Marijuana Should Be Legal

[Zeppelin795]

Zeb:

So you want to study the possibilities of bringing back Prohibition? This statement certainly gives an insight to your mentality which is the same way of thinking that could eventually get supplements banned. Truly absurd!

You didn’t explicitly say you are morally superior but you implied it with your refer madness arguement. I suppose it’s only conservatives like you who have the fortitude to say no.

I know you are a bit older but if you were in a younger age bracket I think you would see how available drugs are and how this “war” does little if anything to stop them.

It is the balance of the war on drugs that counts - at least from a utilitarian arguement - and that balance sheet is weighed heavily in favor on the negative side. Most honest intellectuals from a broad range realize this. The gamut runs from Noam Chompsky to William F. Buckley Jr.

You say “we saw what happened with alcohol so why roll the dice?” My retort: we saw what happened with Prohibition so why roll the dice?

I do agree with you that if pot were legal the turf wars would still be there and that is why I’m in favor of legalisation across the board.

The reason why I think that people won’t need to kill or rob to buy their drug of choice is that it would be offered to them at cost at a designated state store. It would be practically nil. Futhermore your contention that more people would be desperate for pot -if it was legalised- because of it’s abundance is non-sensical. They would only be desperate if it was in short supply!

Your statement that there won’t be much left of society if all drugs are legal is just more of the refer madness mentality. Portugal has legalized everything and many other countries have far more relaxed laws then we do and they aren’t falling apart like you claim.

Let me ask you a question. Does one need to have first hand knowledge for something to be true? You spout off all kinds of things in this thread that YOU don’t have first hand knowledge of but somehow you take others for task for doing the same thing.

There are plenty of expose books on the subject of government involvement in drug trafficking but you won’t hear Rush or Fox News tell you so i suppose to you it can’t be true. Look beyond the NY Times best seller list and you may be surprised at what you find.

Being a victim of mass media propaganda is far more dangerous than any drug known to man.

[Gregus]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Don’t bother wasting your time arguing with Zeb. His mind is not capable of changing about any topic, it just aruges his points over and over ad naseum no matter how many times you may prove him wrong he’ll come back and say you did’t prove anything.

[ZEB]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Zeb:

So you want to study the possibilities of bringing back Prohibition? This statement certainly gives an insight to your mentality which is the same way of thinking that could eventually get supplements banned. Truly absurd![/quote]

Never said that, and I knew right where you were going when you asked that inane question…good try! Here is what I stated: “I would be for studying the possibilities…” The possibilities of various programs that would curb teen drinking etc. As far as supplements are concerned I assure you that I take more than you (vitamins, minerals, protein etc.) and the last thing I want is to see them banned.

You didn’t explicitly say you are morally superior but you implied it with your refer madness arguement. I suppose it’s only conservatives like you who have the fortitude to say no.

Because I am against the legalization of pot you think I am claiming moral superiority?

The first personal attack on this thread has been launched by you! I am simply debating a point. If you want to attack me personally for that it’s your choice. However, you only bring down the entire thread and I won’t participate in that.

I know you are a bit older but if you were in a younger age bracket I think you would see how available drugs are and how this “war” does little if anything to stop them.

I never implied that the current “war on drugs” was completely successful. I simply claim that making them legal will worsen the problem.

It is the balance of the war on drugs that counts - at least from a utilitarian arguement - and that balance sheet is weighed heavily in favor on the negative side. Most honest intellectuals from a broad range realize this. The gamut runs from Noam Chompsky to William F. Buckley Jr.

If you are losing a war you don’t surrender, you find ways to win!

I do agree with you that if pot were legal the turf wars would still be there and that is why I’m in favor of legalisation across the board.

You think that you are going to stop gang violence by making all drugs legal? I disagree. And you will create a very serious problem in this country far worse than it is now.

The reason why I think that people won’t need to kill or rob to buy their drug of choice is that it would be offered to them at cost at a designated state store. It would be practically nil. Futhermore your contention that more people would be desperate for pot -if it was legalised- because of it’s abundance is non-sensical. They would only be desperate if it was in short supply!

See my final post to ToShinDo for the four key reasons why legalization will fail miserably creating a pot problem to go along with alcohol problems. Prove to me that the four reasons are unimportant and then you will have my attention. At this point it seems you are simply beating a dead horse.

Your statement that there won’t be much left of society if all drugs are legal is just more of the refer madness mentality. Portugal has legalized everything and many other countries have far more relaxed laws then we do and they aren’t falling apart like you claim.

Portugal has decriminalized “some” drugs. Furthermore, the jury is still out on that as it is a fairly new law. Rome was not built in a day and no country crumbles in a couple of years. Time will show that they made the wrong move!

Let me ask you a question. Does one need to have first hand knowledge for something to be true? You spout off all kinds of things in this thread that YOU don’t have first hand knowledge of but somehow you take others for task for doing the same thing.

Do you have “first hand knowledge” that legalizing all drugs will make a better country? No of course not! First hand knowledge however does exist relative to my four points why making pot legal is a bad idea!

There are plenty of expose books on the subject of government involvement in drug trafficking but you won’t hear Rush or Fox News tell you so i suppose to you it can’t be true. Look beyond the NY Times best seller list and you may be surprised at what you find.

Yes, there are a number of books available that will speak to just about any issue that you want to read. As my Mother used to say: “paper refuses no ink.” Did you know that UFO’s landed and helped build the pyramids? It must be true I read it in a book!

I like to read credible authors, credible newspapers and journals and watch credible television (the latter being more difficult to find with each passing year).

Being a victim of mass media propaganda is far more dangerous than any drug known to man.

Well that silly statement is of course untrue as it relates to me.

[ZEB]

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Well golly, ZEB… then what’s with all the bullshit “pot supports terrorism” commercials? Come on, buddy! I’m not saying that the Fed is nothing but lies, but… sheesh! Right back at ya! Are you going to be able to look me in the eye, with a straight face, and say “Yes, lothario… pot smokers are supporting terrorism.”[/quote]

I’ll be honest with you I have never seen a “pot supports terrorism” commercial. Therefore, I cannot comment on such a thing.

You may not realize it, but this is very similar to making an argument against driving because of all the motorcycle fatalities we have in this country. Drugs have their uses, both positive and negative. It is not up to Momma Fed to decide our lives for us. This is an integral part of personal liberty (which I have a definite fondness for), and I would think that based on this idea, you of all people would be pro-legalization, just on principle. Oh well. You are very conservative, after all.

There are many laws that probably make you feel “less free.” Things like, motorcycle helmets, prostitution laws, seat belt laws, suicide laws, etc. I don’t like some of them but I think drugs need to be left illegal!

Again, we are seeing this issue through different lenses. I would love it if there were no stupid people clogging up my ER at all hours of the night… “Hey Bubba! Hold my beer while I mess with this poisonous snake in the yard!” (happens once a week in Tallahassee… we have a treatment protocol in place for all of the drunk 'necks who get bit by taunting pygmy rattlers… I’m not kidding)

YIKES!

[quote]But I can’t stop them. Passing more and more laws or keeping ridiculous restrictions that don’t work and cost 4 billion dollars a year and growing is not the answer to stupid people. I will tell you a secret:

If you want to stop stupid people, you don’t pass laws… you make fun of them. If I come home from the gym, and the house smells like reefer madness, I walk upstairs to the living room, point my finger at my functionally retarded roommate, and exclaim “you don’t even know your own name right now, you fucking idiot… no wonder you can’t ever get anything but the occasional fat chick!” And then all is right with the world. I laugh… he cries… and then the bong hits stop.[/quote]

If that could be successful on a large scale you would be a great drug czar! I would step down from that position and give it to you…lol

It’s the same thing with treating “suicide attempts”. These girls get dumped by their loser boyfriends and take three handfuls of aspirin. Then they call 911. What do we do? Make them miserable: pump their stomachs full of charcoal while telling them how smart they are, stick a tube up their nose, they puke all over themselves, all while we affirm that yes, they are morons and it “helped so much” to take a bunch of pills. After the drama, do we see that girl “crying for attention” again? Hell no! Tough love, man… it works.

I agree tough love does work! However, what would not work is making pot legal, it would fill your ER with even more stupid people. Stupid people who are now high!

[ZEB]

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
I finally finished reading all of the posts on this very long thread and wanted to chime in with some of my thoughts.[/quote]

Welcome!

First of all, ZEB, I don’t really see how you can say that insurance costs, medical cost, etc will increase. I just don’t see why this would be. Even if you could prove it too me, I don’t see why insurance companies couldn?t just decide to stop covering for expenses due to drug use or anything else for that matter.

That is a possiblity. However, what happens then? Does the good fairy pay for all of the extra costs? The medical visits, the emotional traumas? The rise in accidents? The social ills are also endless. What would happen is that those who actually work and make money would have to pay for this with higher taxes. Either way the bill has to be paid! Not good.

I don’t really understand why some of them cover the costs of lung cancer or heart problems for those that smoke cigarettes or are morbidly obese. These people directly influence my taxes and my insurance premiums and do so by doing things are that “not good for you.”

True, and what would make the problem far worse would be the legalization of drugs!

I agree that there are reasons not to legalize it (some valid, some not), but most people do not abstain from smoking because it is illegal.

I’m not entirely sure about that one. However, I am sure that the four points that I stressed above are very very true!

Those that don’t smoke choose not to for other reasons, and they are not going to start smoking just because the government decides that it is legal all of a sudden.

Not necessarily true! Read the four points above.

Saying “it shouldn’t be legal because that’s the way it has been for a really long time and if we change it now it will make things worse,” doesn’t really hold up as an argument for me and doesn’t make the law any more valid. It doesn’t change the fact that the law is outdated and ridiculous.

I’m not saying that is the reason that pot should not be legalized. I am for changing things that don’t work. I am not for chaninging something that does not work well into something that is a total disaster.

Let’s take a look at why the war on drugs is not working to our satisfaction. Then make some positive moves so that it works better. I think a good beginning is better education. However, I think that the bigger problem begins at home!

[ZEB]

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:

I agree that most of us who favor legalization are between the ages of 18-34 and may or may not have children,[/quote]

BINGO! And when you do get older and have children you will become very concerned about their welfare. Your opinions will change…it’s almost magical…lol

but that doesn’t mean that our opinions don’t matter or that we don’t know what we are talking about.

I agree, however as you do get older your views will change. I have not yet spoken with anyone who has not changed their opinion from the time they were 18 to the time they hit 35 or 40.

Could it be that we are just more free thinking and are more prone to question the status quo rather than to just sit back and say “ah fuck it, its the government what can you do?” We argue for the legalization because we think that it being illegal is wrong and want things to change.

Yes that could be with some of the people debating on this thread. However, it could also be that some on this thread simply want to smoke pot without the possibility of arrest. And it could also be that some on this thread have been busted for pot use and are very ticked off about it. Yea…all are a possibility…

Ultimately, I realize that the legalization of marijuana for the common person is very unlikely to happen. No politician is going to be willing to stick his or her neck out to get that to happen. But that doesn?t mean we should just throw up our hands, forget about it, and move on to something else.

I think debate is healthy. Currently almost 70% of the populace is against the legalization of pot. Twenty years from now that could all change. But…it’s still fun and healthy to debate.

[ZEB]

[quote]Gregus wrote:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Don’t bother wasting your time arguing with Zeb. His mind is not capable of changing about any topic, it just aruges his points over and over ad naseum no matter how many times you may prove him wrong he’ll come back and say you did’t prove anything. [/quote]

Gregus:

You know after I read your post I was just a bit offended. Then I looked at the post you wrote about GW (on another thread) right after making your claim above:

"Simple, he an OIL baron from texas. Think about that next time you try and find reasons why every time a BUSH has been in office the gas prices skyrocketed.

He sits on private boards with other powerfull families that make up the OPEC leaders. One of the most prominanat families on the board is none other then the Bin Laden Family.

On another note i said from day ONE they will NEVER, mark my words NEVER catch osama. Why? Consider it a family favor to his fellow bin laden board members. Even now they’re starting to babble about him no longer being important to catch because too much of his network is in shambles for him to be any threat, the lies continue people, wake up already."

After reading the Michael Mooreish tripe above, I understand where you are coming from and now I’m not the least bit offended.

[ToShinDo]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
ToShinDo:

Read your post and don’t see anything really new. I think that this debate has reached a point where most do (at least on the Internet).

I will never prove to you that making drugs legal will worsen the situation. You will never prove to me that the Netharlands are even remotely similar in any way shape or form to the US.[/quote]

It’s far more similar to us than say, Singapore or China. Besides, show me another country where cannabis laws are so liberal! Right now, it’s our only example. And it seems to be going fine.

[quote]I will simply reiterate my point one last time:

Making pot legal will indeed increase it’s usage. [/quote] For how long? Forever? I agree there will probably a spike in usage in the beginning, followd by a leveling off. Most people who want to smoke already do so.

1. If it’s legal it’s more readily available.

To adults maybe, less so to kids. But naturally we disagree on this.

2. If it’s legal it’s more affordable.

Tax the holy hell out of it. Use that tax money solely for drug education and rehab. Instead of spending money to keep otherwise law-abiding citizens in prison. Education is more cost effective than prison, just about every study done supports that assertion.

3. If it’s legal it will be highly promote in one form of the media or the other.

No TV ads, no radio ads, no magazine ads, no newspaper ads, no billboards, no sports sponsorships (Hmmm, alcohol sponsors a driving sport, weird), no product placement, no giveaways. That leaves the Internet. Any site a kid would be allowed to go to would not advertise something illegal for a minor to purchase.

4. If it’s legal it becomes more socially acceptable.

Like sodomy, abortion, facial tattoos, tongue splitting, and branding? Things can be legal and still be on the outside of social acceptance. Besides cannabis smoking is fairly socially acceptable already.

[quote]Good luck in your war FOR drugs…And I hope you never get caught toking. Although a little jail time might be good for you…KIDDING

[/quote]

Good luck in your war against personal freedoms I hope police don’t perform a no-knock raid on your house (oops wrong address!) and you end up like this guy:

September, 1999: Denver SWAT team members shoot and kill 45-year-old Ismael Mena, a father of nine, after he attempted to defend himself and his family from the unannounced, masked intruders who broke down his bedroom door as he slept. The SWAT team was carrying out a no-knock raid, but had the wrong address on their search warrant. Mena was shot eight times and died on the spot after he fired one shot from a .22 caliber pistol. No drugs were found at the house.

The Drug War ensures that things like this will happen again.

It has not worked, it will not work, no matter how much money is thrown at it. It is a war that cannot be won with current methods, but no change is in sight.

The scientific data simply does not exist that shows the horror predicted by cannabis legalization.

Well, you’ve said your piece, I’ve said mine. And you are right about the end result of Internet debates. No change again. But I hope I at least made you think.

Sorry, I had to comment on one more thing below, then I’m done.

[ToShinDo]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think debate is healthy. Currently almost 70% of the populace is against the legalization of pot. Twenty years from now that could all change. [/quote]

You’ve posted this several times. What source? When was it done? How was the question asked? That can influence the outcome greatly. Here’s a poll from 2003:
A poll released Tuesday (6/24) by Zogby International found that 41% of Americans agree “the government should treat marijuana more or less the same way it treats alcohol: It should regulate it, control it, tax it and only make it illegal for children.” This represents a striking increase from previous nationwide polls on making marijuana legal.

Here’s one from October 2002:
Also in the news today was a Time/CNN poll showing that 72 percent of Americans oppose jailing marijuana users, which is to say that they favor what is commonly called ?decriminalization.?

[Gregus]

I don’t know who Michale Moore is or what he does Zeb. What i posted are observations i made on my own.

What’s the matter don’t you watch fox? Are you not aware that Osama is becoming an unimportant target? Common man you really buy the spoon fed crap they feed you, don’t you?

[c_j1]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
c/j, I am for legalization of marijuana.

Your rants are unintelligible drivel.

I have seen your “political knowledge” and I am thoroughly unimpressed.

Perhaps you should cut back on your smoking.[/quote]

For one, since you know how much I smoke, right Zap. And once again all your doing is saying this is “unintelligable dribble” and “your political knowledge doesn’t impress me”. Great we know your point of view. Now where is your reasoning. You still won’t give any reasoning to why my comments are so stupid, and any facts to show why you don’t agree with me.

Ya Zeb I know something that can calm me down…Weed!! (How could anyone not see that coming.) And sasquach if my remarks are such “shit”, then why do Zeb and Zap have their hands full? Maybe because neither of them can disprove or give any reasoning against anything I say.
They just say c/j is wrong, irrational, and unintelligent. Good way to take the easy way out. Just comment like that and don’t give any support for your comments. I could say the same about you, but instead I give a list of facts to support WHY I think this way.

You see I used to be very religious and conservative, and then I started thinking and researching for myself. So we’re not so different. You just think the way I used to, when I thought the way I was supposed to and was ignorant to the hidden truths in the world. Now that I have so much more knowledge I think the way I currently do. So do some research yourself and then see what your point of view is.

[ZEB]

Since you have posted twice more on the topic I’ll will try to respond. However, don’t look for anything new after over 30 posts I have pretty much said all that I can on the topic.

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
ZEB wrote:
ToShinDo:

It’s far more similar to us than say, Singapore or China. Besides, show me another country where cannabis laws are so liberal! Right now, it’s our only example. And it seems to be going fine.[/quote]

The Netharlands did not legalize drug use! They merely softened their stance on certain soft drugs.

Current Legislation and Enforcement in the Netharlands:

"Also referred to as the Narcotics Act ?is the Netherlands? main drug legislation. The Act criminalizes possession, cultivation, trafficking and importing or exporting.

There are two classes of drugs:

Schedule I drugs are deemed to present an unacceptable risk to Dutch society and include heroin, cocaine, amphetamines and LSD;

Schedule II drugs include traditional hemp products such as marijuana and hashish. Further amendments were made following a major government drug policy study in 1995, and a summary of the current state of the law follows:

Overview of Penalties

The possession of all scheduled drugs is an offence, but possession of a small quantity of “soft” drugs for personal use is a minor offence.

Importing and exporting are the most serious offences under the Act.

The maximum penalty for importing or exporting soft drugs is four years? imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 guilders.

Habitual offenders are liable to a maximum penalty of 16 years? imprisonment and a fine of 1,000,000 guilders. Moreover, offenders may be deprived of any money or property gained from their offence."

As you can see the Netharlands did not legalize drug use!

Making pot legal will indeed increase it’s usage.

Most people who want to smoke already do so.

You and I have no way of knowing that. And good sense would tell us that if the following four things are present that useage would go up!

1. If it’s legal it’s more readily available.

2. If it’s legal it’s more affordable.

3. If it’s legal it will be highly promoted in one form of the media or the other.

4. If it’s legal it becomes more socially acceptable.

[quote]Tax the holy hell out of it. Use that tax money solely for drug education and rehab. Instead of spending money to keep otherwise law-abiding citizens in prison. Education is more cost effective than prison, just about every study done supports that assertion.

No TV ads, no radio ads, no magazine ads, no newspaper ads, no billboards, no sports sponsorships (Hmmm, alcohol sponsors a driving sport, weird), no product placement, no giveaways. That leaves the Internet. Any site a kid would be allowed to go to would not advertise something illegal for a minor to purchase.[/quote]

All these things would help keep the usage down a little. However, I think the best way to keep usage down is to stop pot from becoming legal.

Besides cannabis smoking is fairly socially acceptable already.

In certain circles it might be. However, does that mean that the above four things will not make it more socially acceptable? No of course not.

The Drug War ensures that things like this will happen again.

Having any laws ensures that some mistakes will be made by some police officers some of the time. What is the alternative? We could legalize everything then you would really lower the crime rate. Of course you would be much less safe.

It has not worked, it will not work, no matter how much money is thrown at it. It is a war that cannot be won with current methods, but no change is in sight.

Some of the current methods that are in use are ineffective, some are very effective. How many users of marijuana read this thread and badly want pot to be legalized. Ask yourself why they would want that? If pot is so readily available and the laws don’t work then what’s the difference? The difference is users still have to hide if they want to smoke! With 800,000 arrests last year it seems that the deterrent, while not the best, is still at work.

The scientific data simply does not exist that shows the horror predicted by cannabis legalization.

The four reasons above show how a product is built and made quite popular. While it is not “scientific” I highly doubt that companies like Marlboro, Budwieser and the rest would spend so much to build their brands (and fight to keep them legal) if that was ineffective. However, the scientific evidence does not exist that shows legalization of pot in America would in anyway reduce it’s usage. Why gamble?

Well, you’ve said your piece, I’ve said mine. And you are right about the end result of Internet debates. No change again. But I hope I at least made you think.

I have researched this subject for several years. I have hands on experience regarding the topic as well. I don’t want to offend you, but you didn’t “make me think.” We all have certain “core beliefs” and this is one of mine.

I’m not sure about several things: The economy, N. Korea, Social Security etc. However, pot is not one of them. The more people walking around high dumbs down our society and creates financial and emotional pain for everyone involved. That I’m sure of!

I do however thank you for the polite discourse. You never took this debate to a personal level and for that you have my respect!

[ZEB]

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:

You’ve posted this several times. What source? When was it done? How was the question asked? That can influence the outcome greatly. Here’s a poll from 2003:
A poll released Tuesday (6/24) by Zogby International found that 41% of Americans agree “the government should treat marijuana more or less the same way it treats alcohol: It should regulate it, control it, tax it and only make it illegal for children.” This represents a striking increase from previous nationwide polls on making marijuana legal.

Here’s one from October 2002:
Also in the news today was a Time/CNN poll showing that 72 percent of Americans oppose jailing marijuana users, which is to say that they favor what is commonly called ?decriminalization.? [/quote]

I think it was a Gallup poll that showed something like 67% against legalizaton of pot. Maybe 2002 or 2003? Sorry I don’t have more to share.

I do think that trends are favoring legalization but not in the near future.

[ZEB]

[quote]Gregus wrote:
I don’t know who Michale Moore is or what he does Zeb. What i posted are observations i made on my own.

What’s the matter don’t you watch fox? Are you not aware that Osama is becoming an unimportant target? Common man you really buy the spoon fed crap they feed you, don’t you?[/quote]

If I believed in wacko conspiacy theories would you be satisfied? Um…no thanks. Bye

[ZEB]

[quote]c/j wrote:

For one, since you know how much I smoke, right Zap. And once again all your doing is saying this is “unintelligable dribble” and “your political knowledge doesn’t impress me”. Great we know your point of view. Now where is your reasoning. You still won’t give any reasoning to why my comments are so stupid, and any facts to show why you don’t agree with me.

Ya Zeb I know something that can calm me down…Weed!! (How could anyone not see that coming.) And sasquach if my remarks are such “shit”, then why do Zeb and Zap have their hands full? Maybe because neither of them can disprove or give any reasoning against anything I say.
They just say c/j is wrong, irrational, and unintelligent. Good way to take the easy way out. Just comment like that and don’t give any support for your comments. I could say the same about you, but instead I give a list of facts to support WHY I think this way.

You see I used to be very religious and conservative, and then I started thinking and researching for myself. So we’re not so different. You just think the way I used to, when I thought the way I was supposed to and was ignorant to the hidden truths in the world. Now that I have so much more knowledge I think the way I currently do. So do some research yourself and then see what your point of view is. [/quote]

You know c/j you are really making some very good points on this forum. Keep up the good work!

[c_j1]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

You know c/j you are really making some very good points on this forum. Keep up the good work![/quote]

Zeb if your being sincere. Thank you. You make good points also, I just don’t agree with most of them. If you’re being sarcastic, go fuck yourself. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and appreciate the compliment as I hope you will with mine. But I beleive I’m done on here. This post is all but dead. Peace.

[WMD]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
WMD wrote:
Zeb, please provide some peer-reviewed statistics or data to support any of your contentions.

How does prosecuting anyone who does not live their lives the way you think they should make for a better society?

Please, smoke a bowl and quit being a dick to stoners and queers.

WMD

Please provide some evidence that making pot legal won’t make more pot heads.

I know that this is a difficult premise for you to grasp, but it’s not about how I live my life…are you with me still?

When you debate public policy it helps to try to grasp the larger picture of how an action effects the greater good of society as a whole.

My advice to you: Smoke less…think more![/quote]

A) You made the assertions; now support them.

B) Everything you’ve ever posted on this website is about how you think everybody else should live and that your way of doing things is morally, psychologically and in all other ways superior to anyone elses.

C) Quit pretending you know what is best for the public welfare. (I won’t go into the concept of individual rights and liberties in a free society, as that would simply hurt your brain.)

D) Please develop your capacity for critical thought.

WMD

PS: Quit being a dick.

[WMD]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m still waiting for one of these pro pot guys to tell me all the many benefits that society will have with the legalization of pot. I can think of the many negatives…[/quote]

I’m shocked and amazed; Zeb can think of negatives.

Go figure…

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]c/j wrote:
… And sasquach if my remarks are such “shit”, then why do Zeb and Zap have their hands full? Maybe because neither of them can disprove or give any reasoning against anything I say.
… [/quote]

Start a thread on the subject of your choice.

Try hitting the enter key a few times so I can read what you wrote.

I will be happy to debate you.

[WMD]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
orion wrote:

Zeb, you are aware that placing the needs of “society” above the needs of individuals is the path to tyranny? There is no such thing as a society that has any needs on its own.

The greater good of the whole is far greater than the needs of one small sector. In this case 20 somethings that want to get high legally. The majority of citizens in our country are also against the legalization of pot.

{/quote]

A) Zeb is a fascist. He does not understand that he lives in a society based upon respect for individual rights and liberties.

B) He is a master of reductio ad absurdem and straw man arguments.

WMD