I get where you’re coming from. I used to pull almost exclusively mixed gripped until I got one hell of an imbalance. Now I mostly pull double overhand or straps and occasionally hookgrip. I’m sure you already know this but one of the cues I often use is to bend the bar away from me, this way, it allows me to engage my lats a lil bit better. The only time I’ll use mixed grip is if I’m prepping for a powerlifting meet. For the most part, my grip training is done via the farmer’s walk.
@Yogi1 thanks! I’ll confess now to not measuring quite so diligently. What goes in my shaker or on my plate gets counted. Lubricants like oil, not so much. Lazy, but it works so far.
@Destrength I’ve always preferred to pull double overhand, but I can pull more mixed so I learned how to pull mixed. I find it easier to get tight double overhand.
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Left shoulder a bit stiff on waking, but otherwise feeling pretty good. Had an awesome day off yesterday, which made a huge difference.
Today’s training
Agile 8 plus shoulders
DB bench press
20 pull aparts with rotation between first three warm-up sets.
If I set my arch and really work on holding it while I press, turns out my left shoulder feels almost entirely fine.
3x85 lbs, under 6 RPE
3x95 lbs, under 6 RPE
8x105 lbs, 9 RPE
Felt good enough to hit some joker sets
3x110 lbs, 9 RPE
3x115 lbs, 9 RPE
3x120 lbs, 9-10 RPE
5x8x85 lbs, 7 through to 9 RPE, first time my left shoulder hurt a little, but much better than last week.
30x110 lbs calf raises between FSL sets
3x12 dips
Jump rope between sets leg-to-leg 150, double unders 10
Kroc rows
100 lbs x 26/arm
Trap bar shrugs
3x12x308 lbs
Tired today, but not surprising since I didn’t sleep well. Also hungry AF, so I’m guessing that new deficit is starting to kick in.
Very glad I’ve got Plazma to take me through squats today.
That bored at work I did a theory exercise and set up a conjugate cycle. Not sure if I got it right.
Week 1
Monday - ME lower
Wednesday - DE upper
Friday - ME upper
Week 2
Monday - DE lower
Wednesday - ME upper
Friday - DE upper
Week 3
Monday - ME lower
Wednesday - DE lower
Friday - ME upper
Week 4
Monday - DE lower
Wednesday - ME lower
Friday - DE upper
Week 5
Deload
Week 6
Test
All the RE work would be done on ME and DE days, probably three exercises targeting weaknesses and keeping the rest rest up to speed. No need for setsxreps, just total reps (50 or 100 to start with).
ME days would be working up to a max five, three and then one. DE would be 10x2 at 55, 57.5 and 60 per cent, for lower followed with 10x2 DL variation light enough for speed and weak point work.
ME work would use strength builders for weeks one to four, and a tester in week six. For squat, since I fall forward I’d use a GM variation to build (I’m thinking standing or seated with squat bar) and to test wrapped SSB squat to a max single. For bench, since I fail in the mid range I’d use Spoto presses and test with comp pause bench. To test DL I’d use comp DL.
DE work I’d use to keep in my comp groove since I’m raw, so paused squats with comp bar placement and stance and bench paused bench with comp grip. I’d also do deficit DL after squat as my weakness is generally off the floor.
I’d keep military press as assistance on upper days at least once a week, ditto Kroc rows. Otherwise RE work would hit quads, hams, lower back and upper back mostly.
After testing, I’d evaluate what had changed and pick new ME lifts accordingly (same for RE, although military press would be a permanent fixture). For DE I’d probably keep things broadly similar or exactly the same, but reset percentages based on my test weights.
As I got better at bench, I’d start using floor presses and board work for ME days. For DE I’d probably use a lot of paused work, and gradually add in bands.
@Destrength @max13 is this vaguely on the right track?
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Not going to change from 5/3/1 right now, but want to learn more about Conjugate. And others…time to start reading again!
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Did not want to train today. Had no love for the barbell. But, once the bar was on my back I came good. Plazma also helped a bunch.
Calorie deficit definitely kicking in. Hungry a lot today, and pretty ravenous after training. Doesn’t seem like my strength is being affected too much so far though.
Despite that theoretical conjugate program, no way I’m changing from 531 any time soon. It’s just too much fun, in a sick and twisted kind of way. Never thought I’d say it, but I like reps.
Today’s training
Agile 8 plus shoulders
Squat
Started using wrist wraps after reading a Swede Burns article about them. They may indeed help. As if he wouldn’t be right about this.
10 TRX fatman pull-ups between first three warm-up sets
3x335 lbs, under 6 RPE, open belt
3x379 lbs, under 6 RPE
12x429 lbs, 10 RPE - hardest physical thing I’ve ever done.
From the tenth rep onwards I legitimately thought I was going to choke, vomit or pass out. After the eleventh my legs went all jelly for a moment, but I wanted that twelfth rep even though I wasn’t sure I’d be able to get back up. Credit to Tom for knowing exactly what to say and when. He narrowly missed a 638 pull on grip today, just short of lockout. Dude is 19. Training mentality of a 30 year old. Also on 531.
Oly shoes go on
3x5x335 lbs, close stance open belt, 8 RPE across
Supersetted with 15x220 short ROM hack squats. Might keep doing that. No way I was going to do five sets though. That plus set drained me.
Then, for the challenge thread:
51 bodyweight 45 degree back raises
“ME days… max 5, 3 then 1” Do you mean in one day, or do you mean one week 5 one week 3 one week 1? If the latter then yeah that’s a really common way to start getting into conjugate. If the former that is more of a guideline for warm ups, than anything else. It is normal to warm up on ME day doing fives until fives start to get hard, then threes until threes start to get hard, then go up to your max singles, or the same to get up to a max set of three or the same except keeping fives for a max set of five. The percentages for speed work also look good, general rule of thumb is to follow prillipin’s table and keep all of the weight fast but still take effort to go fast on the last couple of weeks. DE work can be variations as you mentioned pause work, and it can also be competition lifts to competition form. I would recommend staying away from accommodating resistance until you get really good at using straight weight for DE work.
For RE work, the 50-100 is good for smaller exercises. I recommend (normally) hitting a secondary exercise after ME/DE work meant for driving your competition and special exercise strength up and keeping a strict progression like adding sets, adding reps, adding weight etc for as many weeks possible until changing to a different progression or exercise. For ME day bench I like stuff like DB bench, heavy tricep extensions (roll back or JM press), dips, stuff like that which is still compound-ish and takes a lot of effort for higher reps/less intensity, but still doesn’t cause a lot of joint stress and doesn’t pose a risk of injury. While after DE work exercise like overhead press, close grip bench, floor press (essentially anything you could use for ME exercises) for moderate intensity/moderate volume is good.
The frequency seems really low though, you should be able to do your ME day 72 hours after DE day and vice versa if you want, though if you don’t really flourish on a lot of frequency/volume you could just build up to it.
And for overhead press, it’s whatever really. I never really found a benefit other than being well rounded, but it doesn’t take much recovery and it is a good way to build mass on your shoulders and triceps while not having to do the same bench/tricep extension pattern exercises.
Also stay away from most GM exercises for ME. Unless you are doing them off of pins/chains (always do chains if possible) then they are just too damn easy to cheat, and cheating good mornings for maximal weight is a good way to need an expensive spinal surgery. Good mornings are really awesome after either max effort or dynamic effort (following the same pattern as what I mentioned for upperbody) though. Stuff like concentric only and squat mornings are good for heavier weight while strict normal good mornings are good for volume. Also back and abs. Back and abs every lower day.
For raw lifting: always keep at least one free squat ME exercise in rotation, for bench try to hit a full range of motion at least every 2 ME days.
And as a last tip: keep good PR records, and try to keep track of what ME/assistance exercises seem to go up with your comp lift and what doesn’t.
/wall of text
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@Destrength thanks for taking the time to write all that. It’s awesome. With that, I could actually build a workable conjugate cycle.
I won’t yet, I’m enjoying and benefiting from 531 too much, but I can guarantee I’ll be setting out possible conjugate cycles along the way.
You’re welcome, mate. Just ask anytime if you need help with your conjugate programming, it has a steep learning curve, but the programming is great. I am especially good at the bench programming, as you could probably tell with how disproportionally strong it is.
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Looks good to me @MarkKO. @Destrength covered most of the bases as far 72 hours work spacing between upper and lower workouts etc. 3 sessions per week conjugate cycles have been run and yours looks pretty good. You definitely have enough experience and knowlege of your lifts and weak points to be successful with this type of system but a lot of it will depend on how well you can self-diagnose new issues as they arise and do what is necessary to correct them. Thats where a coach or training partner definitely helps. I understood conjugate a lot better after doing a meet prep with a coach. Looks good though!
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@max13 thanks. You’re bang on, it’s the self diagnosis that’s probably where I’d fall over.
Plus, I never thought of the 72 hour rule despite being aware of it - so whenever I do set out version two I’ll have four days a week like I do now, which would be better anyway.
The way things are looking, I’ll keep refining how I’d set up a conjugate program and then at whatever point I decide I need a break from 531 it’ll be ready to go. As it is, I’m learning more doing 531 than I ever have doing my own programming.
Bored AF at work so checked my next cycle. I think I’ll really ease BB bench back in instead of going straight to what I was doing before my left shoulder and bicep got injured.
So, I’ll do BB bench for my 531 and any joker sets; keep DBs for my FSL sets; and keep DBs for my benching after press on Mondays.
Shoulder note: bit stiff this morning but eased up after the theraband work. Left bicep feels off still, but that really does seem to be the way of it: as the pain around my acromion decreases, the bicep pain becomes noticeable. Except, it isn’t pain as such, just a feeling of not being right which is better (I guess). Either way, things seek to be slowly mending which is all I can ask for given I’m not prepared to take a complete break - I also think I don’t need to take a break.
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you thought about doing DBs for 531 sets, and do 3 lighter FSL sets on BB bench for a cycle, lighter weight and more reps to ease yourself back into it? Just an idea
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I hadn’t, and I can see the merit. I’m very keen to BB bench with heavier loads to test how my BB bench has gone though. I’ll bear that in mind however, because it is a good idea.
Week 3 -531 week
Crazy hungry yesterday evening. Got through it, but it was a hit of a shock.
Also, fucked up today. Ego got in the way and I tried a joker set and failed. Twice. Ashamed and angry for trying when I knew I shouldn’t. I should know better.
Noticing that I’m finding it harder to hit rep PRs on the press. I’m getting them, but by one usually and not regularly. That’s despite a reset, so I think maybe my press is starting to slow down a little. My squat and DL are going up and my DB (and hopefully BB) bench is going well, so it makes sense.
Left shoulder stiff today and bicep feeling off. Mind also a bit all over the place for some reason.
Today’s training
Agile 8 plus shoulders
Press
20 pull aparts with rotation between first three warm-up sets.
5x132 lbs, under 6 RPE
3x155 lbs, 6-7 RPE
7x170 lbs, 10 RPE - first four felt great, then my right shoulder and upper back just kind of switched off.
Stupidity starts
1x187 lbs, 8-9 RPE
0x203 lbs
0x203 lbs
Both times got to my sticking point and my right side just shut down.
5x7x132 lbs, 7 to 8 RPE
5x30x110 lbs calf raises between FSL sets
Tried a narrow grip on my third FSL set but my elbows didn’t like it much.
Supersetted 70 lbs DB bench/65 lbs DB chest supported rows
3x10/12
Left shoulder/bicep pissed off during first set of DB bench but calmed down by the second.
Really didn’t want to jump rope so did incline treadmill walking instead:
20 minutes at 15 degrees, pace 3.7
I quite enjoyed it. I’ll add a chain next time.
Here are some blurry progress shots
I’m guessing 22.5 to 23% bodyfat
@dt79 @BOTSLAYER @The_Myth you guys know about this, around there? Last BIA was just above 23% about six weeks ago.
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Figured out why my right shoulder area kept switching off. Woke up this morning having slept on my right arm. It was numb and shoulder hurt.
Thumbs up for them sexy leg shots.
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Thanks mate! They’re coming along. Body composition is taking its sweet time but given how fucking hungry I’ve been this past week I should see some progress there soon too.
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Yeah should be around there. You have A LOT of mass on your quads.
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