Maine Bill Outlaws Energy Drinks for Minors

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]nephorm wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
What’s wrong with lettig the stupid people die? It’s just another case of where the few dumbasses ruin it for everyone else.

It isn’t very pragmatic. I don’t think either you or pat got the point of my previous post. If we do NOT limit the access minors have to certain things, the practical result is likely to be sensationalized accounts of the dangers of to those same things. Which puts all of our access to these substances at risk.

And if you “need” to drink energy drinks to pass high school, then I think you probably need to reevaluate your extra-curricular activities or your course load. I can’t keep track of the number of students I had who wanted to participate in three school sports (taking up every evening and weekend) and then were surprised that their academics suffered.

Your job while you are in high school is to STUDY and do HOMEWORK. NOT make the wrestling team, not score the winning touchdown, NOT be the star goalie for the team. If you can’t hack it, drugs are not the answer, be they legal or illegal. Why? Because, ultimately: what you do in high school doesn’t matter. But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.[/quote]

Make the idiot parents pay for the rest of their lives.

42

[quote]MrOldSchool wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Maine Rep. Troy Jackson (D-Allagash) introduced Maine LD 2034, “An Act to Prohibit the Sale of Energy Drinks to Minors.”

Minors (ie. Under 18) will not be able to purchase or receive “Energy Drinks”. It will be illegal to sell or distribute them to minors.

“Energy Drink” is defined (in the bill as):

“Energy drink” means a soft drink that contains 80 or more milligrams of caffeine per 8 fluid ounces advertised as being specifically designed to provide energy and generally including a combination of methylxanthines, B vitamins and herbal ingredients."

Such is life in the Nanny state of Maine, where politicians know better than parents.

Article Link: http://www.asmainegoes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52063

Thoughts?

Despite the fact that long-term use of these products could cause potential health problems, it sure as hell isnt Big Brother’s role or right to determine who can or cannot consume these products unless their is an extreme risk of life or death (which of course their isnt if dranken reasonably)
[/quote]

The government has no right to determine what goes in a person’s body. If somebody wants to drink bleach shots and chase it with gasoline, be my guest. Give a shit, I don’t.

43

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Does anyone really think it is good for minors to purchase or use energy drinks? Is it really unreasonable to put limits on what minors can purchase when they are unsupervised by parents? I have no problem prohibiting the sale of cigarettes, alcohol, or virtually anything else to minors when parents are not available to give consent.

[/quote]

You have just hit on the very danger of this type of activity. Just becuase something sounds like a good idea, does not mean gov’t should mandate it. This how they go about sytematically taking over our lives. There power over us grows incrementally and almost always starts with limiting or controlling measures that seem to “make sense”.

Seat belt laws
smoking
food restrictions
limiting medications or treatments one can choose from
limiting who you can seek medical treatment from
limiting who you can seek leagal advise from.
limiting who you can seek to cut your hair.
limiting who can seek to clean your teeth.

This list goes on and on. All in name of protecting us. Gov’t has no right to protect us from ourselves. Thier only obligation is to protect us from coersion or force when it comes to consumption of products or services.

Think of what would happen if the gov’t was footing the bill for medical care. One ominous study of any type of food or consumable good that may impact health negatively, and we will see complete bans. Once gov’t is footing the bill for medical care they will restrict our diets and lifestyle choices in ways we can’t even imagine.

One only needs to look as far as the FDA and EPA to see abuses of power in this capacity. These organizations have been given the power of lawmaker, police, judge, and jury by our electived representatives.

44

[quote]dhickey wrote:
You have just hit on the very danger of this type of activity. Just becuase something sounds like a good idea, does not mean gov’t should mandate it. This how they go about sytematically taking over our lives. There power over us grows incrementally and almost always starts with limiting or controlling measures that seem to “make sense”.
[/quote]

Except, I was talking about kids.

Children do not have fully developed capacities to choose. Adults, in theory, do. We set an age of adulthood as a proxy for the ability to make informed choices. Children get special protection under the law, in part, because they are less able to protect themselves than ordinary adults would be in the same circumstances. Parents cannot be everywhere at once, especially when grocery stores and convenience shops are within walking distance of a school.

That is not necessarily so. But I don’t like socialized medical care, at least in the forms I have seen it, so this is a non-issue to my argument.

[quote]
One only needs to look as far as the FDA and EPA to see abuses of power in this capacity. These organizations have been given the power of lawmaker, police, judge, and jury by our electived representatives.[/quote]

I don’t see what the harm would be in banning ANY substance for sale to children as long as it is left legal to adults, as long as it is not food, and as long as it is not required for normal/healthy development of the child.

Being a child comes with special rights, and it also comes with restrictions.

45

[quote]nephorm wrote:
…

Being a child comes with special rights, and it also comes with restrictions. [/quote]

Well said.

46

[quote]nephorm wrote:
dhickey wrote:
You have just hit on the very danger of this type of activity. Just becuase something sounds like a good idea, does not mean gov’t should mandate it. This how they go about sytematically taking over our lives. There power over us grows incrementally and almost always starts with limiting or controlling measures that seem to “make sense”.

Except, I was talking about kids.

Children do not have fully developed capacities to choose. Adults, in theory, do. We set an age of adulthood as a proxy for the ability to make informed choices. Children get special protection under the law, in part, because they are less able to protect themselves than ordinary adults would be in the same circumstances. Parents cannot be everywhere at once, especially when grocery stores and convenience shops are within walking distance of a school.
[/quote]
and a parents right to raise their children. The problem is coming up with some line in the sand here. We could keep adding items to the list.

Whenever we claim that some action by gov’t is favorable we also need to ask the questions ‘at what cost?’. This will end up costing the tax payers money. Education (advertising), enforcement, etc. My brother in law works for the county and they had a whole task force assigned to addressing underaged smoking. Brochures, signs, add campains, undercover kids setting up stings, monitoring, etc. All on the tax payer’s dime and all for one rural county. There has been no decline in underage smoking here. Infact it appears to be on the rise again.

I never had a problem gettin cigarettes or booze when I was underage. If I wanted to smoke before turning 18, I smoked. I drank more when I was underage than I do now or at any other point in my life.

47

[quote]dhickey wrote:
and a parents right to raise their children. The problem is coming up with some line in the sand here. We could keep adding items to the list.
[/quote]

I generally support wide latitude in terms of what a parent permits a child to consume, within bounds. I am concerned here with what a child is allowed to purchase. If the law states that parent may not buy energy drinks for their children, then we would have to have a different discussion.

This is, again, a different issue. I am generally not in favor of some of these tactics/expenses. A ban does not have to cost much of anything. That some areas choose to spend money is a different matter.

That is too bad.

48

[quote]nephorm wrote:

This is, again, a different issue. I am generally not in favor of some of these tactics/expenses. A ban does not have to cost much of anything. That some areas choose to spend money is a different matter.
[/quote]
Unfortunately are more often than not the same issue. How do they enforce it? I find very likely that there will be more than on Bureacrat assigned to this with some sort of budget. Once programs like this are started they are rarely terminated and the budget rarely shrinks.

[quote]
I never had a problem gettin cigarettes or booze when I was underage. If I wanted to smoke before turning 18, I smoked. I drank more when I was underage than I do now or at any other point in my life.

That is too bad.[/quote]

not really. I am no worse off today for having been a little wild as a teenager. It was all a part of groing up and I beleive it allowed to move on to more heathly choices as a young adult. I consistanly saw others in College and after that didn’t start drinking until they reached leagle age. While I had moved on, they were still enjoying the wild and irresponsible phase.

My parents got away with more than I did. With a lower drinking age, no DWIs, and much less regulation of their behavior. They are also no worse off. Coddeling (sp?) our children more and more each generation is hardly producing a better citizen or healthier individual. Why do it if there are no measurable effects?

49

Too far. We’re telling our kids that they don’t have to shoulder any responsibility. The only reason I don’t binge on Alcohol anymore is because I ended up in the ER getting my stomach pumped.

Not pleasant.

But I learned from it. You can’t fight Darwinism, the idiots will find ways to kill themselves off no matter what mollycoddling laws you pass.

50

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Except, I was talking about kids.

[/quote]

Kids are just little people are they not? Nature took care of the natural order. Parents are to be responsible for their kids. Asking the government to be responsible for the kids is not natural and does no good. Ultimately the government is easier to trump than parents. Any prohibition or limiting of freedom on anybody in any way can have potentially bad consequences. It makes no sense for the government to do the job of parents. It give parents the license to be deadbeats. 100 - 150 years ago there where no prohibition laws. Arguably, the children of yesteryear were better behaved because parents had to do their job…

51

[quote]dhickey wrote:
nephorm wrote:

This is, again, a different issue. I am generally not in favor of some of these tactics/expenses. A ban does not have to cost much of anything. That some areas choose to spend money is a different matter.

Unfortunately are more often than not the same issue. How do they enforce it? I find very likely that there will be more than on Bureacrat assigned to this with some sort of budget. Once programs like this are started they are rarely terminated and the budget rarely shrinks.

I never had a problem gettin cigarettes or booze when I was underage. If I wanted to smoke before turning 18, I smoked. I drank more when I was underage than I do now or at any other point in my life.

That is too bad.

not really. I am no worse off today for having been a little wild as a teenager. It was all a part of groing up and I beleive it allowed to move on to more heathly choices as a young adult. I consistanly saw others in College and after that didn’t start drinking until they reached leagle age. While I had moved on, they were still enjoying the wild and irresponsible phase.

My parents got away with more than I did. With a lower drinking age, no DWIs, and much less regulation of their behavior. They are also no worse off. Coddeling (sp?) our children more and more each generation is hardly producing a better citizen or healthier individual. Why do it if there are no measurable effects?
[/quote]

My kids are bigger pussies than I was. And at the time, I was considered a big fat pussy.

52

[quote]pat wrote:

My kids are bigger pussies than I was. And at the time, I was considered a big fat pussy.[/quote]

My favorite post since being on here.

Reverse evolution. The weak are coddled and the strong are marginalized. Where do think this is going to lead?

It’s time for a revolution. Start slapping your kids around before it’s too late.

53

[quote]pat wrote:

My kids are bigger pussies than I was. And at the time, I was considered a big fat pussy.[/quote]

lol

Unfortunately kids today have a lot more temptation and a lot more danger than I had growing up.

54

I think an overlooked point is that energy drinks are often cocktails of a myriad of other ingredients that often potentate the effects of caffeine. Yohimbine is an example of this. I know that some energy drinks with this give me a racing heart and shivers, whereas a drink(coffee) with an equal amount of caffeine as in the energy drink does not.

I know I was stupid enough at 16 to drink a brew of ephedra and yerba mate. Hole-e-shite was that strong!

55

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
I think an overlooked point is that energy drinks are often cocktails of a myriad of other ingredients that often potentate the effects of caffeine. Yohimbine is an example of this. I know that some energy drinks with this give me a racing heart and shivers, whereas a drink(coffee) with an equal amount of caffeine as in the energy drink does not.

I know I was stupid enough at 16 to drink a brew of ephedra and yerba mate. Hole-e-shite was that strong![/quote]

So you learned something. God forbid someone else should do that.

56

[quote]pat wrote:
Kids are just little people are they not?
[/quote]

No… they aren’t.

We have left the state of nature to enter into society as it is currently constructed. “Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.” Arguments from nature, of this kind, are irrelevant once we have government and institutions.

Were Rousseau to join into this conversation, he would agree that “nature took care of the natural order,” and he would also, most likely, point out that the natural order never included energy drinks. Nor did it include schools, government, or parties.

As human beings, we have created all sorts of artificial problems that require artificial solutions.

57

[quote]Makavali wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
I think an overlooked point is that energy drinks are often cocktails of a myriad of other ingredients that often potentate the effects of caffeine. Yohimbine is an example of this. I know that some energy drinks with this give me a racing heart and shivers, whereas a drink(coffee) with an equal amount of caffeine as in the energy drink does not.

I know I was stupid enough at 16 to drink a brew of ephedra and yerba mate. Hole-e-shite was that strong!

So you learned something. God forbid someone else should do that.[/quote]

Did I mention I did an hour and 45 minutes on the elliptical right after? I’m lucky I didn’t have a heart attack.

58

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
Did I mention I did an hour and 45 minutes on the elliptical right after? I’m lucky I didn’t have a heart attack. [/quote]

LOL!

But that’s the thing - you learnt your lesson (I hope) and now you know better. Simply telling someone to not do something doesn’t work so well.

They have to get burned to get the message across.

59 
  So, what constitutes being an adult? I'm not talking about what the gov't says either. I'm less of a moron then most of the adults I come across in day to day life. If wisconsin enacts something like that I guarentee I will have no problem getting my hands on it, just like I'd have no problems with any other controlled substances. All this does is create an illegal market for red bull of all things. I'm totally capable of making my own decisions. I work, and I am going to spend the money I earned on whatever I damn well please. My parents raised me not to be a moron. If yours don't that's not anyone elses problem.

 Now tell me. If I'm old enough to have an 8 hour school day with half of my classes being college credit courses, plus homework, plus 20+ hours a week on the job, why can't I have a fucking red bull? Hell, during the school year I'm going to clock in more hours working then most adults do. Just to put that into perspective I'm working 60+ hours before I put in homework. Am I really just a child incapable of reason, and with no decision making ability?. Do I count? Am I not already close to what the real world has in store for me, while being denied basic rights?

I mean, this is coming from a 16 year old, but shit. Because some idiot cheerleader decides hydroxycut is for her, doesn’t mean I should suffer.

60

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
So, what constitutes being an adult? I’m not talking about what the gov’t says either. I’m less of a moron then most of the adults I come across in day to day life. If wisconsin enacts something like that I guarentee I will have no problem getting my hands on it, just like I’d have no problems with any other controlled substances. All this does is create an illegal market for red bull of all things. I’m totally capable of making my own decisions. I work, and I am going to spend the money I earned on whatever I damn well please. My parents raised me not to be a moron. If yours don’t that’s not anyone elses problem.

 Now tell me. If I'm old enough to have an 8 hour school day with half of my classes being college credit courses, plus homework, plus 20+ hours a week on the job, why can't I have a fucking red bull? Hell, during the school year I'm going to clock in more hours working then most adults do. Just to put that into perspective I'm working 60+ hours before I put in homework. Am I really just a child incapable of reason, and with no decision making ability?. Do I count? Am I not already close to what the real world has in store for me, while being denied basic rights?

I mean, this is coming from a 16 year old, but shit. Because some idiot cheerleader decides hydroxycut is for her, doesn’t mean I should suffer.[/quote]

Some authors claim that the ‘helpless child’ mindset is based on compulsory public schooling implemented in the west during the industrial revolution.

In the old days you married at 14 and worked like a man. Your parents taught you everything you needed to know to survive and instilled in you the importance of responsibility.

By forcing any and all children to attend schools for hours a day they separated the teenagers from their parents and encouraged conformity to the presiding learning style. Assembly line style.

This alienation from the family and forced conformity fostered dysfunction in otherwise rational teenagers.

In societies where this was never implemented ‘teenage dysfunction’ is nonexistent or much less severe. It’s being observed that as these countries adopt western practices the rate of teenage dysfunction rises.

I don’t know if that’s true but I do know that when any adult that looks at me has a preconceived notion that I’m a troublemaker and can’t be trusted with anything, it makes me angry.

What makes me even more angry is the fact that many of my peers actually support this notion with their actions.

/rant