He wants something with a quick learning curve, and grappling certainly isn’t one of the MA’s with quick learning curves. Sure, it’s fun as hell and very useful, but it takes awile to become proficient, as Stu said. If he were to take it as a hobby for a long time, I would definitely go grappling with some striking involved. In my grappling class, we go no strikes or neck cranks due to dangers. When we spar MMA style, when we get mount position, we can strike to the head, but only with an open fist and lightly. Just kind of a way of saying “I’m here and I can really hurt you” type thing. All other strikes are allowed in stand up and on the ground. It’s fun. The first time I did it, I got my ass kicked in stand up (he’s an amateur kickboxer) but I took him down and submitted him quickly. Damn that felt good.
Justin,
The learning curve is not as long as you think. At least not in order to be able to defend yourself. I can take any athlete who has never stepped on a mat and with in two or three months he will be more than able to defend himself.
If quick defense is the goal then I do not think that going to a traditional martial arts class, or even boxing could be faster.
Yeah, I know that. I’ve only taken submission grappling for almost 3 months now, and I’m about to start entering tourneys because I’m dominating people that have been there longer. Of course, there are 2 or 3 others who are even matches, and it’s usually us 4 that roll with each other. One guy did BJJ for a year, another was a collegiate wrestler and the third is just a badass. We do extra sessions on our own at the gym, just to get really good. I just thought that boxing would be a better choice for starting out.
Stu - in Judo, I know it’s basically throws and elbow locks, but do you learn any strikes at all?
There are a few formal, ritualistic strikes that are included at the higher levels. The only problem is that they’re about as useful as a snorkle and fins when you’re fighting.
However, when you throw someone hard (even on mats) who’s not used to it they won’t get up again in a hurry. . . Especially when their head hits right after their body.
STU
i’d vote for bjj, though i’ve never tried boxing.
who cares how long it takes to move up a belt. what’s important is how long it takes to learn something useful, and that happens pretty quick in bjj. after three months you’ll be amazed at how easily you can control someone with no grappling experience.
plus, it is a great workout. most classes start with a workout, running, pushups, jumping jacks, etc. (not my favorite part), then move on to a new technique and then grappling. grappling all out with someone for 5-15 minutes is a crazy workout. you are pulling and pushing as hard as you can with all sorts of different muscles for a good portion of that time. although, the better you get, the less pushing and pulling involved (you learn when to go hard and when not to).
anyway, i’m sure there are lots of things that would be good, but i’d vote for bjj.
Is there any striking at all in bjj?
sometimes yes, there is. I do submission grappling, which is BJJ sans gi, no striking (kickboxing class is right before it). BJJ is basically takedowns and ground fighting. It’s a means of controlling a larger, stronger opponent by using leverage. For instance, take an armbar. You are fighting against a much stronger person. You get him an an armbar, and bam, he’s weaker. Why? Because the leverage of your entire body vs his arm. Which is gonna win?
A lot of BJJ places are dicks. There’s a place by me that has a bunch of assholes in it. The guys are A) egotistical and B) secretive. If you tap out, they won’t stop putting the move on you. If you don’t tap, due to ego, you will get hurt. We usually tap at the first sign of pain or when you know you have the hold in well, you let go. It’s safety. I want to be doing this for a long time, so I’m not gonna risk anything.
I still think boxing/kickboxing is a better choice.
Justin,
You are smart to stay away from the BJJ schools that practice that sort of art.
I trained one summer with one of the best, Royce Gracie, and while we trained dam hard, there were no injuries involved. He is a real pro and a real gentleman!
By the way, in case you were wondering I never tapped him out. Ha.
I personally think that MMA has the shortest learning curve.
At Team Quest, I have seen guys go from no experience to competent fighters in a year.
The key is keeping it simple, and not trying to teach every technique in the book, just the ones that are most effective.
Also, some people are better on the ground, some better at standup, so the learning curve is different for each individual.
The beauty of MMA, is you usually have a variety of classes to choose from. If you prefer standup fighting, you can focus on that. If the ground game suits you, concentrate on that. Who know, you may just find out that you like both.
ZEB,
My instructor took grappling/sambo for 6 years. The mofo is GOOD. I try to roll with him when I can, but he always handicaps himself, which is fine, because if he didn’t, talk about a whooping and a record time of submission. Anyways, he was handicapping himself, as usual, and I almost surprised him with an ankle lock, but dammit, he immediately got me in a heel hook and tapped me out. How unfair. 
For real though, SackOCrack, I think boxing is a better choice. Sure, you can become proficient at BJJ and be able to defend yourself, but, you’d have to be able to get that person in a position to defend yourself, which is usually on the ground. If you’re in a fight, his buddies might be around waiting to kick you in the head. Just some thought.
Justin,
Do you guys ever work on standing techniques? We do and they are very helpful in street confrontaions.
I do kickboxing and muay thai, so my stand up techniques are fine. I’m happy with them. I know takedowns also, just from watching, but those are easy.
just one question.
people always criticize bjj for not being able to deal with multiple opponents.
is boxing (or any other art) any better at multiple opponents?
i sure wouldn’t want to box 1 on 5. nor would i want to wrestle 1 on 5. etc.
1 against 5 = screwed.
Boxing is better for multiple opponents only in that you can hopefully punch someone HARD once and then run like a mutherfucker. Also most boxing schools encourage running as part of the training and that part is easily applied to multiple attackers. Unless your Mosley don’t stand and fight with more then one guy if you can, run away fast.
SackOCrack you sound like you’re interested in striking why not go take a free class or two and see if you like it. The only reason I tried boxing is because there were a lot of hot girls in the club. Next thing I know I’m addicted to boxing.
Give it a try and see if its for you.
I think its just that once you are using ground combat, it is pretty impossible to fight multiple people. However, if you can keep your feet, you can fend off multiple attackers easier, and escape if need be. At least that would make sense to me.
dude, it’s the style of the art. no art can take 1 on 5. It’s just that on the ground, your more likely to get your ass beat than on your feet.
The grappling is no good against multiple opponents slogan was begun by traditional martial artists who realized how effective that grappling had become vs their styles. They saw their little empires crumbling and that didn’t feel to good.
So, the logical excuse became “yea but grappling is no good against multiple people”. Guess what? Neither is Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, or any of the other “traditional” martial arts taught in this country.
For years all of the Bruce Lee type movies were believed by the kids practicing the traditional arts. When the Gracies and the UFC came along that myth was debunked.
The fact is if you have even a two on one situation and the other two guys are about your size and close to your strength you are going to probably lose. Regardless of what art you studied.
Some myths die hard.
By the way the other myth perpetuated by these traditionalists, is this: “Those UFC fighters may be tough in the octagon, but in the street where my instructor can use his ‘lethal’ techniques, those guys would be toast”.
Yea, and I suppose a guy like Tito or Randy Coture are not able to gouge eyes, strike to the groin, or even bite for that matter. They are just to stupid to figure it out. Wrong!
The traditional martial artists, will do and say anything to hang onto their students. And a respect that was rooted in lies regarding the lethal black belts ability to win regardless of the amount of opponents or their athletic ability etc. It’s about trying keep that prestige, that invulnerable mystique and most importantly, money!
ZEB, while I agree with some of what you say, there are some benefits to traditional martial arts, such as instilling discipline and general fitness.
Especially true for kids and older adults who don’t want to or can’t go all out in sparring safely.
On the main point I would agree with ko in that someplace that offers both striking and grappling would be a good option. Both offer tremendous workouts and are fun.
As for the learning curve issue - personally I think its fun when one realizes how much more there is to learn - The sense of awe I get when watching my bjj instructors go at it come to mind.
BTW: Randy Couture IS superman.
ko- you are quite fortunate to train at Quest.
If there was an mma place on campus with striking and grappling, id take it. I know these have quick learning curves due to their application of fighting, but alas, I have yet to find one near me.