[quote]dantheman wrote:
Like i said, don’t confuse party politics with the true concepts of liberalism, and for that matter, what the left truly is.[/quote]
I didn’t.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Seems to put the control back in the parents hands. The parents can buy them and give them to their kids, can’t they?[/quote]
No, in fact it takes parental discretion out all together. A parent would not be able to walk into a store, buy a Red Bull, and give it to their 17 year old.
These types of ‘protective’ bills are poorly worded and little thought through (if at all).
Neph claims that minors have little freedoms-- that may be true and unfortunate because that oppressive lack of freedom is beyond the scope of government as it undermines the fundamental unit of the country-- the family.
All this bill will really do is cause minors to experiment for the same caffeine high. For example, all of the ingredients are available over the counter-- say a large Starbucks and a couple shots of sublingual Vitamin B complex.
FUCK THE CHILDREN! Just leave us the fuck alone, enough with all the “for the children” laws. Every time somebody makes a law “for the children” it’s another right adults no longer have. Fuck off government.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
FUCK THE CHILDREN! Just leave us the fuck alone, enough with all the “for the children” laws. Every time somebody makes a law “for the children” it’s another right adults no longer have. Fuck off government.[/quote]
How about this scenario? Minors are allowed unfettered access to all sorts of potentially harmful substances - such as weight loss pills, energy drinks, or Spike.
A couple idiots drink three gallons of red bull and a bottle of Spike. They have heart attacks. Cheerleaders take fat loss pills at 10 times the suggested dosage and have strokes.
Do you think anyone will call for restricted sale to minors at that point? Or do you think they’ll demand an outright ban?
“For the children” laws only take rights away from adults when they either a) are not limited to children, but are applied to the entire population out of fear that somehow, somewhere, a child will be harmed, or b) the law is so restrictive on the child that his or her psyche is so permanently altered that he or she will never be able to exercise his or her own will.
Otherwise, the laws are likely to be proper: laws for children, by children. And leave the adults alone.
For the parents thinking that this ban is good:
Keep in mind that HS these days is often as difficult if not more so than college 10 years ago. I know I was doing 4 hours of homework a night, and this was serious studying not busy work. This was 6 years ago and I can only imagine what kids are doing these days.
All nighters weren’t uncommon for me as I had wrestling practice until 6 or 7 at night so I needed the energy drinks to stay awake. A 17yr old should be able to buy them the same as anyone. How do these old shits that make these laws think that minors are so dumb? When they were that age an 18 year old could buy alcohol!
Our government these days have created a policed nation and for some unknown reason society refuses to do anything about it.
The average American pisses me off.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
pat36 wrote:
FUCK THE CHILDREN! Just leave us the fuck alone, enough with all the “for the children” laws. Every time somebody makes a law “for the children” it’s another right adults no longer have. Fuck off government.
How about this scenario? Minors are allowed unfettered access to all sorts of potentially harmful substances - such as weight loss pills, energy drinks, or Spike.
A couple idiots drink three gallons of red bull and a bottle of Spike. They have heart attacks. Cheerleaders take fat loss pills at 10 times the suggested dosage and have strokes.
Do you think anyone will call for restricted sale to minors at that point? Or do you think they’ll demand an outright ban?
“For the children” laws only take rights away from adults when they either a) are not limited to children, but are applied to the entire population out of fear that somehow, somewhere, a child will be harmed, or b) the law is so restrictive on the child that his or her psyche is so permanently altered that he or she will never be able to exercise his or her own will.
Otherwise, the laws are likely to be proper: laws for children, by children. And leave the adults alone.[/quote]
I say fuck 'em. I don’t give a shit if they main line red bull and snort diet pills to the point of death. If their parent’s don’t want to pay attention to what their kids are doing, I certainly don’t. Maybe if we put the responsibility back on the parents, they just might be more responsible. We don’t need government nannies. If people don’t want to be responsible for their or their children’s actions I am willing to let evolution take it’s course.
For the children laws open the door for government control. That is something we need FAR less of, not more.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
pat36 wrote:
FUCK THE CHILDREN! Just leave us the fuck alone, enough with all the “for the children” laws. Every time somebody makes a law “for the children” it’s another right adults no longer have. Fuck off government.
How about this scenario? Minors are allowed unfettered access to all sorts of potentially harmful substances - such as weight loss pills, energy drinks, or Spike.
A couple idiots drink three gallons of red bull and a bottle of Spike. They have heart attacks. Cheerleaders take fat loss pills at 10 times the suggested dosage and have strokes.
Do you think anyone will call for restricted sale to minors at that point? Or do you think they’ll demand an outright ban?
“For the children” laws only take rights away from adults when they either a) are not limited to children, but are applied to the entire population out of fear that somehow, somewhere, a child will be harmed, or b) the law is so restrictive on the child that his or her psyche is so permanently altered that he or she will never be able to exercise his or her own will.
Otherwise, the laws are likely to be proper: laws for children, by children. And leave the adults alone.[/quote]
What’s wrong with lettig the stupid people die? It’s just another case of where the few dumbasses ruin it for everyone else.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
For the parents thinking that this ban is good:
Keep in mind that HS these days is often as difficult if not more so than college 10 years ago. I know I was doing 4 hours of homework a night, and this was serious studying not busy work. This was 6 years ago and I can only imagine what kids are doing these days.
All nighters weren’t uncommon for me as I had wrestling practice until 6 or 7 at night so I needed the energy drinks to stay awake. A 17yr old should be able to buy them the same as anyone. How do these old shits that make these laws think that minors are so dumb? When they were that age an 18 year old could buy alcohol!
Our government these days have created a policed nation and for some unknown reason society refuses to do anything about it.
The average American pisses me off.
[/quote]
What the heck were you studying?
I was in HS not too long ago myself, and I don’t remember having more than 45 minutes to an hour of HW on a typical night, if even that much.
My SR year, I took college credit math and physics classes that were harder than anything I had my freshman year of college, and I still didn’t have more than ~90 minutes to 2 hrs of regular nightly HW.
On the whole, college at my large, state University was a hell of a lot harder and more time consuming than my days at my public high school.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
What’s wrong with lettig the stupid people die? It’s just another case of where the few dumbasses ruin it for everyone else.[/quote]
It isn’t very pragmatic. I don’t think either you or pat got the point of my previous post. If we do NOT limit the access minors have to certain things, the practical result is likely to be sensationalized accounts of the dangers of to those same things. Which puts all of our access to these substances at risk.
And if you “need” to drink energy drinks to pass high school, then I think you probably need to reevaluate your extra-curricular activities or your course load. I can’t keep track of the number of students I had who wanted to participate in three school sports (taking up every evening and weekend) and then were surprised that their academics suffered.
Your job while you are in high school is to STUDY and do HOMEWORK. NOT make the wrestling team, not score the winning touchdown, NOT be the star goalie for the team. If you can’t hack it, drugs are not the answer, be they legal or illegal. Why? Because, ultimately: what you do in high school doesn’t matter. But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.[/quote]
Yet, you oppose public smoking bans. That’s pretty inconsistent if you ask me.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
What’s wrong with lettig the stupid people die? It’s just another case of where the few dumbasses ruin it for everyone else.
It isn’t very pragmatic. I don’t think either you or pat got the point of my previous post. If we do NOT limit the access minors have to certain things, the practical result is likely to be sensationalized accounts of the dangers of to those same things. Which puts all of our access to these substances at risk.
And if you “need” to drink energy drinks to pass high school, then I think you probably need to reevaluate your extra-curricular activities or your course load. I can’t keep track of the number of students I had who wanted to participate in three school sports (taking up every evening and weekend) and then were surprised that their academics suffered.
Your job while you are in high school is to STUDY and do HOMEWORK. NOT make the wrestling team, not score the winning touchdown, NOT be the star goalie for the team. If you can’t hack it, drugs are not the answer, be they legal or illegal. Why? Because, ultimately: what you do in high school doesn’t matter. But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.[/quote]
If you want to keep this stuff out of the hands of dumbasses, you’ll have to put an IQ limit on the stuff, not an age limit. I have seen adult stupidity trump teenager stupidity on an epic level. Somebody will do some thing dumb with this stuff and die, it is a virtual certainty. Yes, it will be sensationalized anyway but setting an age limit is the first step to banning it out right.
[quote]lixy wrote:
nephorm wrote:
But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.
Yet, you oppose public smoking bans. That’s pretty inconsistent if you ask me.[/quote]
It’s actually quite consistent with what I’m saying here. I don’t think children should be able to purchase cigarettes. I think adults should be able to decide for themselves. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to prohibit sales of energy drinks to minors. But I think adults should be able to decide for themselves.
I also think that a growing body has a lot of potential to be screwed up irreparably such that normal development will never take place. Which means that we are permitting a larger potential burden than we reasonably need to.
Do I think that adults should have the choice to patronize a bar in which people smoke? Absolutely. Do I think children should also be given carte blanche to frequent such establishments? No.
I also support scaling back the safety net for poor choices. If you ban things because you know that society will collectively have to shoulder the burden, you reinforce that political behavior. Let the bans go away, and let the burden rise… and we’ll see something happen.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
The average American pisses me off.[/quote]
Wait - let me be the first to ask: you must be above average then, right?
Another question: are parents outraged by this? Or are they generally ok with the proposal?
If parents aren’t particularly offended by it - what is the problem?
I have no idea - but I wouldn’t be surprised if parents generally were endorsing the proposal.
[quote]lixy wrote:
nephorm wrote:
But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.
Yet, you oppose public smoking bans. That’s pretty inconsistent if you ask me.[/quote]
He’s talking about kids.
lixy wrote:
nephorm wrote:
But if you give yourself a heart condition, I pay for you for the rest of my life.
Yet, you oppose public smoking bans. That’s pretty inconsistent if you ask me.
He’s talking about kids.
you know, those little things your kind likes to have sex with.
Hey! Look who made the news!
Officials Want School Ban On Energy Drinks
HILLSBOROUGH, N.J. (AP) �?? They can be popular because they’re sweet, they give you a lift and they have hip-sounding names like Red Bull and Spike Shooter.
But school officials across the country aren’t as buzzed about caffeinated energy drinks as some of their students. They’re worried about young people gulping down too much caffeine�??and getting so hyper that they lose focus on their studies.
“Being hepped up on caffeine can be a distraction to your learning,” said Joe Trybulski, principal of Hillsborough Middle School in central New Jersey.
Full Story:
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Energy.Drinks.Schools.2.780575.html
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Maine Rep. Troy Jackson (D-Allagash) introduced Maine LD 2034, “An Act to Prohibit the Sale of Energy Drinks to Minors.”
Minors (ie. Under 18) will not be able to purchase or receive “Energy Drinks”. It will be illegal to sell or distribute them to minors.
“Energy Drink” is defined (in the bill as):
“Energy drink” means a soft drink that contains 80 or more milligrams of caffeine per 8 fluid ounces advertised as being specifically designed to provide energy and generally including a combination of methylxanthines, B vitamins and herbal ingredients."
Such is life in the Nanny state of Maine, where politicians know better than parents.
Article Link: http://www.asmainegoes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52063
Thoughts?
[/quote]
Despite the fact that long-term use of these products could cause potential health problems, it sure as hell isnt Big Brother’s role or right to determine who can or cannot consume these products unless their is an extreme risk of life or death (which of course their isnt if dranken reasonably)
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Does anyone really think it is good for minors to purchase or use energy drinks? Is it really unreasonable to put limits on what minors can purchase when they are unsupervised by parents? I have no problem prohibiting the sale of cigarettes, alcohol, or virtually anything else to minors when parents are not available to give consent.
Although, I agree with thunderbolt that the hypocrisy is staggering; the left sees minors as capable of deciding whether or not to have sex and abort a fetus, but incapable of deciding whether or not to drink a Red Bull. Amazing.[/quote]
Agree with both points.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
pat36 wrote:
FUCK THE CHILDREN! Just leave us the fuck alone, enough with all the “for the children” laws. Every time somebody makes a law “for the children” it’s another right adults no longer have. Fuck off government.
How about this scenario? Minors are allowed unfettered access to all sorts of potentially harmful substances - such as weight loss pills, energy drinks, or Spike.
A couple idiots drink three gallons of red bull and a bottle of Spike. They have heart attacks. Cheerleaders take fat loss pills at 10 times the suggested dosage and have strokes.
Do you think anyone will call for restricted sale to minors at that point? Or do you think they’ll demand an outright ban?
“For the children” laws only take rights away from adults when they either a) are not limited to children, but are applied to the entire population out of fear that somehow, somewhere, a child will be harmed, or b) the law is so restrictive on the child that his or her psyche is so permanently altered that he or she will never be able to exercise his or her own will.
Otherwise, the laws are likely to be proper: laws for children, by children. And leave the adults alone.[/quote]
Supporting such laws only empowers the government to parent your children…My kids don’t drink energy drinks because I don’t let them. I do not want the government to raise my kids, they have no right to do so.
If a kid kills themselves on energy supplements, you won’t have to search hard to find sorry ass parenting right behind it.
If we allow the government to raise our kids because we’re to damned lazy to do it ourselves they are going to be some corrupt assholes. I do not want government in indoctrination for my children. My parents went through to much to make sure I was raised in a free society only to give up freedom willingly,; it just not going to happen.