[quote]ZEB wrote:
Who cares if your neigbor screws his dog? Right? It doesn’t effect you so what’s the difference?
It’s more about the type of society that you want to live in. And when a product is legalized, legitimized and advertised more people use it. And as we saw with alcohol and the 100,000 related deaths per year, there are consequences to promoting this type of activity.
But if you like getting high I understand why you would want it legal. It is fun right? And you don’t like looking over your shoulder do you?
I understand.[/quote]
If you can’t see the difference between screwing a dog and smoking weed then you have major issues to work through.
I don’t get high personally but it doesn’t matter to me if others do because it is none of my business. Technically it’s not my business if they have sex with animals either. Why do you want to control the lives of others?
WTF? Ah yes, the old “if I think this is bad, everything else I think is bad is just like it”.[/quote]
The poster said [quote]Who cares if your neighbor gets high? Who cares if it’s terrible for them or great for them?[/quote]
That implies the assumption that whatever does not immediately effect you will NEVER effect you. And as thinking adults know that is a short term recipe for disaster.
But you do know about it…now what?
I can always count on you to come up with really good ideas (eye roll)
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Who cares if your neigbor screws his dog? Right? It doesn’t effect you so what’s the difference?
It’s more about the type of society that you want to live in. And when a product is legalized, legitimized and advertised more people use it. And as we saw with alcohol and the 100,000 related deaths per year, there are consequences to promoting this type of activity.
But if you like getting high I understand why you would want it legal. It is fun right? And you don’t like looking over your shoulder do you?
I understand
If you can’t see the difference between screwing a dog and smoking weed then you have major issues to work through.[/quote]
And you have major problems if you cannot understand someone using an example without you turning it into a cheap straw man argument. Try really hard to reach up and be better than the typical Internet poster.
I’ll restate for you. You claim you don’t care what someone else does as long as it does not effect you…THUS my pooch example.
Get it now?
There you go!
You don’t screw your dog personally and it doesn’t matter to you if others do because it’s none of your business.
Right?
And if you don’t like that example fill in any other one. You don’t beat your wife/GF and you don’t care if your neighbor does as it does not effect you.
RIGHT?
Nothing really effects you unless it immediately effects you.
RIGHT?
[quote]Technically it’s not my business if they have sex with animals either. Why do you want to control the lives of others?
james
[/quote]
I don’t Jimbo, I just want to make sure that a drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised does not do what alcohol has done by claiming about 100,000 lives per year. But then to understand this you would have to be quite a bit less simplistic.
[quote]csulli wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m just looking for a logical argument as to why pot should be legal. Thus far I have not read one.
Do you seriously think that making everything illegal and then systematically legalizing things based on arguments as to why they need to not be illegal is better than having everything be free and legal and systematically identifying things which need to be illegal?[/quote]
Who said that? Not me. Now why don’t you explain to me in detail why marijuana SPECIFICALLY should be legal. But you won’t because you really don’t know why you just sort a kinda feel like it should because you use it and well it makes you feel good. Nice argument you have there.
The dumbest thing I’ve ever read anywhere on this topic–Congrats kid!
So, you have no argument then.
But where then do you separate your choice of recreational drug from someone else’s? Is there ever a “good enough” reason to make your favorite recreational drug illegal? Nooooo of course not.
How do you feel about “mild mannered” jewel thieves, or bicycle thieves going to jail and coming out “100x” worse than they went in? Do they bother you as well?[/quote]
Lol, I can tell I went way over your head. Why don’t you just keep asking people to answer questions they have already answered but that you are too stupid to understand
And btw I don’t even smoke pot lol. You may want to rethink like half the things you said in your reply based on that.
Also I am very curious why you are so afraid of marijuana. Is it seriously because of one study that you believe shows a negative impact on IQ when used in the teenage years? Do you think they controlled for enough variables? What IQ test(s) did they use? Do you believe in the efficacy of IQ tests? Do you believe an undisclosed minority of 50 New Zealand teenagers is a big enough sample size? Do you think there were IQ variations in non smokers even though they didn’t bother mentioning it? There are a million other things I would like to know.
I am asking, because I have seen so many other studies showing marijuana to be completely harmless even in consistently high doses over years. You really can’t tell much without seeing the actual study itself. The media is basically completely worthless and will present whatever garbage they think will get people interested.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Also I am very curious why you are so afraid of marijuana. Is it seriously because of one study that you believe shows a negative impact on IQ when used in the teenage years? Do you think they controlled for enough variables? What IQ test(s) did they use? Do you believe in the efficacy of IQ tests? Do you believe an undisclosed minority of 50 New Zealand teenagers is a big enough sample size? Do you think there were IQ variations in non smokers even thou they didn’t bother mentioning it? There are a million other things I would like to know.
I am asking, because I have seen so many other studies showing marijuana to be completely harmless even in consistently high doses over years. You really can’t tell much without seeing the actual study itself. The media is basically completely worthless and will present whatever garbage they think will get people interested.[/quote]
He’s afraid because he’s incapable of forming his own opinions.
I don’t get high personally but it doesn’t matter to me if others do because it is none of my business.
[/quote]
I’d like to butt in and say something if you don’t mind. The civil society is not only your business but your duty to preserve and contribute towards. Marijuana use, especially by very young people is not in the interests of a civil society. That’s my contention. Can you show how it will improve or help maintain the civil society? Will more people go to church? Will they drive and operate heavy machinery in a safer manner? Will more people gain employment from smoking marijuana? Will they work harder? Will they develop improvements in their short-term memory? Will their motivation levels increase? Why do I want to support this notion of legalisation? You’ve got to sell me on your idea. Think of me as the food and drug administration. What’s your pitch?
Well again, yes it is. Even more so. Beastiality is a depraved act that serial killers often engage in as they develop their psychosis. It’s not in the interests of the civil society to ignore this sort of behaviour. Legislation needs to be in place to charge deviants engaged in these acts and get them the psychological treatment and confinement that they and the rest of society needs.
It’s a representative republic. Right now most the people want marijuana and beastiality to remain illegal. So the same question applies to you: why do you want to control the lives of others?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Can you show how it will improve or help maintain the civil society? Will more people go to church? Will they drive and operate heavy machinery in a safer manner? Will more people gain employment from smoking marijuana? Will they work harder? Will they develop improvements in their short-term memory? Will their motivation levels increase? Why do I want to support this notion of legalisation? You’ve got to sell me on your idea. Think of me as the food and drug administration. What’s your pitch?[/quote]
No no no no no, this is not how it works!
Let’s ask all those questions about other things shall we? Ice cream, McDonalds, soda, food is easy to do, you could argue things like racing and bungee jumping and diving with sharks and probably a million others.
You don’t make things illegal because they aren’t “good enough” you make them illegal because they are bad. Marijuana isn’t bad enough to be illegal, that’s the issue. By your logic the only things that would be legal would be vegetables and penicillin.
Again, based on the research I have seen, there are ZERO long term health effects from marijuana use be they positive (which some are btw) or negative.
Also, has anyone else noticed throughout this entire thread ZEB seems to fancy himself as a very smart person, and yet he leads, includes, or sometimes only exclusively uses ad hominem in his responses?
If you like talking about correlations, ad hominem is correlated quite notably with ignorance on a topic. Smart people are able to address the issues. Ad hominem is used by people who have run out of ideas and aren’t smart enough to keep up.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Also, has anyone else noticed throughout this entire thread ZEB seems to fancy himself as a very smart person, and yet he leads, includes, or sometimes only exclusively uses ad hominem in his responses?[/quote]
I do not you stupid bastard! Oops…dang…sorry WOW were you ever right!
Jumping in late in the game as you’ve done and not reading the entire thread puts you at a disadvantage. Oh…wait was probably overly harsh for you huh? Hmm…sorry it had to be said, you going to be okay? Go back to about page 2 and read my many lengthy arguments. If you don’t like them you can try to refute them one by one. If you do a good enough job I will actually respond to you. And I won’t even call you an inexperienced ignorant bastard. Nope
I will now await for your sincere heartfelt intelligent reply. Because that’s the kind of person that I know you are. Oh wait…was that an attack? Am I now being sarcastic? No, I mean it. When Mommy popped you out of her womb you were special right from the beginning and the whole world knows it!
…See I just can’t help it. I always get a bit testy when kids like you jump in at the end of a thread without actually having read the full thread and all of the arguments.
Now run along junior, go do your homework and next time I’ll take you seriously…(Oops there I go again).
[quote]csulli wrote:
Also, has anyone else noticed throughout this entire thread ZEB seems to fancy himself as a very smart person, and yet he leads, includes, or sometimes only exclusively uses ad hominem in his responses?[/quote]
I do not you stupid bastard! Oops…dang…sorry WOW were you ever right!
Jumping in late in the game as you’ve done and not reading the entire thread puts you at a disadvantage. Oh…wait was probably overly harsh for you huh? Hmm…sorry it had to be said, you going to be okay? Go back to about page 2 and read my many lengthy arguments. If you don’t like them you can try to refute them one by one. If you do a good enough job I will actually respond to you. And I won’t even call you an inexperienced ignorant bastard. Nope
I will now await for your sincere heartfelt intelligent reply. Because that’s the kind of person that I know you are. Oh wait…was that an attack? Am I now being sarcastic? No, I mean it. When Mommy popped you out of her womb you were special right from the beginning and the whole world knows it!
…See I just can’t help it. I always get a bit testy when kids like you jump in at the end of a thread without actually having read the full thread and all of the arguments.
Now run along junior, go do your homework and next time I’ll take you seriously…(Oops there I go again).
[/quote]
LOL. I read the entire thread before making a single reply. I’m not sure why you would assume otherwise. You assume I didn’t read the thread, you assume I smoke pot, you assume much, but know little. I think my work is done here. You did a remarkable job of making yourself look like an ignorant ass.
LOL. I read the entire thread before making a single reply.[/quote]
Then you should have actually responded to my many points. Instead YOU chose to make it personal. That says something about you doesn’t it. You do not seek to debate the point you simple want to do a drive by posting. Well…you failed junior!
Because you chose to respond to ME and not what I have stated. Again…it’s all personal to YOU as thus far you’ve said NOTHING of substance on the topic at hand. Whereas,I have written volumes, whether you agree with my position or not. And it looks like we’ll never know as you do not have the gravitas to actually debate the topic.
You are assuming that I think you smoke pot as I did not state that.
Said the man who didn’t show up for work.
Said the man who “says” he read the thread yet could not debate one single issue based upon what was written. Pretend much?
While I disagree with many who support legalization I do respect most of them (of all ages) for their efforts in actually debating the point. What little dirt bags like you do is clutter up the place. If you show as much knowledge on other topics as you have this one your stay on PWI will be short indeed.
The vast majority of what you wrote dealt with either alcohol, driving, or both. You seem to have WAY more issue with alcohol and irresponsible drivers than with marijuana itself. I would agree.
The thing is, dangerous driving is largely out of our control. The law can do its best, but when you get on the road you are taking your life into your own hands. Forget marijuana for a second, people drive while texting, surfing the web, watching videos, talking on the phone, DRUNK, and don’t forget sleepy (which is just as dangerous if not more so than anything else).
Do you believe the legalization of marijuana would result in more traffic accidents? I don’t. The people stupid enough to drive high are the same ones stupid enough to drive drunk and text and all that other shit.
The only way to control people driving while impaired would be to outlaw stupidity.
Something I’m not sure you’ve tried is actually thinking about the thread title. Legalizing weed. Not justifying the morality of weed. The law is the law and it is separate from your own personal code of ethics. The fact of the matter is that cigarettes and alcohol are both legal and both far more damaging than marijuana. Things like precedent and guidelines exist for a reason. I think that you either have to believe that marijuana should be legalized, or that alcohol and tobacco should be illegal. To have it both ways is hypocrisy.
ZEB, you think marijuana should be illegal. Do you think alcohol and tobacco should be as well?
Here are some guidelines from the DEA (alcohol and tobacco meet these obviously, but marijuana mysteriously does not)
(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
For point A, marijuana is actually the least potentially abused substance between the three in question.
For point B, well everyone knows that’s false already.
So can we prove that there are more safety issues for marijuana than alcohol or tobacco? If not, then we need to make alcohol and tobacco illegal.
Listen, I know you hate the “alcohol is legal so marijuana should be too” argument, but it exists for a reason. Logically, I agree that it is an incredibly stupid argument. I believe things should stand on their own merit, and one bad thing being okay doesn’t justify another.
BUT, like I said, it doesn’t matter what I believe, that’s the way the law works. Legally, the system is (ideally) designed to be devoid of hypocrisy. If one thing is legal and an equivalently dangerous thing is illegal, that is an imbalance that should not legally exist in our government despite the fact that it may be acceptable in your own personal opinion.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
You are assuming that I think you smoke pot as I did not state that. [/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Do you seriously think that making everything illegal and then systematically legalizing things based on arguments as to why they need to not be illegal is better than having everything be free and legal and systematically identifying things which need to be illegal?[/quote]
Who said that? Not me. Now why don’t you explain to me in detail why marijuana SPECIFICALLY should be legal. But you won’t because you really don’t know why you just sort a kinda feel like it should because you use it and well it makes you feel good.[/quote]
There it is.
And also, you assume I didn’t show up for work. I am at work right now.
LOL. I read the entire thread before making a single reply.[/quote]
Then you should have actually responded to my many points. Instead YOU chose to make it personal. That says something about you doesn’t it. You do not seek to debate the point you simple want to do a drive by posting. Well…you failed junior!
Because you chose to respond to ME and not what I have stated. Again…it’s all personal to YOU as thus far you’ve said NOTHING of substance on the topic at hand. Whereas,I have written volumes, whether you agree with my position or not. And it looks like we’ll never know as you do not have the gravitas to actually debate the topic.
[/quote]
I responded to your IQ study. And this pretty clearly isn’t a “drive by”. Pretty much every other study you linked was about alcohol or drunk driving or simply describing the intoxication effect marijuana has. That was the only one I noticed that tried to say anything about actual permanent damage caused by marijuana.
I have responded to specific things you posted whether you choose to believe so or not.
[quote]csulli wrote:
ZEB, I can attempt to respond to some specifics.[/quote]
Glad to see that you are taking on the topic head on instead of that other stuff you were doing.
Wrong, I wrote a great deal on actual consumption going up. If you missed that I suggest you go back to the beginning of the thread and read up.
I’m funny like that when driving down the highway I like to feel that someone is not going to cross the lines and hit me head on because they are drunk, or stoned.
Not true, when you legalize, legitimize and advertise a substance usage goes up. P E R I O D! And if you disagree with that concept you do not understand capitalism.
I agree, so why should we increase the risks by definitely increasing the number of marijuana users? Makes no sense.
The more users that you have the more traffic accidents and fatalities that you will have. There is no question about that. It just becomes a matter of math.
Agreed stupidity is a horrible thing especially when that stupid person is behind the wheel of a car. Now imagine that stupid person driving WHITE HIGH! Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse…it does.
You don’t seem to understand that when you legalize a drug you are telling everyone (future generations included) that there is nothing wrong with consuming this drug. You do legitimize it when you legalize it. And when you advertise it the game is lost! Just as what happened when alcohol was legalized. And as I’ve stated when alcohol became legal highway deaths, and deaths related to alcohol increased up to the point where about 1000,000 people die each year because of that one substance. If you are trying to tell me that something similar to this will not happen you are wrong history is on my side in this argument.
That’s the old “alcohol and cigarettes are bad for you too so why not make one more bad thing legal” argument. It has no legs. I’ve shot that argument down at least 12 times on this thread alone. “Heeeeey let’s see how many people pot can kill if legalized I bet it will be a little less”
That argument is illogical and as you can see has not worked yet as pot remains illegal!
[quote]Things like precedent and guidelines exist for a reason. I think that you either have to believe that marijuana should be legalized, or that alcohol and tobacco should be illegal. To have it both ways is hypocrisy.
ZEB, you think marijuana should be illegal. Do you think alcohol and tobacco should be as well?[/quote]
There you go again! You cannot make a logical argument for making pot legal by claiming that two other substances that kill people are also legal. Here’s what you need to do; you need to make an argument, as some of the others have that creates the illusion that somehow pot is actually good for you and has few draw backs health, or safety wise.
I wouldn’t care either way. But again that is not the argument is it?
There you go, that was a very smart statement on your part and I agree with it 100%!
There is there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around in and out of the criminal justice system. Starting from a cop who pulls over a person for speeding, discovers that it’s a friend of his and allows him to continue on without giving him a ticket. Yet, when you speed by this same officer he pulls you over and hands you a speeding ticket.
I agree alcohol and cigarettes are not bad for your health. There is some science which now states that two drinks per day can actually help your health. But over all I think they are both killers for many reasons. But…SO IS POT! The fact that young males (not you) may enjoy pot and want it to be legalized does not change this fact! Furthermore, the more users there are the more health and cost related problems that will occur.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
You are assuming that I think you smoke pot as I did not state that. [/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Do you seriously think that making everything illegal and then systematically legalizing things based on arguments as to why they need to not be illegal is better than having everything be free and legal and systematically identifying things which need to be illegal?[/quote]
Who said that? Not me. Now why don’t you explain to me in detail why marijuana SPECIFICALLY should be legal. But you won’t because you really don’t know why you just sort a kinda feel like it should because you use it and well it makes you feel good.[/quote]
There it is.
And also, you assume I didn’t show up for work. I am at work right now.[/quote]
That comment was in response to your comment [quote]my work is done here[/quote]
By the way if you’re at work you are screwing over your employer something awful. Now get back to work I assure of one thing the chances of you getting fired are far greater than pot being legalized because of anything that you write on T Nation.
LOL no seriously I’d hate to see you get in trouble with your boss. This conversation is not all that important.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Still laughing at rappers going from smoking blunts to screwing dogs in videos. What will the back up dancers look like?[/quote]
One would think that you would understand what a metaphor is. But you’ve surprised me in the past so …
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Still laughing at rappers going from smoking blunts to screwing dogs in videos. What will the back up dancers look like?[/quote]
One would think that you would understand what a metaphor is. But you’ve surprised me in the past so …[/quote]
What surprises me is the level of obstinate rambling from you that is based on nothing but a poorly supported opinion no doubt based on decades of drug war propaganda.
Simply put, how is fucking dogs a metaphore for one of the most popular and widely used substances that we have labeled a ‘drug’ (even “not inhaled” by past presidents) in this world’s history?
I don’t want to know what my neighbor is doing in the privacy of his own home unless it will directly harm me or my family…like a running meth lab. Someone lighting a bong isn’t hurting you or anyone else. It isn’t even hurting them enough to worry about it.
Your ideas seem to be parented by ideas that my government should decide for me what I do or ingest and they should base it on the opinion of old men who have no medical backgrounds but very strong political opinions.
