’s how you play’ idea. The number of Barbie doll heads I have ripped off and couldn’t quit get back on would surprise you. I always wanted to cut all their hair off too, and see why their knees didn’t bend.

My choice in ‘action figures’ were transformers. It would take forever to figure out how to transform those fuckers. Then while you would play with them, you had to take an extra long cut scenes and make the transforming noise for a couple minutes while they changed from driving to fighting. Good times.