Woke at 183.9 lbs and looking good, very full. Hydrated like a crazy man yesterday. Combine that with salty food and ta-da…
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Oh, and had a little thought.
I might try doing ROM for my Monday bench back off sets. I figure, why not? It’ll get heavier loads in my hands and definitely hit my triceps. So I’m thinking along the lines of 308 lbs, start at a couple of inches shy off lockout, go down an inch every three to four weeks.
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Just realised that I’m ‘meant’ to run Training Maximally in seven week cycles upping TM every three weeks - which I’d planned on doing during peaking anyway simply because of the time.
I’m not going to do it apart from that though. I won’t deload as such in week four, but I’ll keep the four week cycle and increase TM every fifth week. I like the idea of having four weeks at one weight to really get comfortable with it.
Now, just a few notes, partially to self.
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ROM progression for Monday backoff sets.
Start during peaking - ie Monday week - at 308 lbs around two to three inches short of lockout. Reps is meh right now, I’m thinking the usual five to eight but that’ll obviously be subject to review. -
This coming week Monday backoff sets usual CGBP to one-board. If I do any, that is.
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Back to ROM progression, whether or not I drop down a pin during peaking depends on how I feel. Peaking is six weeks so if by week three I’m feeling strong at the initial pin height, I’ll go down.
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Definitely going to run two DE-style squat waves in the post DL slot during peaking. Can’t really think of anything better than 15x2 SSB for weeks one to three followed by 15x2 squat bar paused for weeks four to six. After the meet I’ll probably revert to higher reps for four weeks or so but I’ll figure that out later.
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Thursday is definitely firming up to be bench variation day. Right now I have no reason to think of switching out CGBP, but when I do I’m thinking floor press - possibly normal grip first, then moving it close in. Again, that’ll happen when I feel like CGBP isn’t working as a bench driver any more.
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Pressing after bench during peaking: pretty sure I’ll move back to log press for the first three weeks at least, but I’ll keep them strict and probably still in the 5x5 scheme. Why? I like log press. Seated press is interesting and I’ll do it tomorrow but I’m almost certain I cut my natural ROM down compared to standing which I don’t like so I think I’ll be sparing in how I use it.
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Just read an amazing Dave Tate article on the EFS site about supplemental and assistance work. I finally understand the difference, applications, etc. Turns out my programming has evolved basically to what Dave advises, which is kind of cool - but I now have a better understanding of why I’ve ended up doing it.
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Jim Wendler for primary, Dave Tate for assistance. Is that what your saying?
I haven’t read much from Tate.
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Sort of. Wendler if you want it all laid out, Tate if you want a system you have to think to use. I think Dave never found he needed to go past the conjugate system, and is able to adapt it to whatever ends required. Apart from Louie Simmons himself, I don’t think there is anyone who understands or implements that system better. Jim seems to have moved away from it more and more, but also his more recent material seems much more geared towards building overall athleticism; and while the 5/3/1 principles are sound and applicable to virtually any training the actual system seems to be becoming more and more set in each template. I mean, everything I’ve seen Jim say about the new book is that it requires zero thought, and has guidelines for how to pick which template to run. It seems to be taking the individual’s ability to think out of the equation - and given how frequently butchered 5/3/1 gets and how many idiotic questions Jim gets asked I’m hardly surprised he went down that road.
Don’t get me wrong, I love 5/3/1 and owe my best progress to Jim’s work. However, without actually having read the new book (that’s a huge caveat right there, because @T3hPwnisher and @littlesleeper both have much good to say about it and I respect their opinions very highly), apart from BBB, FSL multiple sets, total reps for assistance and Triumvirate I think for me at least after a year or so you end up needing to strip away everything but the principles and build your own version of their implementation or you get caught up in trying to figure out how to execute Jim’s vision of the system rather than applying the system to your goals and needs.
I’m trying hard to express this properly, hopefully I’m managing.
Honestly, the Training Maximally system from Beyond is basically what Tate is talking about, except Jim doesn’t mention builder lifts (more of a Westside approach there) or go into detail about supplemental and assistance work, but he states very clearly in the introduction that it is a) a system having roots in 5/3/1 that is very different to it and b) only for someone who already knows how they need to train who will know exactly how to program supplementals and assistance. I’m taking a punt that I fit that second criteria by doing it, in the hope that if I’m not quite there yet using Training Maximally will push me to get there.
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Meant to add to those notes, on Tuesday I’m going to pull sumo as long as I can, hopefully all sets. It’ll be my last day on the stiff bar until post meet.
Have you done a lot of partials training before? I find it beats my elbows up to no extent especially midway through. I love deadstop presses right above the chest, but I find it really uncomfortable to do anything lower than lockouts.
I have no experience with partials at all. I figured I’d give them a go because I’ve got enough bench volume I can afford to spend some on experiments without too high a risk of derailing things.
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In my opinion it’s a really good thing if you have to think about how you’ll set up your program when you are following one.
That’s why I prefer DC over the cookie cutter programs you see on M&S and other magazines
Just the fact that you have the freedom of choosing your own exercises (instead of being told to do bench and cable crossovers) BUT it’s limited to one exercise per bodypart in a session
So if you have a weak chest you’ll have to think how you are going to overcome that using the principles of the method
So, in DC, for example you should go for exercises that put a lot on stress on chest even yiu are deciding movements for other muscles
So you may do really high incline presses for shoulders (to hit the upper chest as well)
And you should probably do close grip bench, dips and reverse grip bench for triceps.
Really, that’s important to me. If I have a grab-and-go program I don’t have that freedom, I don’t have to think about it
And even more importantly, in readily made programs there is no individualism, the program does not look like you
So yeah, training methods that force you to think are nice
What a day, I’m rambling on other people’s logs
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I finally dove into 5/3/1 in December and ran it for 7 or 8 cycles; however, I changed templates or changed my own stuff nearly every cycle trying to find something I actually liked. I’ve always used more dumbbells and cables than barbells in my training because it’s joint friendly and allows me to control the range of motion and move in a manner that will benefit the muscle the most. This is mostly the reason that I’m not hitting the 3/4/5 marks that I’d like–I haven’t spent enough time under the bar for those specific movements…and that’s okay.
The 5/3/1 progression and principles for the main movements are great. I can’t say I feel the same about the assistance/supplemental stuff. I’m not a fan of doing more barbell pressing after doing it for the main lift. I’m also not a fan of his assistance suggestions—just get in reps however you can.
If you read any of CT’s stuff (especially lately) then you know that you can achieve the same hypertrophy gains from going to failure regardless of how many reps it takes to get there. But, the longer it takes to get there, the more energy you burn and the more likely you will dip into glycogen stores. If you dip into glycogen stores then your body has to release cortisol to break that down for energy. Cortisol is catabolic. When you’re lifting weights and trying to be anabolic I don’t think it’s ideal to release a catabolic hormone while you’re training.
That’s why I think how you do your assistance work is very important. Is it really beneficial to do 5x10 when I can reach fatigue/failure in 3 sets? Would I benefit more from 5x10 or 2x6 plus a final all-out double rest/pause set? I think the latter uses less energy and achieves the same goal and quite possibly results in more strength gains. Ah…found this…
Back to my rant… what’s the point of the assistance work in 5/3/1? 50-100 rows or chins… why? I don’t think it’s to improve your deadlift; it’s bodybuilding work to maintain balance in the body.
I think each person needs to assess their needs and program their assistance accordingly. If you want a wider back then doing copious amounts of pull-ups might not be the answer. Horizontal pulling might be the answer. But don’t do it haphazardly just to do it. Plan it. It’s possible to increase muscle size and get stronger. Recently I’ve been trying CT’s wave loading and using the 5/4/3/ rep scheme. Here’s a simple example:
100x5
110x4
120x3
Start over with the weight from your 2nd set
110x5
120x4
130x3
Stop.
That’s 24 reps with moderate to heavy loads. If you can get more than 3 on your last set then the weight you used was too light and/or it’s time to move up. I think using approaches like that are much more effective than just aiming for total reps. After all, we are talking about 5/3/1. The goal is strength. So why not use assistance work that helps with that?
I’ve found that with most of my templates I ran 5/3/1 for my main movements and then got completely away from the rest of Jim’s stuff for the rest of my training sessions. I got involved in the 5/3/1 threads and people like to say you’re not doing the program because it’s not what Jim said but I don’t really care. I’m doing my version because I know my body better than some book.
I actually tried some of the templates as written but it just doesn’t work. It’s not shoulder friendly for me to do the 5/3/1 pressing workout and then do 5x10 with more OHP. A recent article on CT’s Thib Army blog said that only about 25% of your shoulder work needs to be (or should be) pressing. This was geared towards the average person and not on setting OHP records. I think it’s worth considering in your training. When I train my shoulders, what’s my goal? I want to be strong but I’d also like my delts to look like bowling balls. I can develop the delts with non-pressing movements like lateral raises. If I successfully get them to grow then I can focus a bit more on pressing for a period and use the added mass to bump of my numbers.
My point is that it’s good to think outside the box when it comes to following a program. “Well the program says to do 5x10 on DB rows but my upper back is feeling weak on my deadlifts…perhaps I could do a different movement that will hit that area… like face pulls or reverse fly’s.” (or even 3x10 on rows and 3x10 on reverse fly’s)
@MarkKO, I’m glad you have a large following here and I’m glad that you’re not sticking to someone else’s template in a book. You’re showing people real results with a personalized approach and sharing your thoughts on each session. Hopefully people can follow your lead and learn to find their own path instead of being restrained by someone else’s “program”.
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Is your dumbell strength at a level your happy with though?
It’s pretty good. It’s not at my best levels but I bounce back and forth between DB’s and barbell enough that I never really peak at one or the other. I just added DB incline yesterday and have only been doing bench for the past couple months. I’ve been doing standing DB military pretty consistently and I’ve been hitting 70’s for my last set most days. I could probably do more if I stopped when my elbows hit 90 degrees but I like the full ROM.
Last year my main focuses (when I actually had one) were front squat, power clean, and push press at various times. I hit 315 on power clean (but I’m not happy with form so I’m rebuilding that now), hit 245 on push press, and 275 on front squat. I was happy with all of those numbers.
My new goal is to hit 315 on bench so I have to prioritize the barbell obviously. Even when I have a strength goal I’m still highly attentive to bodybuilding work. I can’t help myself. I train to look good but also want to be able to perform as well as I look. I think my physique speaks for itself. You can tell I’ve prioritized bodybuilding over pure strength. I’m leaner and more athletic looking than these beasts like Mark, Punisher, etc. and the lifting numbers show that.
3/4/5 goals have always been in the back of my mind but I’ve never truly chased them. I’m hoping to change that this year… maybe in a couple years I’ll have the physique I want along with the strength.
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Woke at 183.3 lbs. Slept well and long. Good start to the week.
@Frank_C your points about assistance are excellent. I hadn’t looked at them that way at all, but you’re one hundred per cent correct. It’s also interesting to me because that mentality has been trickling into my assistance gradually. I personally like doing lots of reps, but there is much to be said for learning how to feel a muscle working at least on some exercises.
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I view muscle groups in terms of their function. If it’s a postural muscle then I don’t mind doing low intensity volume because it’s more relevant to how that muscle works every day. If it’s a muscle that can be used to generate max power or strength in real life movements then I like to train it for strength and/or hypertrophy. Lately I’ve become a fan of hitting those rep ranges that accomplish both such as the 5/4/3 waves. I’ll also do 7/5/3 waves which lean more towards hypertrophy.
We have too many other responsibilities to just be mindlessly throwing around weights in the gym. Everything has a purpose or it’s a waste of time.
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There’s also merit in that. My thinking is different in that I look mostly at main lifts, although I’m starting to look at body parts as well.
What I’m leaning towards now is this kind of broad approach:
- main lift: technique and progressive overload
- supplemental: progressive overload and technique
- assistance: feeling the muscle(s) I’m trying to build
Upper and middle back is probably the only part where I look at feeling it and progressively overloading as well.
I had a thought about the 5/3/1 high rep assistance approach: I think it’s Jim way of getting around the probability that the majority of people haven’t a clue how to train a muscle, so he figures worst case scenario if you throw that much volume at it at least some of it should stick and drive growth.
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Today’s training
Lazy lifter plus shoulders
TM is 242 lbs
Worked up from bar in 22 lbs to 60%, 20 lull aparts between sets
Worked on keeping my head down as suggested by Mike Carroll.
3x165 lbs, under 6 RPE
3x192 lbs, under 6 RPE
1x214 lbs, 6 RPE
4x242 lbs, 10 RPE - head came up last two reps
2x258 lbs, 10 RPE
CGBP to one board 3x8x154 lbs, under 6 to 6 RPE
Very happy with how bench is going so far
Seated press
5x110 lbs, 2x5x121 lbs, 5x132 lbs, 6x132 lbs
Really don’t like how they make my shoulders feel. Starting press variations only from now, certainly with a barbell if not DBs.
Strict BB row
20x132 lbs, 2x12x154 lbs
After the CT article about training to failure decided to have a crack with bis/tris
BB preacher curls at 88 lbs, five second eccentric: 9, 5, 9
DB skull crushers at 40 lbs, slow eccentric: 9, 5, 9
Definitely felt my biceps a heap. Triceps too, but elbows possibly not the biggest fans of the slow skull crushers. Went as close to failure as possible.
Jeremy saw me during training, asked how my weight was and when I said it was pretty steady. He suggested a skipload if only to get my leptin levels going again. The key, he said, is not having it when you’re craving it; and not doing it at set times so your body doesn’t get used to it. He also said it’s often best day the day before a heavy day. DL is tomorrow, so…
Checked myself out in the gym locker room mirror and I looked as good as I’ve ever seen. Very pleased. I trust Jeremy completely in matters of nutrition, so I had no issue in following through with his suggestion.
As far as I’m concerned Burger Hero makes the best burgers in Canberra. Also chilli cheese fries. Time for a visit.
Turns out the foil wrapped burger, their double cheeseburger, is impressive. Just shy of a pound of beef across four patties, with special sauce, cheese, pickles and red onions. About as perfect a burger as I’ve had. Glad I stared on the smaller one.
Nearly managed all the chilli cheese fries, and all but one of the hedgehog slices. Not sure if you get those in the US and Canada. They’re essentially a heavy, quite crumbly chocolate cake with pieces of biscuit in it covered in chocolate icing with flaked almonds. I’m quite a fan.
Surprisingly didn’t feel anything other than satisfied and quite full by the end. No idea how many calories, I’m estimating between 3500-5000 calories.
How I look and feel over the next few days will be interesting. This will definitely hold me for a few weeks.
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Nice meal! Looks like something I’d enjoy. What’s skipload? Clearly it looks like a cheat meal but are there any specifics to it? Emphasis on carbs or is that just how it turned out (and usually does with cheat meals)?
Do you find these better than deadstop or pin press for Close grip?