[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:
Lots of self righteous liars.[/quote]
Don’t call us liars to justify your opinions.
You see, if everyone was of the thinking that they’d return the money, then a large portion of those people would also offer up a reward if the roles were reversed and they were receiving the money.
But, this isn’t an ideal world. [/quote]
Believe what you want.
But, I’m certain that 99.9% of the people that say that they’d give it back are full of shit.
It’s really easy to make the decision to be a moral superhero when you are sitting on the sidelines.
When faced with this situation personally, I’d bet that every single person that said they’d return the money would convince themselves to do otherwise.[/quote]
You’ve already said the same shit 3 times here. We got it. Whether or not you believe any of us is not only beside the point of the thread, but nobody gives a shit what you think.
…I wouldn’t think his legal rights to it pass along to his next of kin…
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But of course! What kind of stupid society would we live in if such a thing as “inheritance” was in place? Sheesh.
In fact I’ve never even heard of passing something along to your next of kin! Have you?
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Push, your condescending attitude in this thread, while initially adorable, has grown old…you are not nearly as smart as you think you are, which is why I asked the lawyer this question and not you…
My mind was made up from jump street that I would be keeping the money unless for some legal reason I would be unable to do so…hence me asking the lawyer
If I wanted to be talked down to and judged from your pedestal, I’d have sent you a PM…
This has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with character. The fact that you apparently don’t comprehend this says a lot about both your intelligence and character.
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Yes sweetie, the OP’s question is a matter of character.
However, the question I posed to Dixie, which was quoted in my response so you should have had no problem ascertaining what I was referring to, was a question about the LEGALITY of “finders keepers” and thus deals directly with intelligence (or “knowledge” if you prefer).
We were talking about two separate things there chief, and you knew this. You’re punching out strawmen on one front when I thought it was obvious we were engaging in a conversation on an entirely different battlefield. You are obviously very proficient at that since that’s how most of your discussions seem to end. Its funny that you think other people don’t see what you’re doing (or maybe just don’t care). Either way, don’t get too dizzy talking yourself in circles there partner.
i dont get the keep it attitude. im trying not to be judgemental. im reminded of a friend of mine who recently found an iphone in a taxi and returned it to the owner. posted about it on fb as if he was doing something special. and the thing is, what he did was probably a bit out of the ordinary. many would have kept the phone and sold it or whatever. people who are not exactly desperate for cash. not poor. not on the street. what kind of a society are we trying to create here? its as simple as that for me.
Years ago my wife and I ran our business out of an office building. One day one of the other tenants came into our office quite distraught. He had lost a rather expensive gold and multi-diamond ring his fiance had given him, and he was going from office to office asking if anyone had found it. I told him no, but I’d keep a lookout for it.
On the drive home later that day, I told my wife I had a strange feeling that I was going to find the ring.
A couple of days passed and I asked the man if he had any luck finding the ring. No luck. I’m sure by this point he imagined someone had found it and cashed it in. I still had an odd feeling that I’d find it.
Three days later I parked the car at work, and as my wife and I made our way across the parking lot, I saw the ring just sitting there in one of the empty parking spaces! My wife was astonished. We went inside and went straight to the man’s office. We wished him good morning and I held up the ring. He was ecstatic to say the least. He offered me a reward, but I refused. Days later he came by our office with the reward offer again, but I refused.
I’m not telling this to talk down to or preach to anyone here. I’m only reiterating that I stand by what I said earlier: I’d give the money back. I raised my son with this type of thinking (or “attitude”, as some of you perceive it), and I wouldn’t expect my flesh and blood to be any other way.
EDIT: Oh, and for those of you who think this may just be an age thing (as I am almost 50), think again. When I was in the 9th grade, I was using the restroom at school when I found a man’s wallet under the heating unit. The damned thing was thick and filled with cash and credit cards. My friends were cheering and immediately talking about what we could do with all that money. I promptly headed for the main office to report my find and turn it in. My friends chided me about it all day.
Next day, the assistant principal tracked me down and personally thanked me for returning his wallet.
ID - The sad thing is that honesty is sometimes viewed as weird. I recently bought two cases of Dr. Pepper at Costco. Addicted. Anyway, when I got to my car, I realized they had only charged me for one. When I walked back to the service desk to fix it, the woman acted like I was an idiot. “Oh. Wow. Well, so you want us to charge you for another case??..” She seemed kind of annoyed to have to hassle with it. I’ll bet you’ve had the same experience.
Just an observation, but a lot of people consider a “mistake” that works in their favor to be just good luck. The same people would be back in there getting a refund if they were overcharged. This stuff can seem insignificant, especially when it only involves a few dollars, but it’s fundamental to a civil society. I like to tell my kids, “Your integrity is worth more than 5 bucks…or whatever it is.” A lot of people will justify stealing from a faceless entity like a store, or an insurance company, especially if they feel that the prices are unfair.
This thread is interesting because it involves A LOT of money. I’d think people would be even more likely to keep it if the amount was small. Wonder why that is? It brings to mind the recent thread about sneaking into a gym when you travel. It’s OK because it’s only ten dollars. It’s also OK if you think the price is unfair.
Oh, and if you are wondering if this is an age thing…I’m almost 42.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Legally, would it not be the new homeowners property once he had bought the house and it’s still there?[/quote]
Depends on if the property in question is ruled lost, mislaid, or abandoned.
…
Abandoned - original owner has voluntarily parted with the property - finder has superior title[/quote]
So, let’s say the guy selling the house just wanted to get rid of it and sold it saying everything in it was abandoned and is now property of the buyer, who happens to be you.
Would you still give it back or feel better about keeping it?
I don’t think it’s an age thing, but rather about values. My mother always taught me values like helping those who need it, be honest and humble, etc. She didn’t teach me these things by words, but by actions. Once we took a taxi back home and when we were out of the taxi, she realized that the taxi driver had given totally wrong exchange. I don’t remember the quantities, but the taxi driver had given her back a lot more than she had actually paid. My mother made a big effort to find this taxi driver and give her back the money.
Things like this marked me and made me a man of values. I’m far from perfect of course, but I try to stay as “righteous” as I can. 45000$ is a lot of money, but I know I’d be quite restless if I kept it. Plus, I haven’t earned that money, it’s not mine and this money was intended for someone else. I just couldn’t keep it and spend it.
I’ve gotten in arguments with people who’d keep it and don’t want to believe that some of us wouldn’t.
ID: That is a crazy story man…nobody had run over the ring or anything? Dude is lucky!
But, I think that situation is a bit different here…again, I’m not trying to justify my stance here as I’ve made it very clear, but I would have done the exact same thing you did with the ring (or really anything that I found outside of my property owned by a living person).
Your story has a certain emotional element to it (the man is distraught over lost valuable that he had an emotional attachment to). Same thing with iphones, the owner’s always have an attachment to the money, for say, financial reasons (they ain’t cheap and they invested their money to buy one). I wouldn’t be able to keep the items in either of those situations, because I would know how emotional the person is over losing it. Plus I would know that it didn’t belong to me (I hadn’t purchased it).
However, with the OP’s scenario, such a bond isn’t present. In fact, the son had no idea the money even existed! This fact changes things drastically for me, because I am divorced from the guilt of emotional attachments…so I could keep a dead guy’s money in good conscience…
This goes back to my Beverly Hillbillies question earlier, which noone conveniently answered–What if you found oil on your newly purchased property quite by accident? Do you have a moral obligation to split the profits with the previous owner (or even give them 100% of the profits, as so many here seem to advocate)?
Would this situation change if you found documents in the attic indicating the old man had suspected oil and had done a bit of speculating, but died before erecting the dyke (heheheheh)?
I see no difference in those two scenarios, and in both of them I am pocketing the profits…
Push, your condescending attitude in this thread, while initially adorable, has grown old…
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It matters little to me how adorable or old my condescending attitude may seem to you. When I look at the “finders keepers” responses on this thread I think how pathetic and character debilitating a greedy attitude is. I would venture a guess, and this is just a guess, that most of the “I’d keep it” crowd would be the younger (16 - 25) respondents. That’s makes me wonder where as a nation(s) we will be in 20 - 50 years.
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In my eyes, the old man has already done wrong by hiding the money rather than using it or putting it in a bank. Rather than using the money in some way so that society can collectively progress, he hid it selfishly so that he would be safe in case something happens and everyone else is screwed over. He is the most selfish of them all and even hid his money from his own offsprings. Thank god the old bastard died so that money can once again go into circulation to benefit society.
As I see it, the descendants of this man never owned the money, so it is not moral to give the money back. Giving the money to the descendants of this man is as stupid as giving back your hard earned money back to your boss’s son. It is definitely more moral to keep the money and do something that benefits the whole society with it (like donating to a charity) than to give it back to some greedy fool’s descendant who don’t even know the money exists and would just end up squandering it.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Years ago my wife and I ran our business out of an office building. One day one of the other tenants came into our office quite distraught. He had lost a rather expensive gold and multi-diamond ring his fiance had given him, and he was going from office to office asking if anyone had found it. I told him no, but I’d keep a lookout for it.
On the drive home later that day, I told my wife I had a strange feeling that I was going to find the ring.
A couple of days passed and I asked the man if he had any luck finding the ring. No luck. I’m sure by this point he imagined someone had found it and cashed it in. I still had an odd feeling that I’d find it.
Three days later I parked the car at work, and as my wife and I made our way across the parking lot, I saw the ring just sitting there in one of the empty parking spaces! My wife was astonished. We went inside and went straight to the man’s office. We wished him good morning and I held up the ring. He was ecstatic to say the least. He offered me a reward, but I refused. Days later he came by our office with the reward offer again, but I refused.
I’m not telling this to talk down to or preach to anyone here. I’m only reiterating that I stand by what I said earlier: I’d give the money back. I raised my son with this type of thinking (or “attitude”, as some of you perceive it), and I wouldn’t expect my flesh and blood to be any other way.
EDIT: Oh, and for those of you who think this may just be an age thing (as I am almost 50), think again. When I was in the 9th grade, I was using the restroom at school when I found a man’s wallet under the heating unit. The damned thing was thick and filled with cash and credit cards. My friends were cheering and immediately talking about what we could do with all that money. I promptly headed for the main office to report my find and turn it in. My friends chided me about it all day.
Next day, the assistant principal tracked me down and personally thanked me for returning his wallet.[/quote]
This is a completely different situation. I would try to find and return the ring and wallet without a doubt. It was clear that someone was missing it.
In the case of the original story, no one is missing anything; it’s as fair as winning the lottery.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
ID - The sad thing is that honesty is sometimes viewed as weird. I recently bought two cases of Dr. Pepper at Costco. Addicted. Anyway, when I got to my car, I realized they had only charged me for one. When I walked back to the service desk to fix it, the woman acted like I was an idiot. “Oh. Wow. Well, so you want us to charge you for another case??..” She seemed kind of annoyed to have to hassle with it. I’ll bet you’ve had the same experience.
Just an observation, but a lot of people consider a “mistake” that works in their favor to be just good luck. The same people would be back in there getting a refund if they were overcharged. This stuff can seem insignificant, especially when it only involves a few dollars, but it’s fundamental to a civil society. I like to tell my kids, “Your integrity is worth more than 5 bucks…or whatever it is.” A lot of people will justify stealing from a faceless entity like a store, or an insurance company, especially if they feel that the prices are unfair.
This thread is interesting because it involves A LOT of money. I’d think people would be even more likely to keep it if the amount was small. Wonder why that is? It brings to mind the recent thread about sneaking into a gym when you travel. It’s OK because it’s only ten dollars. It’s also OK if you think the price is unfair.
Oh, and if you are wondering if this is an age thing…I’m almost 42. [/quote]
This is just stupid. You got lucky from a mistake; no dishonesty involved. Plus fuck the damn capitalists who were probably ripping you off anyway. You know that any company have equations that calculate losses from such mistakes, they should be taking this into account, and really, it is insignificant to their overall profits.