Mark McGwire Admits to Steroid Use

Off Topic
21

[quote]bignate wrote:
its not really news but by the public just drawing more attention to steriods than there needs to be is what causes kids to want them to some degree
“o my favorite sports star used roids so should i”
if the public wants to do any good they need to let go and just do this privately no need to go public with all this[/quote]

Retarded.

Parents or people with sufficient knowledge should be educating children (and adults) about steroids so they understand why they should not take them until a certain age. You cant just brush something as pervasive as performance enhancing drugs under the rug and hope kids don’t hear about them. And there’s always the internet.

Do you really believe that promoting ignorance is the right way to handle this situation?

22

No, but parents are dumb as fuck many kids do these drugs because of pressures from their parents.

23

[quote]drewh wrote:
No, but parents are dumb as fuck many kids do these drugs because of pressures from their parents. [/quote]

I could see that…BUT that is only a sliver of the pressures for young athletes. BUT a good majority of that pressure does start with parents you try to “groom” their kids for a particular sport,etc.

24

[quote]Therizza wrote:
These guys should not be considered “tainted” for using. If everyone was clean, they would still be the best. [/quote]

Couldnt have said it better. its not like he was a 90lbs weakling with the coordination of a new born deer before he started using. The sour grapes attitude about it comes from people who could shoot a kilogram a week and still never reach that level. Its not talent in a vial

25

[quote]drewh wrote:
No, but parents are dumb as fuck many kids do these drugs because of pressures from their parents. [/quote]

You don’t plan to have kids, right?

26

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Steroids cannot help you with pitch selection or bat speed,[/quote]

I tell people this and they think am crazy. The people that never played the game always think that steriods is what helped Barry hit all of thoughs HR’s. It’s years of experience at the plate that helped him.

IMO
[/quote]

Barry Bonds own leaked grand jury testimony proves your assumptions to be incorrect. He, along with people I personally know who used HGH while playing with and against me in college, openly admitted that he felt the HGH had improved his eyesight and that he could noticeably track the ball out of the pitcher’s hand better.

Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site. I was and still am a huge Barry Bonds fan, but it’s clear that he used steroids and that they helped improve his onfield performance.

27

WAIT!

Did you guys hear Michael Jackson died?

28

[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
WAIT!

Did you guys hear Michael Jackson died?[/quote]

Now that you mention it, I DID hear something about that! Apparently, the rumor going around on the Internet is that he choked to death on your fucking cock.

29

The efficacy of PED’s towards sports performance isn’t even up for debate, pro athletes(or, the people they pay to advise them) don’t play around with their hormones on some kind of whim that “this dude used them and it maybe did something.”

30

[quote]artw wrote:
Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site.[/quote]

Guess I should read more articles on steroids.

31

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]artw wrote:
Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site.[/quote]

Guess I should read more articles on steroids.[/quote]

No. You should read more articles about generating power and speed.

32

[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
WAIT!

Did you guys hear Michael Jackson died?[/quote]

He would still be alive if he had taken steroids!

33

Remember he use to say he was taking Andro 6

34

[quote]artw wrote:

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Steroids cannot help you with pitch selection or bat speed,[/quote]

I tell people this and they think am crazy. The people that never played the game always think that steriods is what helped Barry hit all of thoughs HR’s. It’s years of experience at the plate that helped him.

IMO
[/quote]

Barry Bonds own leaked grand jury testimony proves your assumptions to be incorrect. He, along with people I personally know who used HGH while playing with and against me in college, openly admitted that he felt the HGH had improved his eyesight and that he could noticeably track the ball out of the pitcher’s hand better.

Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site. I was and still am a huge Barry Bonds fan, but it’s clear that he used steroids and that they helped improve his onfield performance. [/quote]

I am going to go ahead and disagree with this. If they do so insanely improve your vision and bat speed, why wasn’t everyone pumping out 75 home runs per year? Because I’m pretty sure that almost everyone was taking the same things. And how does someone saying that they “felt” improved eyesight or bat speed prove it to be true? Statements of feeling don’t equal facts.

And pulling out the “you must haven’t read a single article” card is pretty weak. I have read my fair share of articles on here, and I am hard pressed to remember an interview in which a current or former PED user raved about their improved eye sight or improved intuition into recognizing pitch sequences.

There are plenty of steroid users whose names we will never know, because they never made it anywhere, and that is because they were not great athletes, not because they took the wrong PED’s.

35

One intriguing argument that I have heard is the correlation between steroid use and the ability to play more overall games. If athletes are using steroids to recover from injury faster, then they are essentially being given the ability to play in more games than athletes 50 years ago. Some would argue, that as a result of steroid use, McGuire had a definite advantage over Aaron, as he could miss fewer games due to injury, thus gaining more attempts to jack balls out of the park. I think this is a fair argument.

Just to play devils advocate, though, I bet Aaron never saw pitch speeds or velocity that McGuire faced as a result of pitchers using PED’s just as much as hitter did in the steroid era.

36

Big Mac is my favorite baseball player, baseball has gone downhill sickenly fast since the 98 season. Back then i had to watch every single baseball game Big Mac played in, the race for the record that season was in my opinion the peak in baseball’s recent history. All those idiots in the recent years hunting down the very players they held up and put on a pedestal for so many years have ruined baseball, not the players that made it exciting.

If bonds, mcgwire, sosa, rodriquez, clemens to name a few, don’t get into the hall of fame within 5 years of their retirement max, or at all, it would prove in my opinion that baseball is a crock of shit. Baseball is not america’s pastime, and hasn’t been for many many years. I would venture a guess to say close to 40 ish years. Football or nascar would take the cake for americas pastime.

I don’t mean to offend anyone, if you like baseball then awesome, i still like to watch the highlights, but that is about it.

I am just pissed off at the witch hunt that has ensued and effectively ruined baseball in my opinion, and also resulted in the ban of some really good ephedrine supplements not to mention the questionable pro hormones. The stupidity of it all baffles me. Some of you might feel the same way, but i hate it when stupid imbeciles that know nothing about the subject matter which they meddle with aren’t intelligent enough to mess with it. Whenever i read about the “dangers” of peds, it usually seems to be coming from someone with gigantic jowls or otherwise obvious lack of fitness. I don’t seem to hear about all those dangers from fit people that actually know what they are talking about, only ways of utilizing said product safely and effectively. There are a number of you that are very knowledgeble on the subject. Every single politician should focus on what then need to focus on, i don’t think i need to list what those are. Okay this is a sore spot, time to take some valerian root and move on. /rant

37

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]artw wrote:

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Steroids cannot help you with pitch selection or bat speed,[/quote]

I tell people this and they think am crazy. The people that never played the game always think that steriods is what helped Barry hit all of thoughs HR’s. It’s years of experience at the plate that helped him.

IMO
[/quote]

Barry Bonds own leaked grand jury testimony proves your assumptions to be incorrect. He, along with people I personally know who used HGH while playing with and against me in college, openly admitted that he felt the HGH had improved his eyesight and that he could noticeably track the ball out of the pitcher’s hand better.

Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site. I was and still am a huge Barry Bonds fan, but it’s clear that he used steroids and that they helped improve his onfield performance. [/quote]

I am going to go ahead and disagree with this. If they do so insanely improve your vision and bat speed, why wasn’t everyone pumping out 75 home runs per year? Because I’m pretty sure that almost everyone was taking the same things. And how does someone saying that they “felt” improved eyesight or bat speed prove it to be true? Statements of feeling don’t equal facts.

And pulling out the “you must haven’t read a single article” card is pretty weak. I have read my fair share of articles on here, and I am hard pressed to remember an interview in which a current or former PED user raved about their improved eye sight or improved intuition into recognizing pitch sequences.

There are plenty of steroid users whose names we will never know, because they never made it anywhere, and that is because they were not great athletes, not because they took the wrong PED’s.[/quote]

The right dose of GH will improve eyesight. It’ll tone the muscles(?) that control the depth focus. Whether this is an age related thing, I don’t know.

No one else was hitting 70 homers because no one else was that good and went on a tear like that for a whole season.

PED’s made the players who used them better. Barry Bonds without steroids would have been a great player. A hall of famer. Would he have been the best hitter of all time without steroids? Nope.

There is also a difference between the random shmoes who did a few cycles of winstrol and guys like Giambi and Bonds who had knowledgeable people like Victor Conte advising them what to use. Arod claim to have injected Primobolan once every few weeks. If that’s the case, he wasn’t getting nearly the same results as Bonds or Giambi who were applying transdermal testosterone on schedule. Unless Arod was injecting a gram of Primo at a time he wasn’t seeing the benefits normally associated with PED use. The same way there are 160lb tools in your gym who use steroids there are idiots playing baseball doing the same thing. This isn’t as black and white as “He did drugs so everything he did is a sham”. (not all of this is directed at you btw and some of it is just my opinion obviously)

38

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Well…say it ain’t so,Mark.

Mark McGwire finally came clean Monday, admitting he used steroids when he broke Baseball’s Home run record in 1998.

I guess getting snubbed for HOF made him come clean. Sucks for him…[/quote]

His lie in deflecting suspicion of his steroid use by letting reports “find” a bottle of androstenedione in his locker and attributing his results to that was the start of the movement against prohormones.

I don’t feel sorry for him. It was snake-like of him to concoct this lie. I am not saying he was obligated to admit to using anabolic steroids – no one is obligated to confess to an illegal act – but that does not exonerate him from that particular deception.[/quote]

I don’t feel sorry for him either, but damn, I’m not mad at him like you are Bill. I’ve never been in that situation so I can’t say if I’d have acted the same way, I’d like to think I would have come clean about this stuff but I’ll never know. [/quote]

I’m not “mad” at him with regard to having any such emotion.

However I do have a bias: MAG-10 was worth a lot of money to me and, while a prohormone ban likely would have eventually come without McGwire’s lie, I fully expect he hastened the prohormone ban by a year or more.

Prior to his scheme to pin his obvious steroid results on androstenedione, the public had never heard of it and there was no political interest in banning the substances. He personally accomplished the start of that, for no reason other than having thought up a lie and having thought it up quick.

At the time Congress was considering the ban and working on bills for it, the one substance that particularly drove the ban, and really the only one they were familiar with (based on discussions) was androstenedione. And that, from Mark McGwire. Whose results, whether muscle mass, bloated facial appearance, or added home runs were not due to androstenedione.

39

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]artw wrote:

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Steroids cannot help you with pitch selection or bat speed,[/quote]

I tell people this and they think am crazy. The people that never played the game always think that steriods is what helped Barry hit all of thoughs HR’s. It’s years of experience at the plate that helped him.

IMO
[/quote]

Barry Bonds own leaked grand jury testimony proves your assumptions to be incorrect. He, along with people I personally know who used HGH while playing with and against me in college, openly admitted that he felt the HGH had improved his eyesight and that he could noticeably track the ball out of the pitcher’s hand better.

Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site. I was and still am a huge Barry Bonds fan, but it’s clear that he used steroids and that they helped improve his onfield performance. [/quote]

I am going to go ahead and disagree with this. If they do so insanely improve your vision and bat speed, why wasn’t everyone pumping out 75 home runs per year? Because I’m pretty sure that almost everyone was taking the same things. And how does someone saying that they “felt” improved eyesight or bat speed prove it to be true? Statements of feeling don’t equal facts.

And pulling out the “you must haven’t read a single article” card is pretty weak. I have read my fair share of articles on here, and I am hard pressed to remember an interview in which a current or former PED user raved about their improved eye sight or improved intuition into recognizing pitch sequences.

There are plenty of steroid users whose names we will never know, because they never made it anywhere, and that is because they were not great athletes, not because they took the wrong PED’s.[/quote]

The right dose of GH will improve eyesight. It’ll tone the muscles(?) that control the depth focus. Whether this is an age related thing, I don’t know.

No one else was hitting 70 homers because no one else was that good and went on a tear like that for a whole season.

PED’s made the players who used them better. Barry Bonds without steroids would have been a great player. A hall of famer. Would he have been the best hitter of all time without steroids? Nope.

There is also a difference between the random shmoes who did a few cycles of winstrol and guys like Giambi and Bonds who had knowledgeable people like Victor Conte advising them what to use. Arod claim to have injected Primobolan once every few weeks. If that’s the case, he wasn’t getting nearly the same results as Bonds or Giambi who were applying transdermal testosterone on schedule. Unless Arod was injecting a gram of Primo at a time he wasn’t seeing the benefits normally associated with PED use. The same way there are 160lb tools in your gym who use steroids there are idiots playing baseball doing the same thing. This isn’t as black and white as “He did drugs so everything he did is a sham”. (not all of this is directed at you btw and some of it is just my opinion obviously)[/quote]

I think your points are very well said, and I do agree with them. Such achievements come as a result of a combination of many things, PED’s being one of them, but pure talent and skill being one of them as well. If that is in fact true about PED’s and eye sight, then so be it, I am not as knowledgeable about PED’s as some of the rest of the members of this community.

I think the best point you made is that this issue isn’t black and white. That is what I was trying to get to by saying that PED’s can’t make average athletes great ones, but that they can make great ones even better.

I do agree that athletes who take PED’s gain definite advantages, but think that it’s simply ignorant to completely discount all of their accomplishments because of them.

Also, it should be pointed out that pitchers are equally as guilty in their use of PED’s during the steroid era, and batters had to face pitch speeds that were unheard of 50 years ago. The playing field was being leveled as best as it could be.

40

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]artw wrote:

[quote]ron-e wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Steroids cannot help you with pitch selection or bat speed,[/quote]

I tell people this and they think am crazy. The people that never played the game always think that steriods is what helped Barry hit all of thoughs HR’s. It’s years of experience at the plate that helped him.

IMO
[/quote]

Barry Bonds own leaked grand jury testimony proves your assumptions to be incorrect. He, along with people I personally know who used HGH while playing with and against me in college, openly admitted that he felt the HGH had improved his eyesight and that he could noticeably track the ball out of the pitcher’s hand better.

Steroids and/or HGH can certainly help improve bat speed as well, and if the reasons why need to be explained to you then you probably haven’t read a single article on this site. I was and still am a huge Barry Bonds fan, but it’s clear that he used steroids and that they helped improve his onfield performance. [/quote]

I am going to go ahead and disagree with this. If they do so insanely improve your vision and bat speed, why wasn’t everyone pumping out 75 home runs per year? Because I’m pretty sure that almost everyone was taking the same things. And how does someone saying that they “felt” improved eyesight or bat speed prove it to be true? Statements of feeling don’t equal facts.

And pulling out the “you must haven’t read a single article” card is pretty weak. I have read my fair share of articles on here, and I am hard pressed to remember an interview in which a current or former PED user raved about their improved eye sight or improved intuition into recognizing pitch sequences.

There are plenty of steroid users whose names we will never know, because they never made it anywhere, and that is because they were not great athletes, not because they took the wrong PED’s.[/quote]

The right dose of GH will improve eyesight. It’ll tone the muscles(?) that control the depth focus. Whether this is an age related thing, I don’t know.

No one else was hitting 70 homers because no one else was that good and went on a tear like that for a whole season.

PED’s made the players who used them better. Barry Bonds without steroids would have been a great player. A hall of famer. Would he have been the best hitter of all time without steroids? Nope.

There is also a difference between the random shmoes who did a few cycles of winstrol and guys like Giambi and Bonds who had knowledgeable people like Victor Conte advising them what to use. Arod claim to have injected Primobolan once every few weeks. If that’s the case, he wasn’t getting nearly the same results as Bonds or Giambi who were applying transdermal testosterone on schedule. Unless Arod was injecting a gram of Primo at a time he wasn’t seeing the benefits normally associated with PED use. The same way there are 160lb tools in your gym who use steroids there are idiots playing baseball doing the same thing. This isn’t as black and white as “He did drugs so everything he did is a sham”. (not all of this is directed at you btw and some of it is just my opinion obviously)[/quote]

I think your points are very well said, and I do agree with them. Such achievements come as a result of a combination of many things, PED’s being one of them, but pure talent and skill being one of them as well. If that is in fact true about PED’s and eye sight, then so be it, I am not as knowledgeable about PED’s as some of the rest of the members of this community.

I think the best point you made is that this issue isn’t black and white. That is what I was trying to get to by saying that PED’s can’t make average athletes great ones, but that they can make great ones even better.

I do agree that athletes who take PED’s gain definite advantages, but think that it’s simply ignorant to completely discount all of their accomplishments because of them.

Also, it should be pointed out that pitchers are equally as guilty in their use of PED’s during the steroid era, and batters had to face pitch speeds that were unheard of 50 years ago. The playing field was being leveled as best as it could be.[/quote]

50 years ago when they didn’t have radar guns? Or when the mound was lower? lol :wink:

Pitchers benefit too. No one argues otherwise. But I do think that the majority didn’t use. Out of the 750 major leaguers I’d be very surprised if more than 300 were using at any one point.