Liberal Joke

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]CDM wrote:
And as far as a recording artist, it has nothing to do with IQ in the academic sense, but a music sense. If you can write a hook you will sell records, if you can’t you won’t. Every new music movement proves this: hair metal, grunge, rap, emo. Whatever you like, when it first explodes on the scene there is the rush to find other artist like them and you have a million copycats, that eventually die off because they can’t write a hook. Or they do like Korn did and hire The Matrix to write half their record for them.
[/quote]

I will address this because it is wrong. Do you think Celine Dione writes her own music? Do you think she would be anything more than a huge pain in my ears if it weren’t for some very well timed CD releases and a huge movie premier with one of her songs as the theme? Success in many aspects of culture are directly related to simply acting at a time that promotes what you have to sell, regardless of intelligence or hard work. The only artists that stick for years are those who either change their styles drastically over the years in an attempt to keep up, or those like Prince who were simply so revolutionary when they first came out that they never had to change a thing. In fact, he may be the only example of an artist that lasted for several decades without changing a damn thing but which jeans he wanted to wear with the ass cut out of them.

New Kids on the Block, The Backstreet Boys. Talented? no. Wrote really great songs? No. In fact, if it weren’t for teenage girls, they would have never made their way onto lunchboxes and backpacks. They were simply in the right place at the right time. It had little to do with their own drive, intelligence, or hard work aside from following orders from their producer and manager.

The point is, many of these people aren’t working very hard at all, at least not more than many others. They simply were handed an opportunity and fit in a niche at the right time. Therefore, acting as if “wealth” is some earned right is simply blind followership of those already in positions of wealth and power. I mean, I won’t ever call Bush an “idiot”, but his daddy was president for crying out loud. I applaud that about as much as I applaud the act of the children of a doctor actually going to college. I mean, shit, shouldn’t they?

82

[quote]Professor X wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
For one thing, I never stated explicitly or implicitly that any working class regardless of wealth have tried to rip off anybody. Hell, I’m working class, as is the rest of my family. Through working harder and smarter, und utilizing different strategies than just working slightly harder than the next guy, I do plan on becoming wealthy.

Who doesn’t walk around claiming that they would like to eventually be wealthy? It doesn’t mean it will happen for you just like it doesn’t happen for millions of other hard working “working class” people. What I find amazingly irritating from many “Conservatives” today is this holier than thou attitude as if their shit doesn’t stink and everyone else who either isn’t wealthy or in the public eye or both (as long as they are also not Conservatives) falls into the “lazy, steal from the government” category. It is truly a dumb way to view the world especially when coming from people who are NOT rich. You are basically a wealthy wannabe who screams your support of corporate success when the truth is, you wouldn’t be accepted at the table of most of the same people you are cheering on. Why do you think you are better, harder working, or smarter than “poor people”? Please don’t say you don’t think this because that is exactly what has been implied by your posts.

[/quote]
Who said anything about wishing or wanting? I said PLANNING. Big fucking difference.

What makes me think I’m better, smarter or harder working? Simple- Results. Higher test scores, better grades, longer hours, more and better creative problem solving abilities. The list could continue, but this isn’t a job application.

Accepted at the table? All ready have been. Not showing lingering bitterness or outright contempt goes a long way too.

I’ll respond further later, but I’ve got some prety important shit to take care of at the moment.

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I will address this because it is wrong. Do you think Celine Dione writes her own music? Do you think she would be anything more than a huge pain in my ears if it weren’t for some very well timed CD releases and a huge movie premier with one of her songs as the theme? Success in many aspects of culture are directly related to simply acting at a time that promotes what you have to sell, regardless of intelligence or hard work. The only artists that stick for years are those who either change their styles drastically over the years in an attempt to keep up, or those like Prince who were simply so revolutionary when they first came out that they never had to change a thing. In fact, he may be the only example of an artist that lasted for several decades without changing a damn thing but which jeans he wanted to wear with the ass cut out of them.

New Kids on the Block, The Backstreet Boys. Talented? no. Wrote really great songs? No. In fact, if it weren’t for teenage girls, they would have never made their way onto lunchboxes and backpacks. They were simply in the right place at the right time. It had little to do with their own drive, intelligence, or hard work aside from following orders from their producer and manager.

The point is, many of these people aren’t working very hard at all, at least not more than many others. They simply were handed an opportunity and fit in a niche at the right time. Therefore, acting as if “wealth” is some earned right is simply blind followership of those already in positions of wealth and power. I mean, I won’t ever call Bush an “idiot”, but his daddy was president for crying out loud. I applaud that about as much as I applaud the act of the children of a doctor actually going to college. I mean, shit, shouldn’t they? [/quote]

I don’t know about Celine Dion, because I don’t own, and never would own any of her stuff. But you will notice I didn’t list pre-packaged pop as one of the things I considered a movement. That has been going on since The Monkees, at least. I’ll agree on Prince but would add in AC/DC, and to a lesser extent The Melvins.

But while I am not a fan of the pre-packaged stuff, I will acknowledge that they have some kind of talent that makes the public want to buy what they have to offer. I don’t think Britney Spears can sing at all but she has been smart enough too take what little talent she has and turn in into a goldmine. And it does take talent to dance like they do, I don’t know for sure, but I would think learning all the moves would take some hard work and repetition to synchronize it all.

And I don’t think groups like Backstreet Boys and the like were just handed an opportunity, and I am not defending them, but I am sure it was more of an audition and they just didn’t take the first 5 guys who responded to their ad and said your in the group.

And I personally don’t care how wealthy they are or how they act about it. You are never going to get the Paris Hilton’s of the world to believe that their wealth is anything other than a result of their own brilliance. That is why Kabbalah is so popular with Hollywood crowd.The only problem I have is when they bitch about the problems of being rich and famous.

84

Opportunity always has and always will be based on one thing and one thing only. Persistance! Look at how macy’s was formed. The guy failed at 6 previous business ventures. The seventh seemed to be the charm.

The problem isn’t opportunity, it is the fact that most people are not looking for it. They don’t think. They just go along with the crowd. The never learn how to control their emotions so they can make good decisions. The truth is people don’t make it because it requires them to change.

It is equeal opportunity, but only if you are looking for it.

85

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Who said anything about wishing or wanting? I said PLANNING. Big fucking difference.[/quote]

You don’t think poor people PLAN to get rich? The only difference is the avenue to reaching it. I thought the movie The Boiler Room did a great job of connecting the issues between “the rich suburbs” vs “growing up in the hood”.

Seth: “Notorious B.I.G. said it best: Either your slinging crack rock, or you got a wicked jump shot. Nobody wants to work for it anymore. There’s no honor in taking the after school job at Mickey D’s. Honor’s in the dollar, kid. So I went the white boy way of slinging crack rock. I became a stock broker.”

[quote]
What makes me think I’m better, smarter or harder working? Simple- Results. Higher test scores, better grades, longer hours, more and better creative problem solving abilities. The list could continue, but this isn’t a job application.[/quote]

I’m laughing right now. Results? Why aren’t you rich yet? God forbid you ever get hit with the reality that you can not predict success and that the lesson is in the journey, not the destination. Setbacks? Could never happen to you, huh?

[quote]
Accepted at the table? All ready have been. Not showing lingering bitterness or outright contempt goes a long way too.[/quote]

What? What table have you been accepted at? That question is truly rhetorical because name dropping will simply make this comment seem worse. A wealthy man joking with you right before he asks for coffee or you dating his daughter doesn’t equal “sitting at the table”.

Don’t let me hold you up. You have table sittin’ to do.

86

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Indeed the backbone of this country. Who employs over 70% of the U.S. workforce? C’mon, you’re the uber-smart, internationally renowned Stanford professor. You know the answer to this one.

SMALL BUSINESS.[/quote]

So you’re telling me Small Businesses do not have low-paid hard working EMPLOYEES, and that their success is just a result of the hard work of the owners?

What would be of small businesses if suddenly everybody that was not an entrepreneur wanted a high-paying job in a large corporation?

Heck, I’m all for small businesses. More power to them. In fact, most Social-Democrat governments in Europe have a big thing about Small Business. In some countries there, they’re actually MORE than 70%. Nothing wrong with that. But make no mistake: the success of small business is even more dependent on those “lazy” poor people as it is on their owners.

87

[quote]Professor X wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Who said anything about wishing or wanting? I said PLANNING. Big fucking difference.

You don’t think poor people PLAN to get rich? The only difference is the avenue to reaching it. I thought the movie The Boiler Room did a great job of connecting the issues between “the rich suburbs” vs “growing up in the hood”.

Seth: “Notorious B.I.G. said it best: Either your slinging crack rock, or you got a wicked jump shot. Nobody wants to work for it anymore. There’s no honor in taking the after school job at Mickey D’s. Honor’s in the dollar, kid. So I went the white boy way of slinging crack rock. I became a stock broker.”

What makes me think I’m better, smarter or harder working? Simple- Results. Higher test scores, better grades, longer hours, more and better creative problem solving abilities. The list could continue, but this isn’t a job application.

I’m laughing right now. Results? Why aren’t you rich yet? God forbid you ever get hit with the reality that you can not predict success and that the lesson is in the journey, not the destination. Setbacks? Could never happen to you, huh?

Accepted at the table? All ready have been. Not showing lingering bitterness or outright contempt goes a long way too.

What? What table have you been accepted at? That question is truly rhetorical because name dropping will simply make this comment seem worse. A wealthy man joking with you right before he asks for coffee or you dating his daughter doesn’t equal “sitting at the table”.

I’ll respond further later, but I’ve got some prety important shit to take care of at the moment.

Don’t let me hold you up. You have table sittin’ to do.

[/quote]

I don’t know or care what button I may have pushed with you man, but the assumptions you are basing these comments on are absolute bullshit.
Setbacks- Too many to count. Not worth it anyways. While other people are using their setbacks to justify their station in life, I’m getting back up, dusting off and trying again.

As far as the table comments go- Thats just fucking rude and stupid. I’ve earned everything I’ve ever made. Started a tree company at 23, which enabled me to save and get through some schooling, and more recently started a consulting office for an international patent company. Now that that is established I’ve also just been made an offer to work for a major energy corporation.
So Fuck YOU!

Since you like disparaging other peoples accomplishments- Let me ask you this- What the fuck have you done? Grubbed off of the government to gain every advantage that you can be allowed? Why don’t you opt out of your service contract and start your own practice? I know a few damn rich dentists.

Don’t even bother answering. No one with your weak assed mindset could ever even dream of doing something like that.
Have a nice day, Punk.

88

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I think we all might be missing the point. Or at least those of us who do not have an agenda.

My father was a blue collar worker all of his life. He worked harder than any man that I have ever known. And he never made it above the average.

Working class people work hard, no doubt.

My point is that in order to become financially successful one must also work hard (and smart).

Is that a fair statement?

Even that statement misses out one very important aspect…being in the right place at the right time. Some may call it luck, chance or even destiny, but most “rich” people wouldn’t be so without being given an opportunity. Do you think the highest paid recording artist is the most talented, smartest vocalist in the world? No, of course not. There is someone even more talented with an even higher IQ who won’t make it, simply because they were never given a chance. The fault in your logic is assuming there is equal opportunity for all. There isn’t. I worked my ass off through school to the detriment of much of my personal life at the time. That doesn’t mean that there wasn’t some other kid out there who simply needed the same opportunities I got whether that be from parental guidance or the schools attended.

The mistake of many conservatives seems to be their choice to ignore this concept. Someone is not poor because they didn’t work as hard or as smart as someone else. It is just not that simple.
[/quote]

But, don’t forget that those who are working hard and looking for the opportunity have a better chance of “finding” the opportunity.

To use your own example, the biggest recording stars are probably not the most talented. But, did they beat the pavement trying to find better agents, better song writers etc.

I don’t think there is much an element of luck involved as there is an element of persistence.

89

I don’t understand these days why one needs huge opportunities thrown at them to make good money. I just typed in “how to get rich” in google and one of the sponsored results was an ad for a cheap ebook that (I know) contains some excellent info on how to make money online.

All this person would need is a computer with internet access, maybe $500, a bank account, a credit card, half a brain and some work ethic (depending on how long he has to start this business).

90

Prof,
Thanks for the inspiration too. Sometimes I can be a bit down on myself, but nothing brings back the tenacity and perseverence that are requried to succede like a challenge.
A little review of accomplishments and qualities is kinda nice sometimes.

91

[quote]The Mage wrote:
It wasn’t Bill Gate’s computer knowledge that made him the richest person on the planet, it was his business skills. (Whether you like them or not.)[/quote]

Actually, it was the fact that his mommy knew somebody at IBM and helped getting him the contract for MS-DOS, and his pop financed the thing.

At Harvard, he spent most of his time playing poker.

Pretty typical story.

Oh, and if you’re wondering about his ethics…

Back in the late 70s, when they founded MS, Bill thought he deserved more stock than Paul, and based his argument on the fact that Paul, as the new head of software development for MITS, had more than one job. This ignores the important fact that Allen was not only half of the Microsoft team, he was also Microsoft’s only customer. Relentlessly pushing the argument that as the only Microsoft employee totally devoted to serving the MITS account, Gates deserved more Microsoft shares, he of course got his way. Bill Gates received 64 percent of Microsoft to Paul Allen’s 36 percent, which explains why Gates is the richest man in the world and Allen is only number two or three on the list.

Ironically, Gates later went to MITS president Ed Roberts to beg for a job. This is according to Roberts, who agreed to hire the “impoverished” Gates for $10 per hour. Under these changed circumstances, one might have expected Paul Allen to call for a redistribution of shares, but he didn’t. Bill was allowed to keep his victory.

This is just one story. There are many more.

You brought him up, not me…

92

[quote]I don’t know or care what button I may have pushed with you man, but the assumptions you are basing these comments on are absolute bullshit.
Setbacks- Too many to count. Not worth it anyways. While other people are using their setbacks to justify their station in life, I’m getting back up, dusting off and trying again.

As far as the table comments go- Thats just fucking rude and stupid. I’ve earned everything I’ve ever made. Started a tree company at 23, which enabled me to save and get through some schooling, and more recently started a consulting office for an international patent company. Now that that is established I’ve also just been made an offer to work for a major energy corporation.
So Fuck YOU![/quote]

Damn, I want everyone to succeed, but with the setbacks, what if they keep coming and you spend your whole life doing the right thing, trying again, and still can’t get what you “deserve”?

You might be able to leave behind a few bucks for your kids when you die, to ensure they can easily go to college and buy a home. Then again, maybe not. Life is harsh.

What if your next boss if female, makes a pass at you, and fires you because you turned her down?

What if you get injured on the job and can no longer perform the type of work you have spent your life getting good at?

What if the company is bought out and you are fired?

What if that sector of the economy tanks and thousands of people with your skills start looking for work?

I know. None of these issues are your fault. But, these things, or more, or worse, happen to people. You don’t control any of these things… you can only control your plans.

Of course there are success stories, but do you realize how many people work hard their entire lives just so they can retire and die with some money in the bank? Woohoo, nice life!

93

[quote]hspder wrote:
The Mage wrote:
It wasn’t Bill Gate’s computer knowledge that made him the richest person on the planet, it was his business skills. (Whether you like them or not.)

Actually, it was the fact that his mommy knew somebody at IBM and helped getting him the contract for MS-DOS, and his pop financed the thing.

At Harvard, he spent most of his time playing poker.

Pretty typical story.

Oh, and if you’re wondering about his ethics…

Back in the late 70s, when they founded MS, Bill thought he deserved more stock than Paul, and based his argument on the fact that Paul, as the new head of software development for MITS, had more than one job. This ignores the important fact that Allen was not only half of the Microsoft team, he was also Microsoft’s only customer. Relentlessly pushing the argument that as the only Microsoft employee totally devoted to serving the MITS account, Gates deserved more Microsoft shares, he of course got his way. Bill Gates received 64 percent of Microsoft to Paul Allen’s 36 percent, which explains why Gates is the richest man in the world and Allen is only number two or three on the list.

Ironically, Gates later went to MITS president Ed Roberts to beg for a job. This is according to Roberts, who agreed to hire the “impoverished” Gates for $10 per hour. Under these changed circumstances, one might have expected Paul Allen to call for a redistribution of shares, but he didn’t. Bill was allowed to keep his victory.

This is just one story. There are many more.

You brought him up, not me…[/quote]

A business man fighting for a larger stake in the business at the beginning of the company?

HOW DARE HE!

lol

Please do more…

94

Vroom, That’s a whole lot of what if and no what is.
I work and exist in the what is not the what if.
If you plan on being successfull in your own consulting practice you better get real handy with that concept.
What if all of those what ifs come true? See the part where I dust it off and move on. Besides, there is something fresh and exhilirating about starting something from scratch.

95

[quote]vroom wrote:

Of course there are success stories, but do you realize how many people work hard their entire lives just so they can retire and die with some money in the bank? Woohoo, nice life![/quote]

My grandmother was probably the hardest working woman I ever knew. She worked three jobs while she was raising my mom and her other kids and continued working two at a time until I was out of high school. She had many setbacks, not to mention she only had a 3rd grade education due to being forced to work at an early age to help ends meet when she was growing up. That didn’t stop her from trying to give me money on frequent occasions or buying me things that I now know must have truly taken every cent she had. All of that was just so she could give us something.

I never worked hard just to to make money. Yes, it may have been one of the goals but making more and more money was not what kept me up at night studying. If anything was my motivation, it was a true attempt to get her to see me walk across a stage before she died and accept my degrees. I personally don’t understand why money has become the driving focus of the “Christian Right”. Someone is obviously not attending Sunday School. I was under the impression that life itself was about more than that.

96

[quote]hspder wrote:
So you’re telling me Small Businesses do not have low-paid hard working EMPLOYEES, and that their success is just a result of the hard work of the owners?[/quote]

No - I’m telling you that if it weren;t for the small business owner that took a chance, and decided to be his own boss, that there would be none of those jobs, high paying, or low paying. It is because of the entrepreneur, and his hard work and willingness to take risks that there are jobs to be had in this country in the first place. Everything after that is just a mere result of hard work and risk taking.

Why would they? Most small business owners like the freedom of being their own boss way more than they value the paycheck. I know - I am one.

[quote]Heck, I’m all for small businesses. More power to them. In fact, most Social-Democrat governments in Europe have a big thing about Small Business. In some countries there, they’re actually MORE than 70%. Nothing wrong with that. But make no mistake: the success of small business is even more dependent on those “lazy” poor people as it is on their owners.
[/quote]

I disagree 100%. If not for the individual stepping out and taking a chance, there would be no jobs period. You should know that as well as anyone - why the denial?

And what the fuck do I care about what Europe does? That’s right - you are a Eurocentric excuse maker.

97

[quote]hspder wrote:
What would be of small businesses if suddenly everybody that was not an entrepreneur wanted a high-paying job in a large corporation?

rainjack wrote:
Why would they? Most small business owners like the freedom of being their own boss way more than they value the paycheck. I know - I am one. [/quote]

Read my question again. What you said is very true, but it has nothing to do with what I asked.

[quote]hspder wrote:
I disagree 100%. If not for the individual stepping out and taking a chance, there would be no jobs period. You should know that as well as anyone - why the denial?[/quote]

If there were no individuals taking a chance, you can always work for Government. It’s called Communism. Ever heard of it? It ain’t pretty, no, but it’s not impossible.

If, however, nobody wanted to work for somebody else, we wouldn’t have a society at all. I mean, I get that you’re a conservative, but are you really aiming to conserve pre-Civilization times? Do you really think we can sustain 6 billion people, for even a month, with NOBODY working FOR somebody else?

You can argue both are equally bad, but arguing the latter is possible while the former is not is simply absurd.

98

[quote]ZEB wrote:
A business man fighting for a larger stake in the business at the beginning of the company?

HOW DARE HE![/quote]

So you truly believe in being willing to do ANYTHING – including backstabbing your friend.

Yes, the guy was his FRIEND. He become richer at HIS FRIEND’s EXPENSE (i.e., he is richer because his friend is poorer).

Even if you don’t find any problem with that, well, you made my point.

I, for one, would be incapable of doing what he did. Does that make me “stupid and lazy”? Is the adage “No good deed goes unpunished” true?

I guess my hippie parents taught me wrong then.

99

[quote]hspder wrote:
hspder wrote:
What would be of small businesses if suddenly everybody that was not an entrepreneur wanted a high-paying job in a large corporation?

rainjack wrote:
Why would they? Most small business owners like the freedom of being their own boss way more than they value the paycheck. I know - I am one.

Read my question again. What you said is very true, but it has nothing to do with what I asked.[/quote]

Let me help you out then. I am saying that your questiojn is absolutely ludicrous in a capitalist society. Try again. Is that less absurd to you?

In a nation that was founded on individual freedom, I find that option untenable. You should too, being the world famous economist that you are.

You write fantastical bullsit like that and have the audacity to call me absurd? Dude - this isn’t your left-wing anti-capitalistic cronies you are talking to.

But nice try at the deflection. My point remains - small business is the backbone of this country. If it weren’t for us - there would be no money in the government’s treasury to pay all of the gov’t jobs you thinak are so readily available as an alternative to working for a mean old capitalist pig.

[quote]You can argue both are equally bad, but arguing the latter is possible while the former is not is simply absurd.
[/quote]

It is absolutely impossible for communism to have much of a play in this country. At least it will be impossible as long as there is oppotunity for individual freedoms here.

For the love of Pete - you are going to have to try harder than that if you want a hayseed CPA to take you even remotely seriously.

100

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I don’t know or care what button I may have pushed with you man, but the assumptions you are basing these comments on are absolute bullshit.
Setbacks- Too many to count. Not worth it anyways. While other people are using their setbacks to justify their station in life, I’m getting back up, dusting off and trying again.

As far as the table comments go- Thats just fucking rude and stupid. I’ve earned everything I’ve ever made. Started a tree company at 23, which enabled me to save and get through some schooling, and more recently started a consulting office for an international patent company. Now that that is established I’ve also just been made an offer to work for a major energy corporation.
So Fuck YOU!

Since you like disparaging other peoples accomplishments- Let me ask you this- What the fuck have you done? Grubbed off of the government to gain every advantage that you can be allowed? Why don’t you opt out of your service contract and start your own practice? I know a few damn rich dentists.

Don’t even bother answering. No one with your weak assed mindset could ever even dream of doing something like that.
Have a nice day, Punk.
[/quote]

I must have missed this. Why do you assume you know what my plans are? “Grubbing off the government”? You obviously have no clue what you speak of.

However, in order to avoid laying out my personal plans on a public forum, if you truly want to know my goals and intentions, pm me. Otherwise, you simply make yourself look stupid for assuming you know anything about me or my goals in life.

Beyond that, no one disparaged your accomplishments. You were questioned as far as why you think you are better than others. I will never understand why many conservatives are the first to cry “elitist” even though they carry the exact same notions in their heads.