Let's Talk South Carolina

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So Romney is going to support an amendment defining marriage between a man and woman. There, now he doesn’t appeal to moderates.[/quote]

Don’t worry, he’ll probably change his mind tomorrow (or after the primaries) [/quote]

Like Obama did regarding closing Guantanamo, not continuing the Bush tax cuts, bombing a foreign country (Libya) without congressional approval. There’s a host of other flip-flops that Senator Obama swore he would (or would not) do but President Obama decided wouldn’t be so cool to do

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100083104/the-u-turn-president-barack-obama-top-ten-flip-flops/

I’m far less worried about conservatives not turning out to vote for Romney in a general election than YOU should be about the far left punishing Obama on election day for his many flip-flops.[/quote]

I’ve said before on this forum that I don’t think there will be a lot of turnout for this election on the right or the left. Obama is not as far left as the left thought and not as effective as the middle would like. Conservatives obviously don’t really like any of their choices and keep searching/trying-out candidates. I would guess that you are right that Romney will take the nomination. I think he has a good shot to win.

I am also wondering if there will be a “far left” candidate who will come in. Not as likely, but possible. I think that it is more possible (if Romney does take the nomination) that a 3rd party candidate will spring up for Christian conservatives. Libertarians will run again, I would guess. They also have a chance to pull (both from the right and left, although more from the right I would guess). If RP runs, or is on a ticket with that other guy, I think the libertarian party will take a larger percentage of the vote.

There are a lot of people from all political parties/affiliations feeling disenfranchised now.

42

SNL skit on Santorum… (kinda a poor quality video)

“If the lesbians don’t get me, the Mormon death squads probably will…”

43

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Heck, last night in the debate he proclaimed his social conservative view for all the world to see. He might as well have been Santorum.[/quote]

Lol
I’m watching the daily show with the game on. Stewert said exactly this. (Paraphrase)“Oh my god! Rick Santorum is the man that Mitt Romney is pretending to be!”

44

[quote]Bambi wrote:
This is a question for anyone here. Romney is seen as a ‘moderate’ and not socially conservative by the GOP base (viz: Sloth, who’s put forward his own views eloquently). Would taking someone like Santorum as his VP (almost like McCain did with Palin) be more beneficial or someone more ‘moderate’ like, as Zeb as suggested Rubio, appeals more to independents?
[/quote]

Bambi:

Some thoughts.

  1. As Zeb has shown so clearly; historically, the VP choice ends up being a “numbers game” for Electorial College Votes, depending on where the States appear to be headed (Electorial Vote wise) at the time that the VP Choice has to be made. Even now, The Obama Campaign and the GOP already know…and know CLEARLY the States that they most likely will win; those that they will lose; and those that will be the “swing” or “battleground” States. (Note: Political winds can change; but not a lot at this point).

  2. AS OF JANUARY, 2012; moderates APPEAR to be leaning toward the GOP…but that could change with a) a long, bloody and protracted GOP Primary full of Negative Ads b) an “unacceptable” VP choice and/or c) a strong, “Perot-Like” push from a 3rd Party candidate (maybe; but less likely).

More importantly, Moderates (like many) will be “voting their pocketbooks” in the hope that MAYBE the GOP will have some better answers than the President. The VP choice will not be as important.

  1. GL is right in my feeling…as it stands, this is an election for the GOP to lose.

Mufasa

45

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
SNL skit on Santorum… (kinda a poor quality video)

“If the lesbians don’t get me, the Mormon death squads probably will…”[/quote]

Aww. Wonder if they’ll do anything to advance polyamorous marriages. Nah, not faddish enough yet.

46

GL:

The “problem” for Huntsman is (are):

  1. He is not an ideologue.

From the start of this Campaign he CLEARLY stated that he would never sign a “pledge” that locked him into doing things that may please the “base”; but be terrible for the country.

  1. He is about consensus and compromise. (That served him well as Governor of the most Conservative State in the Union); but is almost a “Death Nail” in National Politics these days.

  2. He is Mormon.

  3. His Economic Vision and Plan is brilliant…but not “flashy” or one that can be boiled down to simple sound bites. (remember “9/9/9”?)

  4. His speaking style won’t leave you “passing out in the Pews”.

I personally think that he is the best Candidate for the Job; but he won’t make it out of the GOP Primary.

Mufasa

47

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
SNL skit on Santorum… (kinda a poor quality video)

“If the lesbians don’t get me, the Mormon death squads probably will…”[/quote]

I saw that it was good :slight_smile: Santorum’s down fall in my opinion is stance on Jesus and Social Security INSURANCE , now they call it Social Security TAX

48

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So Romney is going to support an amendment defining marriage between a man and woman. There, now he doesn’t appeal to moderates.[/quote]

Don’t worry, he’ll probably change his mind tomorrow (or after the primaries) [/quote]

Like Obama did regarding closing Guantanamo, not continuing the Bush tax cuts, bombing a foreign country (Libya) without congressional approval. There’s a host of other flip-flops that Senator Obama swore he would (or would not) do but President Obama decided wouldn’t be so cool to do

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100083104/the-u-turn-president-barack-obama-top-ten-flip-flops/

I’m far less worried about conservatives not turning out to vote for Romney in a general election than YOU should be about the far left punishing Obama on election day for his many flip-flops.[/quote]

I’ve said before on this forum that I don’t think there will be a lot of turnout for this election on the right or the left. Obama is not as far left as the left thought and not as effective as the middle would like. Conservatives obviously don’t really like any of their choices and keep searching/trying-out candidates. I would guess that you are right that Romney will take the nomination. I think he has a good shot to win.

I am also wondering if there will be a “far left” candidate who will come in. Not as likely, but possible. I think that it is more possible (if Romney does take the nomination) that a 3rd party candidate will spring up for Christian conservatives. Libertarians will run again, I would guess. They also have a chance to pull (both from the right and left, although more from the right I would guess). If RP runs, or is on a ticket with that other guy, I think the libertarian party will take a larger percentage of the vote.

There are a lot of people from all political parties/affiliations feeling disenfranchised now.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/[/quote]

As you are no doubt well aware we live in a time where there are deeper divides between political persuasions. Hence, we will never elect a candidate conservative enough to please some and never liberal enough to please others. This will eventually create multiple parties where a President is elected with something like 30% of the vote. This is right around the corner! And if you think things are crazy now—YIKES!

49

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So Romney is going to support an amendment defining marriage between a man and woman. There, now he doesn’t appeal to moderates.[/quote]

Don’t worry, he’ll probably change his mind tomorrow (or after the primaries) [/quote]

Like Obama did regarding closing Guantanamo, not continuing the Bush tax cuts, bombing a foreign country (Libya) without congressional approval. There’s a host of other flip-flops that Senator Obama swore he would (or would not) do but President Obama decided wouldn’t be so cool to do

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100083104/the-u-turn-president-barack-obama-top-ten-flip-flops/

I’m far less worried about conservatives not turning out to vote for Romney in a general election than YOU should be about the far left punishing Obama on election day for his many flip-flops.[/quote]

I’ve said before on this forum that I don’t think there will be a lot of turnout for this election on the right or the left. Obama is not as far left as the left thought and not as effective as the middle would like. Conservatives obviously don’t really like any of their choices and keep searching/trying-out candidates. I would guess that you are right that Romney will take the nomination. I think he has a good shot to win.

I am also wondering if there will be a “far left” candidate who will come in. Not as likely, but possible. I think that it is more possible (if Romney does take the nomination) that a 3rd party candidate will spring up for Christian conservatives. Libertarians will run again, I would guess. They also have a chance to pull (both from the right and left, although more from the right I would guess). If RP runs, or is on a ticket with that other guy, I think the libertarian party will take a larger percentage of the vote.

There are a lot of people from all political parties/affiliations feeling disenfranchised now.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/[/quote]

As you are no doubt well aware we live in a time where there are deeper divides between political persuasions. Hence, we will never elect a candidate conservative enough to please some and never liberal enough to please others. This will eventually create multiple parties where a President is elected with something like 30% of the vote. This is right around the corner! And if you think things are crazy now—YIKES![/quote]

Don’t some countries have run off elections to cover that aspect , Also I have heard ballots with rated choices

50

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Aww. Wonder if they’ll do anything to advance polyamorous marriages. Nah, not faddish enough yet.[/quote]

And this is just the beginning. As I’ve said before, Santorum has no chance of beating Obama should he capture the GOP nomination. By the time the press is through with him people will think that he’s Pat Robertson’s love child.

On that same note I was watching a panel discuss the GOP primary race this morning on CNBC, (I like to see what the other half thinks) and one woman was saying that Rick Santorum, because of his strong Catholic religious beliefs, will eventually try to make condemns illegal. Yes, I know that’s stupid, but for someone who is not as dialed in as you or I propaganda like this becomes the gospel (no pun intended).

51

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Aww. Wonder if they’ll do anything to advance polyamorous marriages. Nah, not faddish enough yet.[/quote]

And this is just the beginning. As I’ve said before, Santorum…

[/quote]

Nuh-uh, not so fast. Last night Romney was forced to air that he’s just as socially conservative as Santorum. Yep, he would support the same amendment as Santorum! Right-wing extremist time! And, of course Romney’s easily defanged over Obama care and man made global warming. Then Obama’s team will even point out that the WSJ editorial report called Romney’s economic plan timid. Then they’ll top it off with millions upon millions of dollars of ads showing Romney doing the flip-flop shuffle. It’s a shame that conservative candidates in the Republican party even have to make their case against such an unprincipled weasel. Obama’s team is going to eat his lunch.

52

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yes, I know that’s stupid, but for someone who is not as dialed in as you or I propaganda like this becomes the gospel (no pun intended).

[/quote]

Let them. I want them to do it. They’ll be doing similar things with Romney’s mormonism. A gallup survey showed that independents and Democrats-yes, Democrats-are the least likely to vote for a mormon.

53

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
GL:

The “problem” for Huntsman is (are):

  1. He is not an ideologue.

From the start of this Campaign he CLEARLY stated that he would never sign a “pledge” that locked him into doing things that may please the “base”; but be terrible for the country.

  1. He is about consensus and compromise. (That served him well as Governor of the most Conservative State in the Union); but is almost a “Death Nail” in National Politics these days.

  2. He is Mormon.

  3. His Economic Vision and Plan is brilliant…but not “flashy” or one that can be boiled down to simple sound bites. (remember “9/9/9”?)

  4. His speaking style won’t leave you “passing out in the Pews”.

I personally think that he is the best Candidate for the Job; but he won’t make it out of the GOP Primary.

Mufasa

[/quote]

Mormonism is not Huntsman’s problem. Things like that only become a problem when you are a rising star and they dig deeper. Nurdism is Huntsman’s main problem. Because of this he has no chance of getting the nomination and he never did. He’s the dweeb we all sat next to in science class that got all excited over a calculation that the teacher wrote on the blackboard. Meanwhile, you were ogling the head cheerleader who sat next to you with her legs uncrossed in a very unladylike position. Guys like Huntsman were hot for a deeper understanding of the periodic table of elements. This came out in last nights debate when he started speaking Mandarin Chinese. I blurted out to the others in the room, “are you kidding me? How out of touch is this guy?” But that wasn’t enough, when each candidate was asked what he’d be doing if he were not at the debate each remarked about watching the football game (Gingrich confused football with basketball but hey good attempt at being normal). Not our boy Huntsman, he wanted to go deeper, “I’d probably be communicating with my two sons who are in the military.” That was when my own son took the liberty of hollering out a comment, “what a tool that guy is.” Uh huh…that about sums it up. As I said months ago Huntsman is not worth talking about. And from this point on I won’t mention him again unless pushed :wink:

He’s a really smart guy who is out of touch with the American people and has never, and will never connect.

54

Loved this smackdown.

55

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Aww. Wonder if they’ll do anything to advance polyamorous marriages. Nah, not faddish enough yet.[/quote]

And this is just the beginning. As I’ve said before, Santorum…

[/quote]

Nuh-uh, not so fast. Last night Romney was forced to air that he’s just as socially conservative as Santorum. Yep, he would support the same amendment as Santorum! Right-wing extremist time! And, of course Romney’s easily defanged over Obama care and man made global warming. Then Obama’s team will even point out that the WSJ editorial report called Romney’s economic plan timid. Then they’ll top it off with millions upon millions of dollars of ads showing Romney doing the flip-flop shuffle. It’s a shame that conservative candidates in the Republican party even have to make their case against such an unprincipled weasel. Obama’s team is going to eat his lunch.[/quote]

Hey at least you’re consistent huh? But if you change your mind and support Romeny I will not call that a flip-flop :slight_smile:

As you know a candidate in the republican party swings right during the primary and then back toward the center during the general election. Just as a smart democrat swings left during their primary and then back to the middle for the general. Nothing new here, Romney is playing the game rather well in fact.

As for flip-flopping, I would immediately put Obama on the defense (see top 10 Obama flip-flops that I posted earlier) by airing the many, many flip-flops that he has made. From extending the Bush tax cuts to leaving Guantanamo open. Obama has changed his mind on a myriad of issues. And this will cause his left wing support to be mushy at best and I’m betting many of them will stay home on election day. Matt Damon is really ticked I hear :slight_smile:

It will be a hard fought campaign with Romney giving as good as he gets. What I fear most is not what Obama’s people will do, that can be countered, it’s what the many liberal media outlets will do. As my wise old Uncle once said “You can never win an argument with someone who buys ink by the barrel.”

56

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yes, I know that’s stupid, but for someone who is not as dialed in as you or I propaganda like this becomes the gospel (no pun intended).

[/quote]

Let them. I want them to do it. They’ll be doing similar things with Romney’s mormonism. A gallup survey showed that independents and Democrats-yes, Democrats-are the least likely to vote for a mormon. [/quote]

I read that and at this date it means nothing, especially the way the question was asked. As for wanting the press to lie about what you’d do, no one wants that. Santorum would be about as popular as Sarah Palin by the time November rolled around. Know this, the press HATES conservatives with a passion!

57

Mufasa and Gambit, let’s consider one point that really demonstrates just how big of a mess the GoP is in. The frontrunner right now? Yeah, didn’t support the Contract with America, calling it a ‘mistake’ in a 1994 debate.

58

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Hey at least you’re consistent huh? But if you change your mind and support Romeny I will not call that a flip-flop :slight_smile:

[/quote]

So, as a conservative, you’d help the man you know is lying his ass off to your fellow conservatives clinch the nomination?

59

That’s exactly why Zeb doesn’t panic even though Romney has taken the same exact social-policy positions as Santorum. Because he knows, and he knows the moderate and progressive wing knows, Romney is simply pulling one over on those redneck, hillbilly, dimwitted conservatives. Wink-Wink, psst. Don’t worry progressives, he’s just saying what the rubes need to hear. Doesn’t believe a bit of it. He’ll throw all of that out right after the primary, wink-wink.

Edit: Conservatives, this is what the GoP thinks of you. Abandon ship.

60

I’ve said it in an earlier thread, Zeb:

A political pundit said the following:

“…At this point, America “needs” George Marshall…but it “wants” George Patton…”

Mufasa