[quote]vroom wrote:
Of course it wasn’t in the case. Holy shit, perhaps you can stop playing lawyer for a moment or two?
[/quote]
Hmmmm, you want a lawyer to stop discussing a court case in a lawyerly fashion?
What’s the matter, feeling outgunned?
[quote]derek wrote:
If you look very closely, you can see that I was responding to shamus’ assertion that Libby outed a CIA agent.
His post sure seemed to say that V P was some Secret-Squirel, undercover 007 type or something and that her life was in danger.
Another Donnie Brasco? Right.
[/quote]
It’s nice to know that you hold the lives of CIA operatives, including those in support positions, in disdain, for political reasons.
No, I’m not talking about Valerie Plame.
Maybe you should put partisan politics on the second rung of your mental priority list?
[quote]vroom wrote:
It’s nice to know that you hold the lives of CIA operatives, including those in support positions, in disdain, for political reasons.
No, I’m not talking about Valerie Plame.
Maybe you should put partisan politics on the second rung of your mental priority list?[/quote]
Huh? I don’t care who YOU were talking about. What I posted, and you felt the need to comment on, was about Valerie Plame, by name, and only her.
If you can’t keep up, don’t butt in. OK?
[quote]derek wrote:
vroom wrote:
Strange how nobody cares that the executive branch of the government conspired to discredit someone who was doing his job.
It’s very dangerous to have the government going after citizens in this way. Very dangerous. It doesn’t matter whether it is happening on the left or the right of political spectrum.
That’s BIG. Very BIG.
It’s even more important that the government be held to the law than the populace.
Nothing more to add really, I just wanted to give Vroom a new avatar.
[/quote]
Derek! Thanks Man!! Here I am saddened by the Jessica Lunsford story (where this beast raped a little girl and buried her alive—see thread in Get A Life) and you gave me a great laugh!
Vroom, that SHOULD be your new avatar. Mine now honors the memory of Jessica and yours can honor your beliefs. How cool is that!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Derek! Thanks Man!! Here I am saddened by the Jessica Lunsford story (where this beast raped a little girl and buried her alive—see thread in Get A Life) and you gave me a great laugh!
Vroom, that SHOULD be your new avatar. Mine now honors the memory of Jessica and yours can honor your beliefs. How cool is that!!
[/quote]
You’re welcome!
I was going to ask you who that beautiful little girl was in your avatar. Now I know. I like that, nice tribute.
I have a 9 month old baby girl and if I think too long about that Jessica, I’ll definately tear up.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
shamus wrote:
Libby should rot in the slammer! He outed a CIA agent! And lied and still is! Clinton lied about a Blowjob!!! Who, in T-Nation, would admit to a BJ if married and questioned about it!? Shit, I’m ashamed to be associated with defender’s of this prick!
And to the Libby supporter’s, if he does go to the pen, Bubba is in a REAL jail, not this Camp Fed shit he’ll go… Eventually, all these Republican’s will be tried. The only problem is, the Dem’s don’t give a shit enough to try the bastards.
shamus,
I’m wondering if you dems will ever get it through your skulls that clinton lied under oath to protect himself against paula jones’ lawsuit.
Unless you think that using his office for sexual harrassment, encouraging his employees to lie, and using taxpayer’s money to fund his activities is cool, you might want to change your tag-line.
Again, most of us Republicans think that breaking marriage vows is unfortunate. However, it pales by a magnitude of 50 in comparison to obstruction of justice and sexual harassment.
Hope your brain can process this. If not, I’ll type it again using smaller words.
JeffR
[/quote]
The only thing I followed was an associate of the Bush regime was prosecuted! After all the millions spent for a hummer. And I was PURE REPUBLICAN until Nov. 2000, when all shit in my county (Palm Beach, FL) went to hell. And I am not democrat either, they are just rich fuckers too afraid to admit that they are as dirty as the other side. And anyone with half a brain could see what has been happening, how and when it all started! So keep thinking you’re above someone else, you are not. And someone at the beginning of this thread mentioned “if this was an average citizen, the case would never have been tried.” Does the same go for the average citizen who gets caught with even one tab of Oxycontin would spend a few years in jail, but your poster-boy Rush gets forgiven, AFTER HE SAID ON ALL HIS RADIO SHOWS “DRUG ADDICTS SHOULD BE THROWN IN THE SLAMMER!” I love the hypocricy of the political “minds” on here.
BOTTOM LINE: The bastard’s going to jail. So there, jury came to the decision, so cry about something else now. Maybe you could hold off on the whining until 2008, then we’ll see exactly what we did this voting season! God, this has been the worst 7 years in America’s history!
[quote]vroom wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Strange how that was not even a deliberated issue in this case, and is a matter of pure speculation…
Of course it wasn’t in the case. Holy shit, perhaps you can stop playing lawyer for a moment or two?
Everyone knows, including you, that the executive branch decided to do the normal tactic of discrediting a dissenting voice.
Somewhere in all of this, Libby lied, or was given up as a pawn, and the trial and the rest occurred. I’d be surprised if Bush didn’t issue a pardon near the end of his term.[/quote]
Vroom, you were reading my mind! I was thinking this morning, WOW! The republicans bitched and moaned when Clinton pardoned the people he did, but can you imagine the asshole’s who will be pardoned, oh say, July '08?
[quote]shamus wrote:
vroom wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Strange how that was not even a deliberated issue in this case, and is a matter of pure speculation…
Of course it wasn’t in the case. Holy shit, perhaps you can stop playing lawyer for a moment or two?
Everyone knows, including you, that the executive branch decided to do the normal tactic of discrediting a dissenting voice.
Somewhere in all of this, Libby lied, or was given up as a pawn, and the trial and the rest occurred. I’d be surprised if Bush didn’t issue a pardon near the end of his term.
Vroom, you were reading my mind! I was thinking this morning, WOW! The republicans bitched and moaned when Clinton pardoned the people he did, but can you imagine the asshole’s who will be pardoned, oh say, July '08?
[/quote]
July? He’ll do it after the elections.
Read the list of people Clinton pardoned. Google it and have fun.
[quote]derek wrote:
Huh? I don’t care who YOU were talking about. What I posted, and you felt the need to comment on, was about Valerie Plame, by name, and only her.
If you can’t keep up, don’t butt in. OK?
[/quote]
I like it. Chide me for not keeping up when you have no clue what I’m talking about.
You are an idiot.
The outing of Valerie Plame was more dangerous to other CIA operatives than it was to her you fool.
Use your brain for once.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Strange how that was not even a deliberated issue in this case, and is a matter of pure speculation…
vroom wrote:
Of course it wasn’t in the case. Holy shit, perhaps you can stop playing lawyer for a moment or two?
Everyone knows, including you, that the executive branch decided to do the normal tactic of discrediting a dissenting voice.
Somewhere in all of this, Libby lied, or was given up as a pawn, and the trial and the rest occurred. I’d be surprised if Bush didn’t issue a pardon near the end of his term.[/quote]
Ah yes, I forget – it doesn’t have to be part of the topic, pertinent to the point or otherwise related to logical assumptions to be related to your pontifications…
You make it sound as if discrediting a dissenting voice is a criminal act – and sorry, but without some unproved assumptions you’d be incorrect. Those unproved assumptions, by the way, were the basis of the investigation, and were never charged, let alone put up for proof.
Libby lied, as determined by the jury, in his testimony to the grand jury concerning who told him about Valerie Plame.
His crime was the lie under oath.
The rest is pap.
ADDENDUM: Re-read this Washington Post editorial for a nice summary of where we are after the verdict:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
July? He’ll do it after the elections.
Read the list of people Clinton pardoned. Google it and have fun.
[/quote]
I expect the same.
[quote]vroom wrote:
derek wrote:
Huh? I don’t care who YOU were talking about. What I posted, and you felt the need to comment on, was about Valerie Plame, by name, and only her.
If you can’t keep up, don’t butt in. OK?
I like it. Chide me for not keeping up when you have no clue what I’m talking about.
You are an idiot.
The outing of Valerie Plame was more dangerous to other CIA operatives than it was to her you fool.
Use your brain for once.[/quote]
She wasn’t covert. You could look her up in a phone book, for crissakes…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
vroom wrote:
derek wrote:
Huh? I don’t care who YOU were talking about. What I posted, and you felt the need to comment on, was about Valerie Plame, by name, and only her.
If you can’t keep up, don’t butt in. OK?
I like it. Chide me for not keeping up when you have no clue what I’m talking about.
You are an idiot.
The outing of Valerie Plame was more dangerous to other CIA operatives than it was to her you fool.
Use your brain for once.
She wasn’t covert. You could look her up in a phone book, for crissakes…
[/quote]
It was her picking her unqualified husband and her husband writing an OP/Ed that led to her being exposed.
If she was a spy she would fail Spycraft 101 for that alone.
[quote]vroom wrote:
derek wrote:
Huh? I don’t care who YOU were talking about. What I posted, and you felt the need to comment on, was about Valerie Plame, by name, and only her.
If you can’t keep up, don’t butt in. OK?
I like it. Chide me for not keeping up when you have no clue what I’m talking about.
You are an idiot.
The outing of Valerie Plame was more dangerous to other CIA operatives than it was to her you fool.
Use your brain for once.[/quote]
Is it possible for you to make a point without calling me names?
I put you in your place and you lash out like whining little child, grow up for heaven’s sake will you?
99% of this story as reported in the US media was about Libby outing a CIA agent whom they made out to be undercover (covert, get it?).
She was as undercover as you and I .OK well, maybe as undercover as me… you use “Vroom” as an alias, I use my real name.
And that was my point. She was NOT undercover. If you care to explain who it was that was put in danger, and how, and when and by whom, go ahead.
PS, you may want to tone down the insults, you are already disliked enough as it is.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
July? He’ll do it after the elections.
Read the list of people Clinton pardoned. Google it and have fun.
[/quote]
I don’t know if anyone else has heard this tidbit, but apparently Libby represented Mark Rich through the process of his pardon.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Who should be in a jail cell with a 300 lbs lonely con named Bubba?
[/quote]
Dick Cheney?
George Bush?
Or how about the head of the FBI in light of the recent discovery of more illegal suveilance done on honest Americans in the name of “security?”
[quote]ChuckyT wrote:
vroom wrote:
Strange how nobody cares that the executive branch of the government conspired to discredit someone who was doing his job.
It’s very dangerous to have the government going after citizens in this way. Very dangerous. It doesn’t matter whether it is happening on the left or the right of political spectrum.
That’s BIG. Very BIG.
It’s even more important that the government be held to the law than the populace.
Did you even follow the case? I suppose not. Joe Wilson launched a smear attack against the Bush administration, claiming things that he was later forced to recant under oath (read the 9.11 commission’s report on Niger). Why isn’t this brough up more?
It turns out the dumb bastard didn’t even attempt to do his job in Niger, gave his report saying the the Iraqis WERE trying to acquire uranium, then turned around and lied about it to get a feature in the NYT? Then had to change his story again upon subpoena?
Then, we find out that the real leaker was Richard Armitage, a foe of Bush policy from the state department. He admitted this publicly and the prosecutor said he knew about it. OK… So where’s the charges against Armitage? There were none, because… there was no crime!
You have to break a law to be charged with a crime, and leaking this information, while it may have been shady, was not criminal. (If being a scumbag were a crime, there would be no supplement industry, no government, no HIT, and three lawyers.)
So the case is closed. No crimes committed, no charges brought in the leak case. But the media tries to portray this as some kind of anti-Bush verdict. But it wasn’t – it proved nothing of the sort, although that hasn’t stopped the media from running with that idea.
It sounds to me Libby was trying to cover his ass in case he was the leak (he wasn’t, remember, Armitage admitted it). If Libby lied to the investigators for whatever reason he ought to go to jail, just like anyone else who commits the same crime.
This includes lying under oath about fucking your intern – the porking isn’t criminal any more than revealing that Joe Wilson’s wife works a desk at the CIA was. The perjury and obstruction of justice is.
I hope any of you democrats that argued that Bill Clinton ought to be freed since he lied about something that wasn’t a crime and coo about how Libby is going to prison for the same exact thing fucking choke (and recover of course, but only after severe pain and panic). [/quote]
You have problems.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
shamus wrote:
Libby should rot in the slammer! He outed a CIA agent! And lied and still is! Clinton lied about a Blowjob!!! Who, in T-Nation, would admit to a BJ if married and questioned about it!? Shit, I’m ashamed to be associated with defender’s of this prick!
And to the Libby supporter’s, if he does go to the pen, Bubba is in a REAL jail, not this Camp Fed shit he’ll go… Eventually, all these Republican’s will be tried. The only problem is, the Dem’s don’t give a shit enough to try the bastards.
shamus,
I’m wondering if you dems will ever get it through your skulls that clinton lied under oath to protect himself against paula jones’ lawsuit.
Unless you think that using his office for sexual harrassment, encouraging his employees to lie, and using taxpayer’s money to fund his activities is cool, you might want to change your tag-line.
Again, most of us Republicans think that breaking marriage vows is unfortunate. However, it pales by a magnitude of 50 in comparison to obstruction of justice and sexual harassment.
Hope your brain can process this. If not, I’ll type it again using smaller words.
JeffR
[/quote]
Let me first tell you, Shamus is neither Republican nor Democrat.
Let me second ask you; how do you feel about the current administration data mining in order to deceive the public and congress and go into a war with a nation under false pretenses, while loosing sight of the real enemy, Osama, and eventually causing the death’s of 100’s of thousands of people?
I am on the side of what is right, I do not profess to be democrat or republican. I did not like Clinton, but he did a hell of a lot more for me, the little man, than our current administration has done.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
JeffR wrote:
shamus wrote:
Libby should rot in the slammer! He outed a CIA agent! And lied and still is! Clinton lied about a Blowjob!!! Who, in T-Nation, would admit to a BJ if married and questioned about it!? Shit, I’m ashamed to be associated with defender’s of this prick!
And to the Libby supporter’s, if he does go to the pen, Bubba is in a REAL jail, not this Camp Fed shit he’ll go… Eventually, all these Republican’s will be tried. The only problem is, the Dem’s don’t give a shit enough to try the bastards.
shamus,
I’m wondering if you dems will ever get it through your skulls that clinton lied under oath to protect himself against paula jones’ lawsuit.
Unless you think that using his office for sexual harrassment, encouraging his employees to lie, and using taxpayer’s money to fund his activities is cool, you might want to change your tag-line.
Again, most of us Republicans think that breaking marriage vows is unfortunate. However, it pales by a magnitude of 50 in comparison to obstruction of justice and sexual harassment.
Hope your brain can process this. If not, I’ll type it again using smaller words.
JeffR
Let me first tell you, Shamus is neither Republican nor Democrat.[/quote]
I agree.
He does need to look into lithium.
That’s nice. Please provide some proof.
You do know that bin laden made it into Pakistan long before the invasion of Iraq began.
I’ll play along. If Bush had never removed saddam, had he had unlimited combat brigades, how does he get bin laden?
Think through the sticky soverignty issue.
[quote]I am on the side of what is right, I do not profess to be democrat or republican. I did not like Clinton, but he did a hell of a lot more for me, the little man, than our current administration has done.
[/quote]
I’d like to hear what he did for you little guys. I profess I don’t usually pay much attention to you.
Thanks in advance.
JeffR