[quote]pushharder wrote:
I feel embarrassed for them but…you gotta look at the hand that was dealt them. It was a rather poor one. Their positions are simply untenable.[/quote]
I would be ashamed, no doubt. And that’s why I lamented the absence of Groo on this topic. At least you could have an honest debate.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So, lets reiterate: the right a fetus has to live supercedes the right a grown woman has to govern her own body.
Ensuring that a child is born is our collective responsibility, ensuring that that child is fed and otherwise cared for is not.
No medical procedure could ever remove a fetus from a woman without killing it.
Anything that results in the death of a human being is murder, except for things conservatives say isn’t murder.
Am I wisening up yet, Sloth? [/quote]
‘Wisening up?’ Sadly not. Going on ignore for continuing the stupidity, absurdity, and dishonesty of your “it aint killing, cause like, it aint our fault they’ll die after being deliberately removed from the womb.” I won’t waste my time with a person who blatantly reaches into the darkest, deepest, corner of absurdity in order to, dishonestly, avoid what we objectively know. Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated, taking of an innocent human life. Millions and millions of lives lost testify to the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself. You make your despicable, ludicrous, and flat out dishonest ‘statement’ upon the lives of millions lost. You will not do it in my sight, ever again.
The next person who responds to me, as a pro-choicer, had better come at it honestly. Otherwise don’t even bother with me. From now on, you will acknowledge the act for what it is, and defend it for what it is. I will not entertain intellectual cowardice and dishonesty. Every individual, pro-choicer or not, knows that abortion kills, deliberately, an innocent human life. Suggest anything else, and I will simply slap you on ignore. And no, I don’t care that you don’t care. Save your breath. But, if you want to talk about some other issue, on some other thread, about some other topic, with me…don’t come in here playing stupid about an objective, indisputable fact. Because I aint buying it anymore. You’re lying.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So, lets reiterate: the right a fetus has to live supercedes the right a grown woman has to govern her own body.
Ensuring that a child is born is our collective responsibility, ensuring that that child is fed and otherwise cared for is not.
No medical procedure could ever remove a fetus from a woman without killing it.
Anything that results in the death of a human being is murder, except for things conservatives say isn’t murder.
Am I wisening up yet, Sloth? [/quote]
‘Wisening up?’ Sadly not. Going on ignore for continuing the stupidity, absurdity, and dishonesty of your “it aint killing, cause like, it aint our fault they’ll die after being deliberately removed from the womb.” I won’t waste my time with a person who blatantly reaches into the darkest, deepest, corner of absurdity in order to, dishonestly, avoid what we objectively know. Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated, taking of an innocent human life. Millions and millions of lives lost testify to the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself. You make your despicable, ludicrous, and flat out dishonest ‘statement’ upon the lives of millions lost. You will not do it in my sight, ever again.
The next person who responds to me, as a pro-choicer, had better come at it honestly. Otherwise don’t even bother with me. From now on, you will acknowledge the act for what it is, and defend it for what it is. I will not entertain intellectual cowardice and dishonesty. Every individual, pro-choicer or not, knows that abortion kills, deliberately, an innocent human life. Suggest anything else, and I will simply slap you on ignore. And no, I don’t care that you don’t care. Save your breath. But, if you want to talk about some other issue, on some other thread, about some other topic, with me…don’t come in here playing stupid about an objective, indisputable fact. Because I aint buying it anymore. You’re lying.
[/quote]
I’m lying… or I see it differently than you do.
But, no no, you go ahead and pound your fist more and scream I’M RIGHT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WHAT IT IS AND I’M BEING OBJECTIVE!!!
The point of abortion isn’t to kill “innocent human lives”. Women who have abortions dont go around killing newborns, or attacking pregnant women in order to off fetuses. To suggest that the point of abortion is to kill people is fucking ridiculous.
Do sinister women go out and say “Hey mister, fuck me without a condom and blow your load up my twat, I wanna get pregnant so I can KILL A CHILD MUHAHAHAHAHAHA” in your twisted little world, Sloth?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Abortion is the direct, deliberate, killing of an innocent human life.
[/quote]
False. Abortion is the removal of a fetus from a woman.
Want to solve the problem? Invent a way to remove the fetus without it dying.
BAM. Problem solved. Why aren’t you funding this??
[/quote]
[/quote]
Unless you want to explain, biologically, why it would be impossible, just shut the fuck up and go play with your horses, kguy?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So, lets reiterate: the right a fetus has to live supercedes the right a grown woman has to govern her own body.
Ensuring that a child is born is our collective responsibility, ensuring that that child is fed and otherwise cared for is not.
No medical procedure could ever remove a fetus from a woman without killing it.
Anything that results in the death of a human being is murder, except for things conservatives say isn’t murder.
Am I wisening up yet, Sloth? [/quote]
‘Wisening up?’ Sadly not. Going on ignore for continuing the stupidity, absurdity, and dishonesty of your “it aint killing, cause like, it aint our fault they’ll die after being deliberately removed from the womb.” I won’t waste my time with a person who blatantly reaches into the darkest, deepest, corner of absurdity in order to, dishonestly, avoid what we objectively know. Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated, taking of an innocent human life. Millions and millions of lives lost testify to the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself. You make your despicable, ludicrous, and flat out dishonest ‘statement’ upon the lives of millions lost. You will not do it in my sight, ever again.
The next person who responds to me, as a pro-choicer, had better come at it honestly. Otherwise don’t even bother with me. From now on, you will acknowledge the act for what it is, and defend it for what it is. I will not entertain intellectual cowardice and dishonesty. Every individual, pro-choicer or not, knows that abortion kills, deliberately, an innocent human life. Suggest anything else, and I will simply slap you on ignore. And no, I don’t care that you don’t care. Save your breath. But, if you want to talk about some other issue, on some other thread, about some other topic, with me…don’t come in here playing stupid about an objective, indisputable fact. Because I aint buying it anymore. You’re lying.
[/quote]
I’m lying… or I see it differently than you do.
But, no no, you go ahead and pound your fist more and scream I’M RIGHT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WHAT IT IS AND I’M BEING OBJECTIVE!!!
[/quote]
He didn’t see you post. You’re on Ignore.
And I can see why, you ARE a stupid moron on this subject. You don’t deserve his time nor mine.
I have NEVER put anyone on Ignore since I joined this site in 2004. I may very well make you the first one.
I wouldn’t do it because I know I’M RIGHT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WHAT IT IS AND I’M BEING OBJECTIVE; I’d do it because you are too stupid for me to waste my time on you.[/quote]
Because I see abortion as the removal of a fetus from a woman (which results in the death of that fetus) instead of THE DELIBRATE PREMEDITATED BLOODY MUDER OF A POOR INNOCENT ANGELIC BABY?
Is anyone who doesnt march to the “abortion is murder” drum too stupid as well?
You’ll also note I never said it wasnt the womans fault that the fetus dies - but reading comprehension goes right out the winda when you’re busy getting high and mighty about calling people murderers.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
So, lets reiterate: the right a fetus has to live supercedes the right a grown woman has to govern her own body.
Ensuring that a child is born is our collective responsibility, ensuring that that child is fed and otherwise cared for is not.
No medical procedure could ever remove a fetus from a woman without killing it.
Anything that results in the death of a human being is murder, except for things conservatives say isn’t murder.
Am I wisening up yet, Sloth? [/quote]
‘Wisening up?’ Sadly not. Going on ignore for continuing the stupidity, absurdity, and dishonesty of your “it aint killing, cause like, it aint our fault they’ll die after being deliberately removed from the womb.” I won’t waste my time with a person who blatantly reaches into the darkest, deepest, corner of absurdity in order to, dishonestly, avoid what we objectively know. Abortion is the deliberate, premeditated, taking of an innocent human life. Millions and millions of lives lost testify to the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself. You make your despicable, ludicrous, and flat out dishonest ‘statement’ upon the lives of millions lost. You will not do it in my sight, ever again.
The next person who responds to me, as a pro-choicer, had better come at it honestly. Otherwise don’t even bother with me. From now on, you will acknowledge the act for what it is, and defend it for what it is. I will not entertain intellectual cowardice and dishonesty. Every individual, pro-choicer or not, knows that abortion kills, deliberately, an innocent human life. Suggest anything else, and I will simply slap you on ignore. And no, I don’t care that you don’t care. Save your breath. But, if you want to talk about some other issue, on some other thread, about some other topic, with me…don’t come in here playing stupid about an objective, indisputable fact. Because I aint buying it anymore. You’re lying.
[/quote]
I’m lying… or I see it differently than you do.
But, no no, you go ahead and pound your fist more and scream I’M RIGHT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WHAT IT IS AND I’M BEING OBJECTIVE!!!
[/quote]
He didn’t see you post. You’re on Ignore.
And I can see why, you ARE a stupid moron on this subject. You don’t deserve his time nor mine.
I have NEVER put anyone on Ignore since I joined this site in 2004. I may very well make you the first one.
I wouldn’t do it because I know I’M RIGHT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WHAT IT IS AND I’M BEING OBJECTIVE; I’d do it because you are too stupid for me to waste my time on you.[/quote]
Because I see abortion as the removal of a fetus from a woman (which results in the death of that fetus) instead of THE DELIBRATE PREMEDITATED BLOODY MUDER OF A POOR INNOCENT ANGELIC BABY?
Is anyone who doesnt march to the “abortion is murder” drum too stupid as well?[/quote]
No, it’s not that. You’re not getting it. You can disagree and present your points to the best of your ability but don’t go with the It’s not my fault the fetus can’t survive outside the womb bullshit. Ironcross tried that moronic tack as well. It’s so stupid that guys like Sloth and me eventually realize we’re discussing the topic with The Borg.[/quote]
Who the fuck said anything about “fault”?
Look, a fetus has the right to life. A woman has the right to govern her body.
The fact that a fetus cannot (yet) be removed from a woman and survive forces us, as a society, to choose between those two rights.
Is this accurate, so far?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You’ll also note I never said it wasnt the womans fault that the fetus dies - but reading comprehension goes right out the winda when you’re busy getting high and mighty about calling people murderers.[/quote]
I think many people including yourself honestly don’t feel like its murder.
But it is:
A) death
B) human
C) innocent (as innocent as any human can be)
D) premeditated
When you connect all of those dots you, Capped and others, end up in that box canyon I referred to earlier.[/quote]
Pulling the plug on a person on life support.
Death. Human. Innocent. Premeditated.
Bombing any area with civilians.
Death. Human. Innocent. Premeditated.
I could go on, but you get the point. Under those criteria, a lot of things you DON’T consider murder would be defined as such.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
…Look, a fetus has the right to life. A woman has the right to govern her body…
[/quote]
We’re going over old ground here. WE ALL have the right to govern our own bodies (or should, for instance, generally speaking, I’m for drug legalization) but that right only extends to the point where we are not harming someone else’s body.[/quote]
Ok. And the fact that a fetus cannot safely be removed from a woman means we either side with the right of life of the fetus or the womans right to govern her body.
Right?
But if a fetus COULD safely be removed from a woman, we wouldnt have to make that choice. It would satisfy both rights.
Yet the idea of working to find a way to do this gets you and Sloth covering your ears and yelling LAALALALLAICANTHEARYOU MURDERMURDERMURDER
This is why I find it hard to respect your position, Push: you are against abortion. Ok. You see it as murder. I disagree, but, ok. You want to rally against things like providing women with free or low cost birth control (which would reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and, thus, reduce abortions). You support economic policies which result in people living in poverty (hint: lots of women get abortions because they cant afford a(nother) child). You go ape shit when I suggest finding a way to remove a fetus from a woman without it dying.
So you seem set on making sure the conditions are ripe for abortions to happen, even though you dont want them to happen.
So, honestly, it seems more like you want to prove your moral righteousness rather than solve a problem.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
If a military bombing mission were set up and executed so that the prime objective was strictly to kill all the innocent civilian babies and the enemy tank formation was considered the collateral damage THEN you’d have a point.[/quote]
Do you think the POINT of abortion is to kill babies?
Serious question. Do you think the doctors and nurses who perform abortions, and/or the women who get abortions and/or the organizations that provide space and equipment for abortions have a desire to kill babies, in and of itself? Do you think they WANT to be doing it, that it fulfills some sort of desire?