Libel?

Off Topic
1

About a year ago I was brought in for questioning by a local police officer. The cop had found out where I worked and met me at my house when I got off. Knowing I had nothing to hide, I agreed to ride with him to see what was going on. This was stupid and I strongly advise anyone else to exercise your right to shut the hell up. Anyway,I made it to the police station and was read my rights. I had done nothing illegal so I figured there’d be no chance of getting charged with a crime.

He had a folder on his desk that had a name that I recognized. He then began to accuse me of felony vandalism (over $2,000 damage). I have always had respect for other’s property and this is something I would not do, even at my drunkest moments.

Turns out the person whose name was on the folder had written a statement claiming that I had confessed to him that I committed this crime. The twist is this person was the one who did it. He had actually told me and a few other friends, bragging about it.

This guy is a total shitbag rat. He was always a friend of friends of mine but I never really liked him. He sometimes found his way around me through other friends. I was always a little suspicious but never expected anything like this.

Basically, this guy found himself in a world of trouble after behaving wrecklessly for way too long. He had stolen a car and shit hit the fan from there. The guy was not man enough to take responsibility for his actions. When questioned by the police, he began crying like a little bitch and providing information on anyone he knew anything about.

I believe that they were getting ready to charge him with this vandalism, and he made up something to clear his name. The whole time they were questioning me, I knew it was him who told them this bullshit. I believe the police knew he was responisible but were trying to get a statement from me saying so. Even knowing what this shitbag had done to me, I would not tell on him. I would never tell on anyone unless is was to protect my family or really close friends. Hell, I did not tell on him even though he falsely accused me and it would have saved my ass.

I told the cops I did not know anything and that if I was not being charged then I was ready to leave. They said they would probably see me in a couple days to arrest me if I did not cooperate with them. They were basically trying to strong arm me.

Two days later, the same officer was at my house again when I got home. He asked if I had anything to say to him and I said no and walked toward the door to the house. He then arrested me in my front yard. I was charged, released on bond, and awaited my court date. For some reason the case kept getting continued. On the final court date, my lawyer comes up to me with a letter the guy had written. In it, he says that his statements were false and that he was on drugs at the time. He also said in the letter that he would not be able to attend court because of college.

There are many ways that have crossed my mind at getting back at this guy for almost ruining my life. Many are quite gruesome.

However, I’d rather get back at him legally instead of one day having to deal with another criminal charge. This is probably pretty stupid but I never knew what libel was until recently. I’ve heard of slander all my life but not libel. Libel is supposedly easier to prove.

Do I have a case for libel? A false accusation and later a letter saying the accusation was false does not seem that bad to me. But is it really worth the time and money to hire a lawyer?

2

Dude, you know the guy did it, but still you decide to tell the cops you know nothing simply because you don’t want to tattle? If you know he did the shit then just tell them. You fucked yourself over by not telling them the truth.

3

No. It is not worth it to hire a lawyer to pursue this. What are your damages? To prevail on a case such as this you must prove damages as an element of your claim. Your damages here are probably only the cost hiring the lawyer to defend you in the first vandalism case, which would not justify the cost of hiring a second lawyer to pursue the cause of action (your wasted time is not “damages” in the legal sense of the word). And no lawyer (or at least no respectable, quality lawyer) would take this on a contingency fee basis because 1) the damages, if any, are small (compared to the attorneys’ fess) and 2) the defendant (the guy who tried to frame you) is sounds like he would be judgment proof (as a practical matter, he has no assets from which to collect on any judgment you might obtain if you win). Your alternative would be to proceed pro se (you are your own lawyer) and sue in a magistrate/small claims court to keep it simple. However, that will still cause you time and aggravation, and some small fees, and you would still end up with, at best, a judgment that might not be collectible. Of course, if you are so mad that you have to do something, then go ahead and try to get your judgment. You can then record the judgment in every locale where this guy owns property (depending on your jurisdiction), and you can likely adversely affect his credit. In my opinion, it just ain’t worth the hassle. Chalk this one up to the imperfection of our justice system in which the greater “good” sometimes outweighs individual’s rights…

4

A defamation suit would be tough – I don’t know for sure, but I have a feeling that there’s an absolute privilege with respect to statments given to investigating officers. Basically, some things, such as court testimony or statements by high elected officials, are absolutely privileged from libel suits, for a variety of public policy reasons.

However, you should talk to the police to see if you can file a criminal complaint.

If you’re serious though, you should think about talking to a lawyer who specializes in defamation cases, who could tell you the precise law in your jurisdiction.

5

Thank you BostonBarrister and cartman for your responses. I’d rather make an attempt at doing something about this than to some day regret inaction. I’ll definitely consider your advice.

Chrsmcl, there are certain rules that I’ve established in my life that reflect a bit of integrity that I like to maintain. One of those rules is to not tell on others. Any friend of mine will tell you how I value loyalty. Yes, it does seem foolish but who would you rather have as a friend? Someone who tells or someone who does not tell no matter what? Just something to think about.

6

[quote]carter12 wrote:
Yes, it does seem foolish but who would you rather have as a friend? Someone who tells or someone who does not tell no matter what? Just something to think about.

[/quote]
If one of my friend’s did what you did, I’d assume they were a bitch who was scared of retaliation.

I’d rather live in a world where people step-up and make it a safer place. A world where people aren’t afraid to speak out against those doing wrong. You didn’t do anything noble by not helping the police. You just made their job harder, and helped a scumbag escape justice.

7

I’m with doogie on this one, if said scumbag lied to implicate you in something and got you arrested, then you owe this person no loyalty.

The only reason I could understand your silence, but you don’t mention it, is if you feared for life and limb of yourself or family – particularly if you felt that your family would be threatened. Once you have your own family, all the tough guy talk and rules change.

It’s easy to be a gunslinger if you have no vulnerabilities…

8

Retaliation from this guy?
haha
That is actually quite humerous, so I’m hoping you were joking.

Did you not read the part where he cried like a little bitch and began telling on other people? These were people that he owed loyalty. Is this someone that any man would be afraid of? Let’s not forget the fact that the kid weighs about 130 lbs. soaking wet. Even today, I see him, HE RUNS THE OTHER WAY. Could I break him? Damn right. Even then, would I fear retaliation? Not a chance.

He obviously feared having another felony charge against him and decided to frame me. I was a perfect candidate for framing and he was probably coached along by the cop. It’s a small town and all they wanted to do was wrap up the case, and I seriously doubt they gave a damn whether they got the guilty party. The person’s property that was damaged had a direct link to the police department. That is key.

Since you think I should have brought the guy to justice, let me present this question. Would you help a police officer who just arrested you when he knew full well that you had nothing to do with the crime?

I assure you I have nothing to fear. You know, it’s been close to a year now and you’re the first to mention something like that.

Anyway, the point of this thread was not initially intended for judgement of my actions. I could care less what you think about me. Besides, if you think you can judge someone’s character by what they type on a message board, then god damn you need to wake the hell up.

Again, thanks to those who replied intelligently without passing judgement. I mean seriously guys, if you are of no help then why do you have so much time to sit down and type your opinions?

9

Carter- I think the reason people criticised your actions was that it was your “code” or “honour” that caused most of your problems.

If a cop has a written statement about you he would have had to arrest you- if only to avoid awkward questions from above.

Until you learn that the “no telling tales” rule does not apply to everyone you will cause yourself hassle.

If you want to get back at the guy just make sure that all your friends know what a piece of shit he really is.

Then do the true manly thing that you aimed for with your silence and just get on with your life.

Answer this question: on a scale of 1-1000 how much of a better person are you than him?

If you answer how I think you will, why are you worrying?

Jaime

10

you’re right, thanks jamieo

11

I didn’t say you were afraid, I said that would be the only reason for silence that I would understand.

Relax already.

12

No worries vroom.
When I first read your post, I thought it was insulting just because I’ve never heard that opinion before. I think I was maybe a little too sensitive. When I read it again, I thought differently and I can understand where you’re coming from. If I felt like digging a little deeper into the situation you might understand why I didn’t tell; but I’m not going to do that.
In any case, thanks for offering a different perspective.

13

When I read this, the words that come to mind are “heresay”, “evidence”, and “fucking idiot!” because of your stupid code.

14

Ill throw my hat in the ring briefly as this kind of thing is up my alley…

Here it is in a nutshell. I think we’re missing a piece of the puzzle. The part about the cops coming to your house the second time and arresting you is very confusing to me. I have arrested a lot of people and Im telling you two things happened here A.)you left out a significant part of the story or B.) the cop made an awfully bad arrest based only on a drug-addicts accusation(almost impossible for that to happen in my neck of the woods, but I guess its not out of the question). What were you charged with…vandalism/criminal mischief? What evidence did they present…your lawyer would have had to get all of this in discovery and you would know exactly what kind of case was lined up against you.

Like I said, where I work, that arrest would never happen if it was based just on this guys word…our laws dont allow for it and we know better. We would have to have some kind of further evidence.

Now…if he filed a police report and then recanted his statements in an affidavit, he can be charged with filing a false report, which is a felony in many states. Did you try and see if this avenue was pursued?

I dont mean this as an insult, but I have the feeling that there is something missing here.

By the way, police interviews can be very high pressure. No one is trying to “strong arm” you and I have never seen or been involved in a case personally where we simply tried to get a confession out of someone to pin the blame somewhere. 99.9% of us really do want the guilty party and no one else. Short of abusive tactics, everything is fair game, including accusing you outright to see how you react and so forth. If you’re innocent, stick to your guns and the truth usually comes out in the wash.

15

this whole thing sounds funny.
your right in that vroom doesnt know you so why did it bother you so much is it because maybe your feeling that way yourself. and hearing it from some other place may validate the feeling.

fact is you should have never let it get this far ,so just forget it. i dont know you either but your the one who posted this thread so ill say this your quick to defend yourself online but let people screw you in real life so it shouldnt be any surprise that one might think that fear was a factor.

i can tell you i have had something similar happen to me and i said what i knew than went to jail for kicking the guys ass. and i dont know about others but it feel alot better to sit in the bullpen for own gratification than the thought of the same because someone else lied to get you there

just my two cent
ozzy

16

Taking this guy to civil court is not the answer. Even if you win, what do you win? Is he worth anything? These things can be tied up in court for years, and the lawyers are the ones who end up winning.If I were you I would simply write it off to experience. Learn from it. In fact, make a list of how many things you learned from it. I am sure it would be a most long and impressive list!

17

A few more details:

Thanks for all your responses. You’re right I did leave out a few of the details. The most important detail is the one I’m about to give you. The charge was vandalism, in which this guy threw eggs at a police officer’s off duty truck. This is why I feel so strongly about them wanting to just get a conviction. Three months after the case was dropped, I got a letter in the mail from an insurance company saying that I owed them for the damage to the vehicle. This was cleared up immediately, but it’s evidence that they really just wanted to get the truck paid for.

Also, my reputation in this town is not a good one. This is partly because of the people I used to hang out with and is understandable. It’s my own fault. But, it’s improving each day. I don’t care about it that much and did not seek to better myself for a reputation, but it is a result of my hard work.

As far as him being charged:

This guy was on probation for the car theft. In court that day, the prosecutor said that he woould be found and charged with failure to appear in court. The filing a false report should have been another charge. Did he get charged with this? No, he was charged with neither. He also failed a drug test while on probation and was not charged. And get this, being a convicted felon, he now works for the town. There are people who have all the qualification and a clean record and still can’t get the job he now has. Why is he allowed all of this? The rational answer is that he’s an informant.

This guy pretended to be a badass and folded when things got tough. My little sister could kick his ass, but he had a strong desire for attention and he acted on it. This made him heartless and fake.

How I stand today:

I have moved on and the only reason I think about it is revenge. It really is that simple. I have not once questioned my actions in this situation.

And regardless of how you judge it, I’m stickin to my guns about not telling on people. If the police are doing their job the right way, they won’t need people to snitch.

Well I’m off to buy some eggs…
but for nutrition purposes only.

18

[quote]carter12 wrote:
This guy is a total shitbag rat. He was always a friend of friends of mine but I never really liked him. He sometimes found his way around me through other friends. I was always a little suspicious but never expected anything like this.

[/quote]

Carter, you’re right, I wouldn’t tell on my friends. But based on what you said here, I’m assuming he wasn’t a friend. Since you spoke about integrity, part of that would possbly be honesty. I understand in a situation where telling on a friend would be honesty but not loyalty and vice versa. I’ve been in those situations before. However, when you refer to somebody as a “total shitbag rat” I assume he is not your friend and the loyalty issue doesn’t apply and the honesty would take over.

19

That actually clears things up somewhat I guess. I can’t explain why the guy was not charged. Maybe he’s connected…life sucks that way.

One thing I have to correct you on is this. The police rely on “snitching” all the time. It IS how we do our job. Probably 90% of our information comes from informants, interviews and people just generally having big mouths. Forensics and more “scientific” avenues are much smaller than you think.

Next time, if some dirtbag tries to pin the rap on you, dont be afraid to tell the police everything you know. You said you are trying to rehabilitate a bad reputation and I would say that part of this would be getting over the mentality of “us against the police” - because thats exactly what happened there. Its not like this guy was best man in your wedding…

Anyway, good luck. I would just let this lie as nothing really came of it and steer clear of this douche in the future.

20

Alright, some basic rules of adult life.

If someone who is NOT a friend or family member, or otherwise closely involved with or related to you, does something and you’re questioned about it, you do NOT have some “moral obligation” to defend them or not tell on them. In fact, not doing so would be IMMORAL, because you’re letting shitbags run free to continue doing bad things to more people.

Secondly, when said shitbag, who you should’ve implicated to the police in the first place, tried to implicate YOU, in addition to your moral responsibility to tell them he did it, you have a T-Man responsibility, as someone who’s not going to take shit from some punk, who essentially ATTACKED you, lying down.

No offense, but some people need to GROW THE FUCK UP. This “moral code” of not telling on someone who means nothing to you yet who did somethinng really fucked is complete and utter bullshit. Some people watch way too many mafia movies when they’re young and take things a little to far. (Oh, and mobsters have really great morals too, don’t they)?

Friend or family, I can understand. Otherwise, don’t be an immature fuck.

No offense.