Low T, New to TRT

That sounds like high estrogen, the fight or flight also sounds like high estrogen. You might even feel over angry at minor things. You might need a dosage reduction, but SHBG is expected to decrease by at least 10 point in 6 weeks, so actually I would say breaking up your shots into smaller ones and decreasing the dosage slightly stands a better chance of lowering estrogen.

If your levels are too high, you’ll know pretty fast if lowering the dosage is the right move.

Do it, but it may take a week to get the estrogen results from Labcorp, but at least you’ll have an answer.

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Going to order labs now. Will post back once I have results.

Make sure you run the sensitive E2 test, the LC/MS/MS method.

Ok got it I am going to use the labcorp 140244 (Estradiol, Sensitive, LC/MS/MS) test.

@grinnin

You don’t have to order the LC/MS/MS test.

The ECLIA test (aka immunoassay or IA) for E2 management is commonly used for those on TRT. It is not an incorrect test or a test for women, but simply one way to check estradiol levels. The other commonly utilized test is the LC/MS/MS method (aka liquid chromatography dual mass spectrometry, sensitive or ultrasensitive). It is the more expensive of the two. There are inherent advantages and disadvantages to each of these two methods. I have been fortunate to be able to speak with professionals who work with both methods. One is a PhD researcher for Pfizer and the other is a medical doctor at Quest. I’ll summarize their comments.

The ECLIA method is the more reliable of the two in terms of consistent results. The equipment is easier to operate thus accuracy is less reliant on the skill of the operator. If the same sample were to be tested twenty times, there would be very little, if any, difference in the results.

The ECLIA method is not as “sensitive” in that it will not pick up E2 levels below 15pg/mL. If your E2 level with this test is 1-14pg/mL, the reported result will be “<15”. Because of this, it is not recommended for menopausal women, men in whom very low levels of E2 are suspected, or children. In other words, if your levels are below 15pg/mL, and it is important to know if the level is 1 or 14pg/mL, you do not want this test. For us, this is likely moot, since if you are experiencing low E2 symptoms and your test comes back at <15, you have your answer. For a woman being treated with anti-estrogen therapy for breast cancer, it may be necessary to know if the E2 level is zero or fourteen because therapeutically, they want zero estrogen.

A disadvantage to IA testing is that it may pick up other steroid metabolites, which in men would be very low levels, but still could alter the result. Another potential disadvantage is that elevated levels of C-reactive protein (CRP) may elevate the result. CRP is elevated in serious infections, cancer, auto-immune diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis and other rheumatoid diseases, cardiovascular disease and morbid obesity. Even birth control pills could increase CRP. A normal CRP level is 0-5 to 10mg/L. In the referenced illnesses, CRP can go over 100, or even over 200mg/L. Unless battling one of these serious conditions, CRP interference is unlikely.

The LC/MS/MS method will pick up lower E2 levels and would be indicated in menopausal women and some men if very low E2 levels are suspected and it is desired to know exactly how low, children and the previously mentioned women on anti-estrogen therapy. It will not be influenced by elevated CRP levels or other steroid metabolites.

While some may believe the ECLIA test is for women, on the contrary, as it pertains to women on anti-estrogen therapy, such as breast cancer patients, the LC/MS/MS is the test for women as CRP levels are a consideration and it is necessary to know if the treatment has achieved an estrogen level of zero.

On the other side of the coin, LC/MS/MS equipment is “temperamental” (as stated by the PhD who operates both) and results are more likely to be inconsistent. Because of this, researchers will often run the same sample multiple times.

It is not clear if FDA approval is significant, but this appears on Quest’s lab reports: This test was developed, and its analytical performance characteristics have been determined by Quest Diagnostics Nichols Institute San Juan Capistrano. It has not been cleared or approved by FDA. This assay has been validated pursuant to the CLIA regulations and is used for clinical purposes. This statement is on LabCorp’s results: This test was developed and its performance characteristics determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration.

It is unlikely that any difference in the same sample run through both methods will be clinically significant. Estradiol must be evaluated, and it should be checked initially and ongoing after starting TRT. It obviously makes sense to use the same method throughout. Most important are previous history and symptoms related to low or high E2. Those are correlated with before and after lab results. Any estradiol management should not be utilized without symptoms confirmed by lab results.

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Just wanted to check in and update everyone. For the last 2 weeks I have been making notes of how I feel. It seems that on the day of my injection but before I inject my random erections, libido, and mood are better than when I inject. After I inject the next 3 days until the day of my injection are worse. Almost as though I’m experiencing high E2 following injection and then it levels off once I reach day 3. How could this be on such a small dose?

When you inject testosterone, it will take days for your body to start using it and even then it will tale longer for your body to adapt.

Okay labs were done this morning… will post full lab work here shortly. One thing I wanted to discuss is pre-TRT/versus my journey so far on T. Prior to testosterone my libido might have been lower but it was consistent, and my erections were more dependable and way more spontaneous, hardly ever currently. Since starting TRT both of these things have become inconsistent. Sometimes minimal libido/erections and other times non existent libido. Is TRT a constant up and down cycle for libido/mood/erections even after steady-state has been reached? I guess I am looking for someone to chime in and say that they have experienced stable mood, libido, erections for a long duration on TRT. I fear that this will be a lifetime of fluctuations… I read and read so many experience issues dialing in for years. I wonder if TRT was the right choice given 382 TT. I keep thinking maybe I could have done something naturally to re-gain my normal levels. My sleep schedule has never been good (gf says I snore very loudly), I am stressed from my job all of the time, and my diet consists of zero vegetables. Could my testosterone levels have been lower due to the above, and was TRT the right choice. My doc says I can always restart with Clomid… What is everyone’s thoughts on all of this?

Also for what its worth… At 20 years old (4 years ago) my TT came back 285 ng/dl, doc prescribed clomid 50mg every day… after 4 weeks my TT was 1263 ng/dl and E2 was 55… indicating Secondary hypogonadism at the time. After that I discontinued the clomid and went on to live my life. Now 4 years later TT came back 382 Ng/dl see above posted lab work. I am trying to gain valuable insight from all of the contributing members here. Thank you in advance

How long have you been on TRT consistently?

sine 11/7 of this year. Not long at all and I know this takes time however I never experience the “honeymoon” phase. Just gradually feeling worse and worse.

Yeah I never really got one of those either. I say keep at it through early Jan and see how you feel then. It takes time unfortunately.

After the 7 week mark, did things really start to pick up for you? What has been your experience with TRT so far. Would you say things are consistent for you now? Or do you ever feel like you are chasing an up and down game.

I have a long thread. It hasn’t been the “holy f I woke up today and the sun is out again, I’m banging 7x a day and telling my boss to go f himself” level that some make it out to be.

I have gone from barely being able to have sex 2x a week to almost every day without any issues. Occasionally 2x. I’ve gained probably 10lbs of muscle with no work on my part. I do feel better, less tired, etc but it’s not as extreme as some people make it out to be. There still ups and downs but overall I am better off on average that I was. My biggest problem is I keep changing my protocol for various reasons

How does this make you feel once you change protocol? Do you feel worse after changing initially. Also what is your reasoning for changing protocol. Just trying to gain insight.

No it’s not, but it’s going to take some tinkering around with your protocol to figure out what works best. I don’t experience any ups and downs on a daily protocol.

The guys that continue to have problems have other issues going on that is missed by the doctors, early on I had a vitamin C and potassium deficiency and my doctors weren’t checking those because doctors are not through enough.

What kind of issues did this cause for you? I must be severely vitamin deficient as I haven’t eaten a vegetable in over 20 years (Since I was a kid) my diet is terrible.

Curly hair, fatigue, forgetfulness, rotten inflamed gums, loose teeth, severe abdominal pain, hair follicle bleeding and convulsions. That’s only the vitamin C deficiency, there were other deficiency going on at the same time.

My doctors missed it not once but 12 times, the physical systems were clearly visible on my legs and in my mouth, this is why I do so much doctor hate speech, in my view a doctor that can’t get the simple things right is useless.

My doctor missed it and all I had to do was Google my symptoms, it’s common knowledge!

I’ll throw in my $.02…

I started about a week before you did and am so far on about the same starter level of 100mg / wk, though I am currently doing every other day (0.15ml of Cyp) using insulin syringes…“shallow IM” mostly. Did do a couple sub-q but don’t have any positive/negative things to note on that yet. The second week I shot .40 ml to get me through a ~ 5 day trip without having to take supplies with me. Went back to EOD when I got home.

Prior to starting my TT was below 230 and I have lower range SHBG (20). Unfortunately I didn’t pull E #s before I started.

I’m feeling some definite improvement in libido & wood but I’m not feeling like I’m 13 again. No noticeable changes in any other way either. May have been tempered by the fact that of the month I’ve been doing this, I had a harsh toothache for a few days and am at the tail end of 2 weeks with a cold.

I’m not noticing any anxiety, sleep changes, etc. No “honeymoon”. No crash. I’ve been a little more even tempered / less irritable but I can’t say whether that’s an effect of TRT or if I’m just trying to be a bit more chill. I wasn’t a hothead but little things were getting to me.

Might want to get this checked out and verify you don’t have sleep apnea. Your levels aren’t great, but if you have apnea also that could have a large affect on your daily energy. This is something that I really need to check out for myself.

agreed, something I’ve been needing to do. Will look into this soon and provide the results of the study here.

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