[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
There is no actual evidence of trenbolone increasing prolactin. There is also no evidence of trenbolone being progestagenic, other than an absolutely trivial potency in this regard of 1% that of progesterone itself. Trenbolone that actually is trenbolone doesn’t require dopaminergic drugs.
If you like using them anyway, that’s another matter.
But if there’s an advantage to combining cabergoline and pramipexole, I don’t know what it would be as their mechanism in the brain is the same.
[/quote]
Woah, really???
I thought all 19-nors caused prolactin issues??
So what then accounts for the nose-dive in libido that so many people report on tren cycles that i’ve been reading about on all these forums?
I’m actually really interested in hearing what you have to say on this as i’ve only recently tried tren and never without Test and never without caber and/or prami etc…
There are two ways in which this libido loss can occur.
One is that some run trenbolone cycles where there is little or no aromatizing steroid used along with it. The result is abnormally low estrogen levels, which can kill libido.
The second is that some experience a response where increased androgen levels up to a point improve libido, but past that libido is actually reduced.
So comparing cycles A and B, where B has more drug, doesn’t wind up necessarily being valid as to whether B is causing a given new effect.
In this instance, for example just because someone has done a gram of testosterone per week previously and had good libido, and later did a gram of testosterone per week plus 50 mg/day trenbolone acetate and had reduced libido, doesn’t show that trenbolone reduces libido.
I too had read that sides from Tren could be caused by it increasing prolactin. Besides Cabergoline, I’ve seen many recommendations for Vitex as a less costly, less side ridden, yet effective tool for fighting prolactin sides on a Tren cycle… It’s all BS?
[quote]SwD wrote:
I too had read that sides from Tren could be caused by it increasing prolactin. Besides Cabergoline, I’ve seen many recommendations for Vitex as a less costly, less side ridden, yet effective tool for fighting prolactin sides on a Tren cycle… It’s all BS?
[/quote]
Probably. OTC products are rarely good enough as solutions to pharmaceutical issues
[quote]SwD wrote:
I too had read that sides from Tren could be caused by it increasing prolactin.[/quote]
But without even a trace of evidence provided, correct?[/quote]
Probably part of it is so more shit can be sold. Dostinex can get pretty pricey.
[/quote]
Never seen a trace of evidence. But to be honest, I research the “boards”, not scientific literature, so I rarely see any shred of evidence. I count on you Mr Roberts and a few others… and of course on “real world results”, though it’s quite evident false truths can spread and become gospel as it’s repeated, even though it’s off the mark.
Maybe it was a ploy to sell Dostinex but Vitex is pretty cheap. Anyhow, if it’s all BS anyway…
[quote]OTS1 wrote:
You’ve gone through some stressful stuff recently. There’s completely good reasons why your libido might be low that have nothing to do with AAS.
As for myself, I’m currently on 75mg/day TA, 20mg/day Dbol and 250iu hcg 3x/week and my libido is great. Tren and me are friends. Except that feeling like a human pincushion with the daily injects sucks.[/quote]
Hello,
just curious OTS1.
Do you not run test with that cycle? If so, how much?
[quote]SwD wrote:
I too had read that sides from Tren could be caused by it increasing prolactin.[/quote]
But without even a trace of evidence provided, correct?[/quote]
I saw that (in vitro?) study you posted that showed tren causes less agonism than testosterone at prolactin receptors. But, I just read that 5a-reductase is one of the enzymes that converts progesterone into pregnanolon. I’m still confused if it’s supposedly progesterone or prolactin causing side effects. But, tren could inhibit some of the many enzymes that metabolize steroids. That could cause a build up of certain steroids, causing irritability, agitation, lactation (which seems like a prolactin side), lowered libido, etc. I wonder what sort of effect would happen with a high dose of DHEA.
I also wonder if either a dopamine agonist or testosterone just has the opposite effects or actually reverses some of the effects of tren.
If everyone is going to take dopamine agonists with their 2 grams of testosterone, I suggest some consider taking a large dose of fish oil, glutamate and a choline supplement to help with muscle building.
[quote]OTS1 wrote:
You’ve gone through some stressful stuff recently. There’s completely good reasons why your libido might be low that have nothing to do with AAS.
As for myself, I’m currently on 75mg/day TA, 20mg/day Dbol and 250iu hcg 3x/week and my libido is great. Tren and me are friends. Except that feeling like a human pincushion with the daily injects sucks.[/quote]
Hello,
just curious OTS1.
Do you not run test with that cycle? If so, how much?
Thanks[/quote]
he doesn’t need to run test. the dbol an hcg are enough. hcg will produce test. which will aromatize, along with the dbol. to produce enough estrogen. to keep everything functioning properly.
What he said. I learned this from reading BR’s posts, and then doing some independent research that different people pointed me to:
There are two types of effects that testosterone has: Androgen receptor (AR) mediated effects, and non-AR mediated effects.
Some drugs produce high AR type effects. Tren is a good example, along with masteron, deca, primo, and others.
Some drugs produce non-AR type effects. Dbol, Drol and others.
Your AR’s don’t discriminate. They are “on” or they are not. They don’t care if it’s test or mast or tren. Same principle applies to non-AR effects.
If I combine the two types of drugs, I always have gotten good results with minimal negative sides. I do get some “positive” sides though, like increased libido, and generally good feelings.
The HCG keeps the testes producing enough test to aromatize to the point of normality.
Dbol has been easily and cheaply available, so I have used that recently. I’m almost out though. I think that my next cycle may be a 6-8 weeker of tren and drol with HCG. Type I, Type II, and enough estro to keep me going. I just haven’t decided on weather or not I want to run an oral for that long. As far as I know, there isn’t an injectable Type II out there (with the exception of test) so if someone gets a good idea, let me know.
been reading the whole thread here and im glad bill cleared up a couple things that i was about to say myself but obviously its alot better coming from bill… in regards to the libido issue, i know it might sound crazy to some guys but dont underestimate the power of placebo effect. so many times ive heard of guys using tren and 2 days later say they couldnt get a hard on no matter what they did…
i think alot of times alot of that is in ur head. i had a friend recently who had been complaining up and down how his tren was killing his libido and giving him “RAGE” only to have his product tested by a friend of ours and find out his shit was 100% counterfeit!!! hence the placebo effect… just another reason i homebrew nowadays. but thats a whole other topic… good luck with everything bro