Looking for Advice - False Rape Accusation

Off Topic
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First week of journalism school, you learn that you are not to level allegations against a person/organization without trying to contact him/her/them. In 99 percent of cases, the target of the allegations is either going to decline to comment, or simply not respond at all. Both are fine: “Mr. Smith declined to comment;” “Mr. Smith has not returned our calls” (Investigations take months to report and write, so if somebody hasn’t gotten back to you, they’ve essentially declined to comment. If it’s quick, you say “we’ll update if we hear back.”)

This is well known by the staff at Rolling Stone. It isn’t conceivable that they would run a story alleging, say, Google to have fired a bunch of black employees based on their race, without first seeking Google’s comment.

This tells me one thing: They at RS have bought the “don’t question survivors” line so thoroughly that they have set it above the best-practice principles of their profession. This seems kind of obvious and banal, but it’s actually a momentous observation: that a news outlet – and we’re not talking about a biweekly local paper here – has (unconsciously, I don’t doubt) absorbed what is really a radical and highly partisan line of reasoning and baked it into the structure of their operation. “Structure” is an important word here. Nobody needs to be reminded that news outlets have ideological bents, most of those bents are expressed by way of editorial content. The NYT and the WSJ, for example, are in editorial ideological opposition, but the structural rules by which they build their stories are the same.

As for how a journalist could report this thing correctly, I think there’s only one way: You tell your subject that, as difficult as it might be for her, if she wants the story to run, you’re going to check it as if it were anything else. You’re going to try to verify her claims and contact her alleged assailants and you’re going to talk to her friends. If she objects, then you tell her that you wish her luck and you send her on her way. Yes, victims’ feelings matter, but the whole point of a set of structural principles is that they take priority over our emotions and biases and fragilities.

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Basically, one of the most common-sense and basic ethical standards of journalism has, at Rolling Stone, been overridden by a particular Left-feminist meme which vaguely and indirectly and usually snarkily claims all rape allegations to be ipso facto true. (A meme which, by the way, does great disservice to rape victims.) I would resign tonight if I were these people.

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[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Basically, one of the most common-sense and basic ethical standards of journalism has, at Rolling Stone, been overridden by a particular Left-feminist meme which vaguely and indirectly and usually snarkily claims all rape allegations to be ipso facto true. (A meme which, by the way, does great disservice to rape victims.) I would resign tonight if I were these people.[/quote]

I think the larger point here relates to Catherine MacKinnon’s summation of Feminism as being predicated on the sexual (ab)use of women. The shrillness of the dialog is because mainstream Feminism cannot withstand either the implication that women are not always helpless victims nor that men are anything other than serial rapists. (Google PIV if you want an eye opener for this mode of thought: PIV is always rape, ok? | radical wind) This now has less to do with justice for any wrongs and much more to do with piety and being part of the true faith. And I’ll bet that this gets swept aside as quickly in the popular press as the Duke Lacrosse case. Anyone remember Fatty Arbuckle? I didn’t think so.

– jj

304

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

To Our Readers:

Last month, Rolling Stone published a story titled “A Rape on Campus” by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, which described a brutal gang rape of a woman named Jackie at a University of Virginia fraternity house; the university’s failure to respond to this alleged assault ? and the school’s troubling history of indifference to many other instances of alleged sexual assaults. The story generated worldwide headlines and much soul-searching at UVA. University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations.

Because of the sensitive nature of Jackie’s story, we decided to honor her request not to contact the man she claimed orchestrated the attack on her nor any of the men she claimed participated in the attack for fear of retaliation against her. In the months Erdely spent reporting the story, Jackie neither said nor did anything that made Erdely, or Rolling Stone’s editors and fact-checkers, question Jackie’s credibility. Her friends and rape activists on campus strongly supported Jackie’s account. She had spoken of the assault in campus forums. We reached out to both the local branch and the national leadership of the fraternity where Jackie said she was attacked. They responded that they couldn’t confirm or deny her story but had concerns about the evidence.

In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie’s account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced. We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story.

Will Dana
Managing Editor

So, based upon what may very well be a completely made up story, UVA has:

  1. The board unanimously adopted a resolution affirming a zero-tolerance approach toward rape and sexual assault cases, which most likely means a kangaroo court with a lowered standard of evidence, and
  2. UVA suspended all fraternities until after the winter break in the wake of the report, a decision that I assume affects thousands of men on a campus of 21,000 students.

If Jackie did make this story up, she should be punished by the school for violating the Honor Code and prosecuted by any authorities she lied to.[/quote]

who would have guessed…

contrary to usmcc’s beliefs, the lying female will not be treated as an adult, and held liable for her actions in this case.

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[quote]jj-dude wrote:
I think the larger point here relates to Catherine MacKinnon’s summation of Feminism as being predicated on the sexual (ab)use of women. The shrillness of the dialog is because mainstream Feminism cannot withstand either the implication that women are not always helpless victims nor that men are anything other than serial rapists. (Google PIV if you want an eye opener for this mode of thought: PIV is always rape, ok? | radical wind) This now has less to do with justice for any wrongs and much more to do with piety and being part of the true faith. And I’ll bet that this gets swept aside as quickly in the popular press as the Duke Lacrosse case. Anyone remember Fatty Arbuckle? I didn’t think so.

– jj[/quote]

Your link is to a radical feminist blog - actually, a radical radical feminist blog. It does not characterize feminism, just as far right ideologues (take your pick) do not characterize conservatism in general.

For mainstream feminism, rape is a symptom and not the underlying disease. The left has generally adopted the doctrine of structural inequality. It is a resilient claim that works equally well for gender and race while being hard to falsify. But a claim of structural inequality does not work if it demands justice for a single wrong that can, even in remote possibility, be redressed. Rather, the issue has to be complex and interwoven so that the goalposts can be moved, so that discrimination is always salient. The right would love for the left to hang its hat on a single issue - look at how many conservatives believe that the Civil Rights Act means that racism is “over” as an issue. If feminism really were about penetrative sex being an inherent violation, then that view would show that all other feminist demands and complaints are derivable from that position alone; having found the comprehensive ideology, we could either accept or reject it, as a society, rather than hashing different issues out over and over again as if they had independent reality.

If there is a comprehensive worldview that is the wellspring of pop feminism while still being more specific than parroting “structural inequality,” I would say that it is simply the overwhelming feeling of being put upon or demanded from. So that, from the feminist perspective, men asking a woman to smile is a demand of her physical and emotional presence; rape is a demand of her body; denial of birth control is demanding her to submit her body to another’s authority; domestic abuse is forcing her to submit to a man’s violence.

307

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I have no understanding of the thought processes by which a woman decides that it’s okay to report sex that was neither forced nor coerced as rape. However, I agree that many encounters occur as you’ve laid out. I would call these “regrettable” rather than rape.

Women/girls who need to save face in this way (and I know they’re out there) are not merely vengeful. Something is wrong with them. [/quote]

It would be easier to classify such women as either vindictive or psychologically damaged. False allegations that are entirely fabricated are rare, and they usually do fall into those categories. The “grey” areas, however, are driven by a disconnect between the legal standards of rape and coercion and the feminist definitions.

Under the law, coercion generally requires the credible threat of force against the victim or someone else. “I’ll kill you/your child/your dog if you don’t have sex with me” is a threat most people would agree should be illegal. For feminists, coercion can include emotional threats, like “I’ll leave you if you don’t have sex with me,” or begging and badgering until she agrees to have sex.

It is understandable that someone might not feel very good about things if they had sex after that kind of interaction, but that is not (anywhere I know of) punishable under the law, even while feminists call it coercion. Feminists have a different, lower standard for when a woman is too intoxicated to consent.

At root, they have a different standard of consent from what most of us, I think, expect from adults with agency. Most people expect that a person who doesn’t want to do something will say so and make some kind of effort to extricate him or herself from the situation. Of course, our reactions in the moment are often different from the course of action we would rationally agree is best.

Still, I find it hard to swallow that a woman could lie next to a man she had previously had sex with, feel him pull down her panties, make no effort to get out of the bed, “let him finish,” and then call it rape. While that situation may or may not be rape under the law (she said “no” in some form at some point), it is certainly rape under most feminist interpretations.

So it is easy to understand how one might be confused when the same terms are used with different levels of precision.

308

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

To Our Readers:

Last month, Rolling Stone published a story titled “A Rape on Campus” by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, which described a brutal gang rape of a woman named Jackie at a University of Virginia fraternity house; the university’s failure to respond to this alleged assault ? and the school’s troubling history of indifference to many other instances of alleged sexual assaults. The story generated worldwide headlines and much soul-searching at UVA. University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations.

Because of the sensitive nature of Jackie’s story, we decided to honor her request not to contact the man she claimed orchestrated the attack on her nor any of the men she claimed participated in the attack for fear of retaliation against her. In the months Erdely spent reporting the story, Jackie neither said nor did anything that made Erdely, or Rolling Stone’s editors and fact-checkers, question Jackie’s credibility. Her friends and rape activists on campus strongly supported Jackie’s account. She had spoken of the assault in campus forums. We reached out to both the local branch and the national leadership of the fraternity where Jackie said she was attacked. They responded that they couldn’t confirm or deny her story but had concerns about the evidence.

In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie’s account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced. We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story.

Will Dana
Managing Editor

So, based upon what may very well be a completely made up story, UVA has:

  1. The board unanimously adopted a resolution affirming a zero-tolerance approach toward rape and sexual assault cases, which most likely means a kangaroo court with a lowered standard of evidence, and
  2. UVA suspended all fraternities until after the winter break in the wake of the report, a decision that I assume affects thousands of men on a campus of 21,000 students.

If Jackie did make this story up, she should be punished by the school for violating the Honor Code and prosecuted by any authorities she lied to.[/quote]

who would have guessed…

contrary to usmcc’s beliefs, the lying female will not be treated as an adult, and held liable for her actions in this case. [/quote]

Right because there aren’t multiple examples posted in this thread of women being held accountable for their actions.

What beliefs are you even referring to?

309

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right because there aren’t multiple examples posted in this thread of women being held accountable for their actions.

What beliefs are you even referring to? [/quote]

that women are held accountable for their actions.

maybe you’re right, but the “justice” system definitely does not hold them to the same standard as it does men… shit… even the same standard as it holds underage boys.

310

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Smh, I told you a few years ago you were too smart to remain a liberal (remember?).

I see you are proving me right.

I like being right.

Being wrong is not as much fun.[/quote]

I have actually never forgotten that. And as I’ve moved right – not far right, as you know, but definitely rightward (particularly on certain issues) – I’ve remembered that line of yours often.

311

In case anybody wants to get mad:

https://twitter.com/jessicavalenti

https://twitter.com/rgay

https://twitter.com/thelindywest

Note Ms. Gay’s near-instant deterioration into a puddle of emotion and weepy disappointment and histrionic exaggeration…at the suggestion of discrepancies in a story about gang rape.

Who knew how friable feminists were? All you’ve got to do is give them reason to doubt a story of horrific violence against women.

312

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
In case anybody wants to get mad:

https://twitter.com/jessicavalenti

https://twitter.com/rgay

https://twitter.com/thelindywest

Note Ms. Gay’s near-instant deterioration into a puddle of emotion and weepy disappointment and histrionic exaggeration…at the suggestion of discrepancies in a story about gang rape.

Who knew how friable feminists were? All you’ve got to do is give them reason to doubt a story of horrific violence against women.[/quote]

I don’t think this is really news to anyone… try correcting a feminist on the “1 in 5 women” bs they love quoting…

I recommend ducking for cover

313

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
In case anybody wants to get mad:

https://twitter.com/jessicavalenti

https://twitter.com/rgay

https://twitter.com/thelindywest

Note Ms. Gay’s near-instant deterioration into a puddle of emotion and weepy disappointment and histrionic exaggeration…at the suggestion of discrepancies in a story about gang rape.

Who knew how friable feminists were? All you’ve got to do is give them reason to doubt a story of horrific violence against women.[/quote]

I know I’m old because I can’t read Twitter accounts. Trying to figure out what’s going on is like trying to understand a book by only reading the even numbered pages.

314

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
In case anybody wants to get mad:

https://twitter.com/jessicavalenti

https://twitter.com/rgay

https://twitter.com/thelindywest

Note Ms. Gay’s near-instant deterioration into a puddle of emotion and weepy disappointment and histrionic exaggeration…at the suggestion of discrepancies in a story about gang rape.

Who knew how friable feminists were? All you’ve got to do is give them reason to doubt a story of horrific violence against women.[/quote]

I know I’m old because I can’t read Twitter accounts. Trying to figure out what’s going on is like trying to understand a book by only reading the even numbered pages.
[/quote]

Oh I pretty much feel the same way. I have to shoulder through it sometimes in order to read something or other, but it’s a garbled mess to my eyes. I hate twitter and don’t have an account (and never will, no matter how often I’m told I really, really should).

Mostly, it’s good only for getting you pissed off.

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[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Mostly, it’s good only for getting you pissed off.[/quote]

I thought that was what tumblr was for.

316

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right because there aren’t multiple examples posted in this thread of women being held accountable for their actions.

What beliefs are you even referring to? [/quote]

that women are held accountable for their actions.

maybe you’re right, but the “justice” system definitely does not hold them to the same standard as it does men… shit… even the same standard as it holds underage boys. [/quote]

And the Justice System doesn’t hold the wealthy or the famous to the same standard as the poor or regular Joe. Point being, that’s an indictment of the system not women in general or in these rather rare cases.

317

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right because there aren’t multiple examples posted in this thread of women being held accountable for their actions.

What beliefs are you even referring to? [/quote]

that women are held accountable for their actions.

maybe you’re right, but the “justice” system definitely does not hold them to the same standard as it does men… shit… even the same standard as it holds underage boys. [/quote]

And the Justice System doesn’t hold the wealthy or the famous to the same standard as the poor or regular Joe. Point being, that’s an indictment of the system not women in general or in these rather rare cases. [/quote]

Thats true, if I got 40% less jailtime for any given crime, well, I would take it.

318

Seems like a good place for this:

http://news.yahoo.com/military-seeks-help-male-sex-assault-victims-180253958--politics.html

319

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
Whens the last time there was a fatal commercial airline crash in the US?[/quote]

July 6 2013
[/quote]

Dec 8th, 2014.

I suppose that’s private not commercial.

320

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right because there aren’t multiple examples posted in this thread of women being held accountable for their actions.

What beliefs are you even referring to? [/quote]

that women are held accountable for their actions.

maybe you’re right, but the “justice” system definitely does not hold them to the same standard as it does men… shit… even the same standard as it holds underage boys. [/quote]

And the Justice System doesn’t hold the wealthy or the famous to the same standard as the poor or regular Joe. Point being, that’s an indictment of the system not women in general or in these rather rare cases. [/quote]

right, that’s what im saying.

women receive special treatment in the justice system, the divorce system, and the family court system.

doesn’t stop them from complaining all the time tho lol