I’m 46 and have been lifting for almost 15 years, luckily with only one significant injury incurred from lifting (sports hernia) but a fair number of non-lifting injuries and and other conditions to work around, including an unexplained radiating pain shooting up and down the backside of my right arm that rendered me unable to bench press even 135 when I could hit 275 for 5 prior to it.
X-rays, MRI’s, blood work, and multiple orthopedic doctor visits never pinpointed what it was, but it was quite uncomfortable and severely weakened me. Even driving more than 5 minutes or so became quite difficult due to the distraction of the pain. It went away after maybe two months or so and bench strength came back within roughly one year. It seemed like it was nerve pain, but I’m not a doctor and the doctors couldn’t explain it with any certainty, so who knows?
My basic rule for the last six or seven years is to shut it down if something doesn’t feel right, especially with any compound barbell lifts or even things like my double 70lb kettlebells. When I can do a movement without anything feeling off, only then will I put my foot on the gas and work up in weight. Aside from a couple of heavy triples over the last few years, I haven’t done any sets that I can’t get a minimum of five clean and controlled reps where I “own the weight”.
“Owning the weight” has been a big concept for me, and pause squats and pause benches are a good way to know that you “own” a particular weight. There are a lot of ways to test strength without loading up a 1 rep max on a barbell, which I was sort of addicted to in my mid-30’s.
I don’t recall what your PR was when the 600lb deadlift thread was active, but 555 is a mighty fine showing and tells me that you definitely had the potential for 600 if your structure would have cooperated more.
Same here. It doesn’t matter how strong I feel I am at any given time, some days getting out of bed is exactly as you describe. I also end up in embarassing moments where my upper body is slouched/vertical on the sofa and I need to engage in long-winded pendlum swing or an awkward collapse to the floor to get back up.
I believe for me it’s a ribcage/pelvis relationship issue. Avoiding certain exercises that aid that relationship (like chin-ups or targetted ab work) and working on a computer all day as well as not having a great sleep setup for a long-time I think is what crippled me. They’ve been so out of touch I literally can’t do a single pushup because I can’t get into the position to.
I’ve started doing little 10-20 second wall planks which seem to “reset” that connection, hold a better posture, and then getting out of bed is a breeze. It doesn’t last long but I think I’m on the right track with it.
Does auto-regulation on everything (rep ranges/volume etc) fully come into that? Or are you just mostly doing the same that most do but with exercises you “want” to do?
I used to do the whole Squat/Deadlift, Deadlift/Squat rotation on two lower days thing. All brutal sets, and even the accessories would be brutal because that drive was there. I never really enjoyed it, and cared way too much. Now I do much less and genuinely look forward to every single gym day. Often when the cliche gym aquaintance “Whatcha training today?” question comes up , as soon as I pop the question back it’s met with a long sigh, a list of exercises they hate, a reason why they still feel tired from their last workout and then a what looks like a painful, regimented slog through their session. I don’t miss that. At all.
Its mostly about ignoring the noise from “experts” about what one must do to be strong, or else… (fill in the blank).
Like you must Deadlift! Or squat, or so many other things that can be substituted, either to avoid further injury, their recovery cost is too great, or just because they suck your soul dry.
There are a lot of good ways to get or stay big and strong. I dont have to be Chuck Vogelpohl strong or Usain Bolt fast. I can do leg press or hip sled and be just fine. Not every rep is going to be “optimal”. I actually really like “junk” reps, drop sets- going to failure, and just about everything else some expert at one time or another has said is horrible and you should Never do.
The only thing I consider a personal don’t do is greater than 5 reps on any of the big compounds like squat, deadlift, clean & jerk, because I go for fast/explosive and tear muscles like i don’t know what. That has always been a problem for me that I didn’t even address in my first post because it has been just a ridiculous amount over the years.
Dude this speaks really loud. Used to be that if this relationship went sideways for me I’d hurt my low back. Got that sucker under control, so now when my posture is off, my ribs shift out of place and it gives me horrendous heart palpitations. Chiropractor averages having to reset 6 of my ribs every month when I see him. Hurts bad enough I see white when he adjusts them, but 5 seconds later I feel awesome and heart rate drops 15 BPM
Gotcha. Maybe only slightly related, but when I was younger in the gym I used to look at older guys train and constantly think to myself things like “he should be doing this, he should be doing that, what an idiot”. And I hear kids talking to eachother the same way now. It was very easy to be dogmatic and think I knew it all when my body hadn’t recieved years of wear and tear.
However, I am still a believer in people having to earn the “deadlifts and squats are too fatiguing” line, rather than barely ever lifting their own bodyweight and slagging them off for being a waste of time because of some “optimal” noise that isn’t relevant to them.
I think this is really smart and really mature. And they’re more athletic lifts anyway. You’re still hitting a squat and a hinge, so it would take a silly person to believe you’d really changed anything.
Even when I was playing (low level) and relatively weaker, deadlifting took way more than it gave me on the field/ court/ mat. I’d much rather see someone get after GHRs and broad jumps with limited exposure to RDLs or cleans.
I should have noted above, too, back pain is bad enough itself, but it’s also a warning things might be about to get worse: what did me in was the nerve damage that left my foot a little paralyzed.
I had to go back and check because that thread is what pushed me to even try it. It seems that I had only just begun to do deadlifts and was six weeks into it when I maxed. I hit 450 and it made me nervous.
That definitely sounds like nerve pain. That’s the only thing I’ve experienced that can shut down an otherwise healthy muscle. Glad it worked itself out! I spent time with a spinal specialist and had nerve testing back when I bulged my L3/L4 disc. Luckily they determined my disc swelled and pinched a nerve which resulted in numbness and lack of function in parts of my right leg. They said (and were correct) that the swelling would go away and all the symptoms would follow suit. It was definitely a slow and frustrating process. I started back on the leg extension and couldn’t move the lowest weight with my right leg. I did double leg extensions and single leg eccentrics with 15 lbs and built myself back up from there. Nerve problems suck.
When I think about it, I’ve never really seen an older guy in the gym squat or deadlift. I’ve seen plenty of strong bench presses and upper body work, but rarely do I see leg training and definitely not barbell leg training. I don’t go to the gym every day so I just tell myself that I’m not there when they train legs rather than assuming they don’t.
I think goals must change as you age. In my 20s it was all about being as big and strong as possible and I just happened to play basketball all the time. Now I want to be fit and capable and able to play basketball. I still want some muscle mass, but I’m not foolish. I’m down to 225ish now and need to maintain this throughout my 40s and probably drop as I go into the next decade. The reality is that you just don’t see any 6’5" 240 lb guys in their 80s. And I want to live as long as possible. I’m 41 with a 4 year old! I have to see her grow up and marry and do all the things.
Whatever that pain was, I’m glad it’s gone and hasn’t come back. I spent my whole $3,000 insurance deductible only to be told “gee, I dunno what it is”. IIRC, they didn’t think it was nerve pain because it wasn’t “lit up” on the MRI.
Getting stapled under 135 was such a bad feeling, too.
I spent most of the time laying down with my arm fully extended overhead, which was the only way I could get any partial relief.
In my gym there’s a few guys in their late 60s that squat and deadlift. This one guy is 67, ex-Rugby player, weighs around 75-80kg. He comes in a few times a week to squat a couple sets of 90-100kg for 5-6 reps, then does single leg extensions explosively with little care for the eccentric. His goal is to be able to continue to ski a few times a year and be able to run around/play with his grandchildren.
There’s another guy of a similar age who’s leg may as well be a metal rod it moves so stiff with his limp, he still deadlifts and does a hella lot volume with it too. ~130kg for 5x5. Super impressive to me, but I do wonder how much longer he’s going to be able to keep that up for.
I don’t think I’ll ever fully intentionally leave all the big lifts behind, but I will leave behind the goal of trying to progress them in any other way but technique. At some point we all have to shut the ego off and wonder if there’s a point in trying to go heavier. It may sound defeatist and I’m nowhere near that mentality, but I know that in the big fight of Feel good + feel functional vs Feel shit but look good, there will only be one winner. Hopefully there’s a nice healthy balance between the two of them.
Everyone should answer the question of “Why?” If you have a valid reason, then keep trucking with the barbell stuff. If your goals can be met with less demanding and less painful alternatives, then that’s probably the way to go. I’m hoping my branch of the Y gets a belt squat someday. I think that could be a great alternative to loading the spine. Unfortunately, all the versions I’ve tried to build or create have resulted in something that isn’t really heavy enough to challenge my legs, but the dip belt I used dug into my hips something fierce. I’m hopeful the official setup works better, but I’ve never seen one in person.
Belt squats are fantastic and the purpose built machines work great, but I wouldn’t consider it an alternative to spine loading. It’s more of an absence of spine loading. It’s still going to work your core some, but there’s no real substitute to loading up your spine.
There’s also no substitute for a belt squat machine when loading up your spine is a bad idea. If I ever need one, the powerlifting gym in town has one, along with a lot of other neat equipment.
There are a few 50+ guys that still lift heavy there, along with a few guys who really messed themselves up with powerlifting.
I liked lifting there before I got into grappling and then got a home setup during COVID, but I have no interest in powerlifting as a sport. I was criticized for squatting too deep and running 5/3/1 by guys who were stronger than me at their peaks, but I’m still moving just fine at 46. I can still do any lift without pain and I haven’t had any chances to brag about making a comeback after spinal fusion surgery due to powerlifting injuries.
I’m not sure if they assumed I wanted to compete in powerlifting, but I’m totally fine with not being as hardcore as they are.
Different situations, and it depends what the goal of squat actually was for you… But when I 100% tore my adductor longus, squatting was a no go for a long while. I ended up doing heel-elevated trap bar deadlifts to replace them so I’d keep a stimulus on my spine even if it wasn’t top-loaded. They were pretty good for me, but hard work.
When much of the content people absorb is from top powerlifters and professional bodybuilders talking with an implication that the listener wants to achieve what they’ve achieved, anything outside of that is just seen as wrong. It doesn’t matter that such a small amount ever have a serious want to compete in either sport, they’ll train like one of them, or even a mix of the two - often at a detriment to other areas of their life. There is nothing wrong if someones “Why” adds up to training like that, and I have nothing but respect for that drive. There is an element in my head now though of “okay, cool but why do “I” need to hit that number” - what benefit is it really adding to my daily life.
That is not to say I’m not always trying to add weight/grow muscle/get stronger… but it does mean I feel I can get more out of a set of tricep pushdowns with 15-20kg than a “strong” guy can with double or triple that weight.
I battle myself with this. I know I don’t need to deadlift 500 lbs to be physically fit and able. But it’s cool, right? Ego is the enemy of my aging body.
Over the past couple years I’ve shifted into a different mindset. A small part of me still wants to achieve a couple things but I’m not really pushing it. I’m mostly training to keep from falling apart. I like to be/look athletic and muscular so I’m shifting to the things that will achieve that. Luckily that doesn’t have to include things that hurt me. I’ve built a decent enough body that I can train more for maintenance and still reach my goals.
Training can be broken into three parts - can do, should do, and must do. It’s funny how things like mobility work and light conditioning are starting to trump the cool stuff like heavy barbell lifts.
Everythings fine, and then one day you wake up and feel like you’re playing catch-up on everything you’ve been so keen to ignore before. “What the hell is a primer exercise and why do I need 5 of them to feel like I can get my body into the right position to bench press?”
