Hi,
I was wondering if some people here try different protocols for MAG-10 legacy cycles and compared the results on each.
For i.e. :
compared to the original protocol :
How were your gains on such cycles?
Thanks for any input.
When I took MAG-10 the majority of the weight gain was very quick into the 2 weeks. You will need something for your sex-drive though. It felt like MAG-10 soothed my joints a lot. MAG-10 would be fantastic with test and 'strol or var. You will probably need an anti-e while on like nolvadex or something. Good luck.
I can’t tell you from MAG-10 specifically, but generally when comparing steroid cycles with the same total dosages over time, at the 8 week point results will be somewhat better from 2 on / 2 off /2 on / 2 off than from 4 on / 4 off.
Probably two reasons explain this:
So your body gets this effect twice, and has the strength increase occur before the second phase of this program, thus benefitting it.
The more important reason I would guess is the consolidation effect in the off weeks between the two week cycles gives the body overall say at least 6 weeks to be gaining strength – the “on” weeks plus the first of each two “off” weeks – whereas with the 4 week cycle, probably only 5 weeks for strength increase; and additionally with the 2-week cycles by having the little break period, the body is ready to gain faster than in the 4-week case where gains have already been occurring for say 3 weeks. So it’s two periods of the same total time but faster rate.
Another reason is that recovery is about immediate with the 2 on / 2 off program so the only “losses” are of glycogen and water in the muscles, I think, whereas with longer cycles, even a mere 4 weeks, there tends to be some actual loss of muscle protein mass I think. Not gigantic especially with only a 4 week cycle, but not zero either.
As to why recovery rate is different, a reason is that at the 2-week point of exposure to high androgen, the sensitivity of the hypothalamus to LH-releasing-hormone from the pituitary is even higher than baseline, so LH production is very good immediately; whereas past the 2-week point LHRH responsiveness goes far below baseline, from the scientific research; and takes some time to recover. So LH production is not immediately good upon the end of cycles longer than 2 weeks. Thus, more tendency to actual losses.
I don’t think MAG-10 would differ from everything else in how cycling works in these regards.
Bill,
You replied to my question on the purines in Metabolic Drive - thanks again. I saw a Rheumatologist today and he said I had some form of arthritis TBD. Rheumatoid blood test came back normal as well as lipids but he said that the antibodies had to build up over time before a blood test would be conclusive. He took more blood to check liver, red blood cells etc today.
I’m currently on Prednisone to get the swelling down - I know bad news but it’s a short run and the swelling needs to go down so no choice there. I’ve never had joints swell before however.
I’m 35, relatively healthy, work out, supplement, eat right hardcore - well accept for the last three months of last year before all this happened - very bad diet, got sick, had to take antibiotics which could have spawned this, heavy stress, etc…
My question would be, if the additional blood work and months to come prove to be fine for me with no flare ups God willing, could “someone” recommend a cycle of prohormones or steriods to gain muscle to help support the joints more. More muscle better joints right?
If yes, and if there was a choice for a first time user would that someone opt for MAG-10 Legacy, and two bottles of MAG-10, which could be aquired somewhere or go to a new age doc to get tests and get perscription help?
Thanks, I respect you and everyone’s opinion here and am a bit freaked out about all the joint swelling and of course my future - I’ve got kids you know. 
Any addtionaly advice I would be grateful for also. thanks!
3-4 weeks of nolva after a MAG-10 cycle, really? That doesn’t seem appropriate to me, even with a 4 week cycle. I’d think maybe 7-10 days of nolva with a half dose of Alpha Male and a full dose of Alpha Male after that for a short time. I’ve never seen extensive nolva use recommended after a longterm MAG-10 cycle.
Hopefully the blood work will come out good!
I’m not sure of the idea of more muscle helping support the joints, and unfortunately I think it’s dubious.
If the problem were cartilage being lacking then it might be the case that anabolic steroids could help at least in theory. I don’t know where that’s been demonstrated in man.
But that doesn’t sound like the problem; it sounds like an immune problem.
That makes things complex or at least beyond my ability to figure out since androgens modulate the immune system so without specialist knowledge on this exact problem it’s perhaps impossible to say what might help or aggravate.
There is an effect unrelated to that wherein at least one steroid, nandrolone, has a reputation for helping joints (but perhaps not in immune situations, I don’t know) and at least one can sometimes aggravate, stanozolol. I’ve guessed that that is due to one of them, the first, being somewhat of a progestin as well as an androgen, while the other is an anti-progestin. That may not be of help, other than the point that if trying an androgen, I’d avoid Winstrol in your case. I don’t know that the Deca would. I hope there will be no need anyway!
Thanks Bill, once again. If it is an immune problem such as RA, Lupus so far seems to be ruled out, should I avoid Alpha Male in the future - I would assume it would be ok. Any other thoughts on the immune system front?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hopefully the blood work will come out good!
I’m not sure of the idea of more muscle helping support the joints, and unfortunately I think it’s dubious.
If the problem were cartilage being lacking then it might be the case that anabolic steroids could help at least in theory. I don’t know where that’s been demonstrated in man.
But that doesn’t sound like the problem; it sounds like an immune problem.
That makes things complex or at least beyond my ability to figure out since androgens modulate the immune system so without specialist knowledge on this exact problem it’s perhaps impossible to say what might help or aggravate.
There is an effect unrelated to that wherein at least one steroid, nandrolone, has a reputation for helping joints (but perhaps not in immune situations, I don’t know) and at least one can sometimes aggravate, stanozolol. I’ve guessed that that is due to one of them, the first, being somewhat of a progestin as well as an androgen, while the other is an anti-progestin. That may not be of help, other than the point that if trying an androgen, I’d avoid Winstrol in your case. I don’t know that the Deca would. I hope there will be no need anyway![/quote]
Bill,
I would like to Thank you very much for your input in this thread. It is really appreciated.
Sure thing!
Bill,
would anavar be a good thing to stack with MAG-10? is it effective when only used for 2 weeks? or could you do 2 weeks MAG-10 and anavar, 2 weeks anavar only and then 2 weeks MAG-10 and anavar again?
If having a choice between one or the other I would stack a Class II, for example Dianabol or Anadrol, with MAG-10 rather than a Class I such as oxandrfolone. Class I meaning, a compound that works well at the androgen receptor and Class II being one that works mostly by other means.
The reason is I think MAG-10 is stronger in its Class I properties than Class II, that is to say the A-1E is doing a better and quite good job of covering that base while the 4-AD-EC is working very signicantly as a Class II but not to the fullest extent.
However, if all one has is a Class I it would still add something even to 2x/day MAG-10 use, and certainly to 1x/day use. In fact, with 1x/day I would definitely recommend adding about half the amount of another Class I that one would use by itself. Best of all in that situation would be adding a Class II as well.
bill, is tbol class II?
I don’t know.
The way to tell, for any of them, is from stacking experiments. Adding a Class II to a Class I will generate a great improvement in results, while adding a Class I to a Class I that already is being taken in a good dose will give only a marginal increase.
That I have done with many steroids but not with Turinabol and I don’t have a basis from athletes on it either.
I would guess Class II because almost all of the 17-methyl compounds are, except for oxandrolone (which also is odd in another way, having the 2-oxa) and methyltestosterone, which is mixed, that is to say having both properties.
But without specific evidence there’s a chance that’s wrong and it might be Class I or mixed.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If having a choice between one or the other I would stack a Class II, for example Dianabol or Anadrol, with MAG-10 rather than a Class I such as oxandrfolone. Class I meaning, a compound that works well at the androgen receptor and Class II being one that works mostly by other means.
The reason is I think MAG-10 is stronger in its Class I properties than Class II, that is to say the A-1E is doing a better and quite good job of covering that base while the 4-AD-EC is working very signicantly as a Class II but not to the fullest extent.
However, if all one has is a Class I it would still add something even to 2x/day MAG-10 use, and certainly to 1x/day use. In fact, with 1x/day I would definitely recommend adding about half the amount of another Class I that one would use by itself. Best of all in that situation would be adding a Class II as well.[/quote]
So for Anavar, what would that be? 40 or 50 mgs a day?
That added to MAG-10 at 1x/day would be a quite significant improvement and at 2x/day still some improvement I would guess.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
That added to MAG-10 at 1x/day would be a quite significant improvement and at 2x/day still some improvement I would guess.[/quote]
What kind of PCT do you think that’d require? I’d imagine nolva might not be adequate like it is for MAG-10 alone.
Really not: anything that’s really effective at all, sole exception being if it’s a once-a-day-in-the-morning dosing of a short-acting oral, is suppressive, and basically suppressive is suppressive.
In other words MAG-10 at 2x/day is probably as suppressive as anything. Possibly at 1x/day also because it is not so short-acting.
However, if the cycle plan is only 2 weeks on, recovery is naturally so good at that point that pharmaceuticals aren’t needed. TRIBEX will help and I suppose Alpha Male also though I haven’t done that experiment, but even with nothing recovery is pretty good at 2 weeks.
On the other hand, if planning to go a longer period of time I would want Clomid regardless of whether anything was added to the MAG-10 or not.
Thanks Bill. Interesting. Clomid as opposed to nolva. At what dose would you suggest for the MAG-10 alone? And would the PCT change at all with the added anavar? What would you recommend then?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Really not: anything that’s really effective at all, sole exception being if it’s a once-a-day-in-the-morning dosing of a short-acting oral, is suppressive, and basically suppressive is suppressive.
In other words MAG-10 at 2x/day is probably as suppressive as anything. Possibly at 1x/day also because it is not so short-acting.
However, if the cycle plan is only 2 weeks on, recovery is naturally so good at that point that pharmaceuticals aren’t needed. TRIBEX will help and I suppose Alpha Male also though I haven’t done that experiment, but even with nothing recovery is pretty good at 2 weeks.
On the other hand, if planning to go a longer period of time I would want Clomid regardless of whether anything was added to the MAG-10 or not.[/quote]
I was speaking of proper PCT for a hypothetical 4 week cycle, either of MAG-10 alone or MAG-10 with anavar, though I saw your post about 2 weeks being preferable. And that’s something to certainly think about.
Oh, and I missed where you asked what dose, with regard to Clomid: 50 mg/day except for day 1 which is loaded up with six 50 mg tabs.
Reason being is that if this is not done, but only one tab is taken per day, it takes weeks to get to the correct level, whereas this gets you there immediately.