Low T. But, What's Happening? Is It Obvious?

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
22

Todays lab ranges are based on a snap shot of men now. If you loked at lab ranges 20 years ago, the top of range was much higher. Total was 1500ish, free t was mid 20’s or higher.

My father has 15 Free T and he is 70s.

Dont over think this. You are a man and your body needs hormones / T / Thyroid to stay healthy.

Start taking T without anything else. Give it 2-3 months. A good dose is 150 to 200 of cypionate once a week or split twice or three shots a week. Modify dose until symptoms get better. You need a doctor who understands this and doesnt follow stupid lab ranges to treat you. they should treat symotoms, not lab ranges.

Thyroid is probably ok, but keep an eye on it. Low thyroid = fatigue and a very tired feeling no matter how much sleep you get. Some get hairloss and bad metabolism and feeling cold symptoms.

Find a TRT doctor, not a endo / family doctor who has never learnead bout hormones. They think this shit causes heart attacks and strokes. Yet they will hand out xanax and SSRI’s like candy.

Right now all you need is a good doctor who specializes in TRT like my doctor.

Remember that T is what keeps you healthy mentally and physicall. strong bones, CV, brain, libido and etc.

Building muscle and being lean is a secondary factor to T. But should not be the reason people get on TRT.

FYI: Ive been on TRT for 3 years. My Free t is top of range (easily), much higher than these non educated doctors that prescribe hormones.

My health is at its peak. i feel great, zero issues with labs, i am doing great. No giving blood. no issues with estrogen, no man titties, no hairloss, no libido problems, nothing. I feel normal and healthy. Labs prove it.

You can always lower dose later. if you have genetic disease or disorders, it’s a different story. If you like to overthink or worry yourself about every symptom that could occur, you wont do well. Someone that over thinks and looks for every symotom, and thinks the worse, will be stuck on these boards trying every dose and therapy known to man kind. If you can just let the t do its job (good dose) for a few months, youll probably come out feeling even better every few months.

Keep in mind that Estrogen is the most important hormone your body needs. from CV protection to libido, bone health and so much more. Dont fuck with E and dont be scared of it. My levels are twice what most men here have and i am healthy and feel great + excellent / amazing libido… love it.

T doesnt kill men. Not saying take 30000 mg of cypionate and get yoru Free t at 40 and shit. just saying dont waste time starting with a tiny dose and mind f yourself for months and years trying to find a good dose .).

Good luck

23

Gents… in my country, Portugal, it is nearly impossible to find any doctor (GP, Endo, Andro, Uro), that would prescribe Testosterone to someone borderline low or, with symptoms.
BUT, if you are a woman and want to change your sex to man, or if you had your testicles removed, or whatever, then… they will. They need a sex-chance case or extreme cases of hypogonadism to do something. Still, the protocols are those like every 2 weeks… and i know… let´s stop here !

I don´t understand why doctors dont say : Yes, your thyroid is underperforming but it is still working. No! They try to address the issue or eventually prescribe the medication. Same for insulin. Why is not testosterone regarded the same way ?

Understanding the borderline cases and work around them is just something the endocrine society over here does not understand and even recently raised red flags for the “inadverted” or “recreational” use of Testosterone in men.

It´s a matter of time, but we need at least 20-30 more years to have anti-aging medicine for men clearly understood and accept by the medical order in Portugal.

I found a GP that has some involvement in preventive medicine and anti-aging, but he would only go for the Gel. I can´t afford that and refused it doe to concerns on passing it to my wife and kids. Insurance would cover 2 or 3 month supply and then, it´s over. I have a limite per year than I can spend on any medication.
I apprached the injection form and he wasn´t willing to do that becase it was not bio-identical. Oh… is there really a difference once it´s metabolized? Or is it because of the half-life that more closely mimics our natural production? Perhaps the second. Anyway, he wouldn´t do it.
I may try to approach him later again with some studies on 2x/week injections of low dose.

There are 2 or 3 anti-aging clinics as well. But prices are over the roof and again they all mention bio-identical Gel. And i don´t think they are at the level of experience we can find over here.

I could go the underground lab route and start on my own. Plenty of information available from everyone over here and other forums. But I can´t accept taking medication which is not controlled and legal. I need pharmacy grade.

24

My SHBG is usually 25 nmol/l.

Free T calculations seem to be very inconclusive. Even the ranges differs greatly from one to another while total T seems more in standard. It´s hard to conclude anything. But if my lab ranges say my free T is mid-range, then, True-T calculator says i´m 8ng/dl Free T. Hold on, wait! Weren´t my labs at 25pg/ml ? Because 8ng/dl is the same as 80pg/ml. And usually, the recommended value I red in this forum is at 20-25ng/dl. Well, that happens to be 10x my lab result. It´s hard to conclude anything this way. I´m lost.

25

No, the body is able to cleave off the cypionate ester quickly and easily. That leaves bioidentical testosterone. The cypionate ester is easy on the liver and easily metabolized and eliminated.

Great question with plenty of theories. To name a few, of course, TRT is not taught in schools, but by private, small, though growing, organizations. Low testosterone symptoms are treated with commercial, brand name pharmaceutical product$. As an anabolic steroid, testosterone is placed in the same category as synthetic anabolic steroids, which have negative side effects. Then there is the increasingly anti male culture of the past few decades, the toxic masculinity, men bad therefore testosterone bad element of society which also seems to be growing. Perhaps the rapidly enlarging TRT market will change some of that? Maybe the women will?

26

Highpull : But women alredy do hormone therapy due to menopause. I can find plenty of doctors who work around it.

But… testosterone seems to be from a different league. Perhaps because men don´t have Andropause. We have an “Andro-reduction” which leaves everything in a gray area intead of black/white area. And that demands good judgment, somehow an out-of-the box approach by doctors which should be just common approach if properly taught in medical school.

27

You’re right, but that was not my point. Point was that maybe women will get tired of wimpy, weak men, and then the culture will change. I see plenty of wives driving (maybe literally) their tired, fat, out of shape, disinterested husbands to the office for testosterone treatments.

28

Eventough i don´t look fat or lacking exercise (despite not feeling at good shape at all as I used to) my wife always says I could be more “man” than I am, with more natural authority and leadership under certain situations. I am like 8 or 88, perhaps due to lack of confidence.
She always says… her father was more that kind. And so was mine. Makes me wonder.

29

Stigma, fear of steroids. In medical school, uros are taught TRT is contraindicated for men with prostate cancer, because it will fuel cancer growth. Now add all the bullshit studies showing high testosterone causes heart attacks and strokes, and now one understands why TRT, a natural hormone is so hard to get.

The real truth is, TRT prevents and treats multiple diseases with profound results drugs can’t mimic.

30

Then why give them to a woman who is trans to man ? I bet her (his) new testosterone levels will be better than mine… and I am a MAN !!
Moreover, she (he) will live with levels which are way bigger than the ones her body was made to have, when compared to a man which already has a higher-level baseline. The deviation is way bigger in those cases and I see no doctor worried.

Women can take birth control pills too. No issues…prescribed as early as in their teens days. No worries.

I understand there is a mis-use with testosterone in society. Because not everyone has the same goals. But I believe that happens with a bigger number of drugs that many doctors prescribe without any hassle at all.
I was offered a SSRI in an appointment i had last month with a young doctor we can talk to at my job (i don´t remember the drug name honestly, but wasn´t one of the strongest). I mean, he was comfortable with prescribing it when I feel low as an “s.o.s.”, but said I should try to delay as much as possible this “TRT” thing.
I refused it kindly saying i don´t need a new problem on top of an existing one.

31

I´ve been having a bit of neck soreness after wake up almost every morning and consequently it develops into a headache which comes after lunch or mid-afternoon. Not everyday, but more than usual (2-3 times a week).

And also I feel a bit of soreness in knees and elbows.

I know low E2 may bring some of these symptoms up, but is 15pg/ml E2 that low to create this ? Please note it´s not blood pressure related as i´ve tested it already and it is normal.

32

Absolutely, that’s why women get migraines right before their period, when estrogen levels are low.

33

Its not the first time i have this kind of progressive migraine, but it is getting more frequent than usual.
And the weight in my eyes…arghh

How can i get my E2 higher naturally? It used to be high 20s to low 30s. Why this drop to half of what i previously had ? Never seen this since testing hormones in 4 years. No drastic changes in lifestyle or nutrition at all.

34

This needs to go ^^.

35

Yes, of course. But T still remains the same as usual. Just E2 went down without apparent explanation.

Damn, even my wife says i am grumpy lately. Finally, i am having my period. Sorry, couldnt resist. :roll_eyes::triumph::sweat_smile:

36

This is a sign your testosterone is circling the drain and it can only get worse from here on out.

37

Some of your estrogen is made in the testicles, some in aromatase. I doubt you’ve lost weight with these T levels, so it’s logical to conclude your intratesticular estrogen is declining.

38

It ia probably the aromataae process that changed. I need to retest and find a doc.

39

This is typical of men with low-T.

Stop torturing yourself, you’re a good candidate for TRT.

40

I know…i know. But i still havent found a doctor to work with, via injections. Gel is not an option for now.:roll_eyes: I dont wanna go UGL…

41

Saw today the first doctor that discovered my low T. He said that I am a possible candidate for TRT looking at total T, but, currently because my free T is at 23pg/ml (which is almost half of the range for this lab in Portugal), I am not a candidate at the moment. For some laboratories… this is very very very low, but for my lab, they say it is in the average of population.
I questioned the lab testing for free T and he assured that the lab I used was very credited and trusted considering the testing material they have at their disposal with all european certificates. One of the best in the country if not the best.

Regarding TRT methods he mantained his only option for using the Bio Gel as he doesn´t feel comfortable using other methods, such as injections which, in his opinion could create great high and lows. I explained how the most recent protocols work and what are the common injection protocols used in other countries and he recognized it could eventually work, but still, he doesn´t want a patient doing injections and running risks of infection on site. He gave me the example of a Portuguese actor which suffered major leg infection a few years ago and fought for his life and eventual leg amputation at the hospital due to a bad infection related to testosterone.
Unfortunately, this case has left a very bad reputation for T in the Portuguese society along with plenty of false information supporting fear and ignorance of many. I explained to him that it was UGL T and lack of proper injection preparation. He partially agreed, but kindly refused. I didn´t insist.

Anyway, chances are I won´t be receiving any treatment with him. However, he´s very keen on monitoring me with complete hormonal panels which he allowed me to repeat soon and also suggested a sleep study to see if the my sleep is causing my lack of energy.

I recognize some valid points and that he´s a doctor with good judgement. At least didn´t put me on 250mg every 2 week protocols which i´d refuse anyway.
But unfortunately, if my levels go down, i´m limited to gel. So… i´m stuck.

I am amazed at how is it possible that I have normal/good free T and borderline low T ? Is this anti-nature ??
Am I simply able to make a very good use of my total T ? Am I really hypogonadal ?

Usually we see the opposite. Good to high T and low free T.