Can suppression of natural test cause a low white blood cell count? I just got bloodwork done and needed antibiotics for an infection, the doctor was a little concerned at my WBC count.
I just started a tbol/prop cycle 9 days ago and wanted to see how the tbol felt before adding prop, so I ran the tbol @ 40mg, by itself, for 7-8 days. I am wondering if I started to suppress enough of my natural test and, possibly estrogen too, to cause a low white blood cell count? Or does low test/estrogen/both not cause this??
[quote]mopchopper wrote:
Can suppression of natural test cause a low white blood cell count? I just got bloodwork done and needed antibiotics for an infection, the doctor was a little concerned at my WBC count.
I just started a tbol/prop cycle 9 days ago and wanted to see how the tbol felt before adding prop, so I ran the tbol @ 40mg, by itself, for 7-8 days. I am wondering if I started to suppress enough of my natural test and, possibly estrogen too, to cause a low white blood cell count? Or does low test/estrogen/both not cause this??[/quote]
Did he do a differential count? While the sex hormones are necessary in a lot of things, including the function of your immune system, natural hormones vs artificial hormones make no difference in that regard. If anything, your WBC count should be high because of inflammation from injection sites as well as fighting off that infection you have.
A seriously low WBC count can be indicative of other problems, including immunosuppressive disorders. If your bloodwork only included total WBCs, and not differential counts (ie neutrophils vs monocytes vs basophils vs etc…). Abnormal counts in each of these indicate different disorders. A diff count is a good starting point before ordering further tests or seeing a hematologist.
Go back, get that done, proceed in an orderly fashion to get to the bottom of your low count.
Well do you think continuing with the cycle is a bad idea? I was thinking the test may help boost immune system.
I wonder if there is a natural fluctuation in WBC count during transitions on and off compounds/test. This would make me worry less about the situation.
I do not have health insurance so it is a rare thing for me to see a doctor, I would have a hard time doing alot of wild goose chase tests to find out more unless it is extremely neccessary.
[quote]mopchopper wrote:
Well do you think continuing with the cycle is a bad idea? I was thinking the test may help boost immune system.
I wonder if there is a natural fluctuation in WBC count during transitions on and off compounds/test. This would make me worry less about the situation.
I do not have health insurance so it is a rare thing for me to see a doctor, I would have a hard time doing alot of wild goose chase tests to find out more unless it is extremely neccessary.[/quote]
I see no problem in continuing with the cycle. With no HI, it’s at your discretion, but after your PCT is finished, I would go get your bloodwork redone. There is natural fluctuations but the normal is 6000-10000 which is a broad range and takes into account those fluctuations.
edit: and this time make sure your WBC count is differential so you get your money’s worth.
when you say differential, are you saying that they count which type or types are low instead of just the general overall count?
[quote]mopchopper wrote:
when you say differential, are you saying that they count which type or types are low instead of just the general overall count?[/quote]
Exactly, they do individual counts for monocytes, basophils, neutrophils, etc… All different types of WBCs. Low or high counts in certain types are more indicative of certain disorders.
I’ve read that problems with the thyroid can cause low WBC, I am wondering if the tbol by itself negatively affected my thyroid. This would explain the timing between the use of the tbol and the symptoms I had that were associated with the low WBC, ie: lethargy, tightness in the chest and difficulty breathing, and easily suseptable to infection. All of this was after about 1 week of tbol by itself…I dicontinued the tbol and started prop at 7-8 days in, its been 5 days on prop and I am back working out and feeling alot better. My guess is if I got another test done, my count would be elevated back to normal (hopefully). Any thoughts on the possibilty of the tbol causing this???
[quote]mopchopper wrote:
I’ve read that problems with the thyroid can cause low WBC, I am wondering if the tbol by itself negatively affected my thyroid. This would explain the timing between the use of the tbol and the symptoms I had that were associated with the low WBC, ie: lethargy, tightness in the chest and difficulty breathing, and easily suseptable to infection. All of this was after about 1 week of tbol by itself…I dicontinued the tbol and started prop at 7-8 days in, its been 5 days on prop and I am back working out and feeling alot better. My guess is if I got another test done, my count would be elevated back to normal (hopefully). Any thoughts on the possibilty of the tbol causing this???[/quote]
Sorry, I’ve been away for a few days.
Can’t really make guesses like that, unfortunately, since human physiology is a complicated thing, where one problem could have a massive range of several causes, one of which needs to be pinpointed as the problem.
I have no experience with turinabol, so I can’t comment on its effects in this regard, but maybe another more seasoned member can.
As far as the thyroid goes: Proper thyroid function is imperative to immune function, but wouldn’t cause that massive of a decrease in WBC count in such a short time. WBC’s live for a finite lifetime, from 5 days to 3 weeks, depending on the WBC type. Therefore, it’s a practical impossibility for a drug to cause your immune function to shut down that fast, and for enough WBC’s to die within that period to cause a massive drop in a count.
I know it’s frustrating when you are looking for reasons other than a physiological one for a medical problem, but we all have to smell the roses at one point, and man up to get to the bottom of it.
Tbol is a class II oral steroid. It isn’t progestinish or anything like that that would cause an effect which other steroid wouldnt cause. I bet dht is the hormone that can regulate immune function, I doubt estrogen does in males, and testosterone is mostly active in muscles. Tbol activates dht, so there you go, theory disproved. A healthy person will have a certain lower threshold for their wbc, even with slight hypogonadism, hypothyroidism(?)or anything else like that. I have no idea if your wbc is low-normal, or very low. Also, tbol can have mild side effects like lethargy.
Whether or not tbol could in theory affect wbc is irrelevant to the possibilty of you having a medical issue, you should get tested and ask your doctor whats up. Being on testosterone might give you more energy, but you cant use your energy level as a way to detect the number of wbcs that are swimming around in your lymph.