[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
I always find it quite ironic how a legalization which would bring MORE control of a substance rather than the almost zero control there is now, plus revenues into public coffers, is always dismissed as ‘capitulation’ by certain quarters under the guise of how it would lead to a ‘boom’ in usage. And it always comes from a population that has almost zero clue about realities on the ground, so to speak. As in the actual ease of procuring…
You make a good point, you better tell Proctor and Gamble that the 1 billion dollars that they spent in marketing their products last year was a waste. According to your logic the best way to cause more consumers to consume more of their products is to convince the government to make them all illegal!
LOL you guys come up with some very funny stuff.
Nice try. But feel free to argue against something I did actually write…cos that’s some weak sauce you’re punting right there.
Thanks for making my point for me LOL.[/quote]
Legalization (as you say) will cause MORE drugs to be sold. The revenue that you think you would raise would all be spent on rehab, health and other societal problems.
More drugs sold will wreak more financial and legal pain for everyone.
“Regualtion” will not cure this problem, it will only make it worse.
Because…as I said a substance that is legitimized, advertised and easier to obtain will be consumed more.
You can walk around believing whatever you like. But, when you actually put it down in writing you cannot expect people who have actually dealt with these matters to buy into your flimsy thinking. Now go back in the thread and read the many links that I’ve posted from those who have studied this problem far longer than you or I. They seem to agree with me on this topic. But if you actually have some unique way of looking at it (I have not seen it yet) I’ve love to read it. Until then you’re just another tiny voice in the crowd that wants legalization yet has no substantive argument to back it up!
[/quote]
Feel free to tell me if it’s more difficult to get legal controlled substances (xanax,oxy other opiates etc) AND if the prices of those legal yet controlled substances are CHEAPER on the street than in legal outlets with a prescription. I’ll wait.
Since them being legal and available obviously MUST make them cheaper on street and everything. And easier to get.
The only one that needs to do some more thinking here is you. I’m not interested in trying to change your mind in the least.
Also feel free to keep believing whatever you want, because that approach has really come up trumps till now.
Feel free to tell me if it’s more difficult to get legal controlled substances (xanax,oxy other opiates etc) AND if the prices of those legal yet controlled substances are CHEAPER on the street than in legal outlets with a prescription. I’ll wait.[/quote]
Are you suggesting that pot only be sold by prescription? If you are not then your example is irrelevant.
[quote]Since them being legal and available obviously MUST make them cheaper on street and everything. And easier to get.
The only one that needs to do some more thinking here is you. I’m not interested in trying to change your mind in the least.
Also feel free to keep believing whatever you want, because that approach has really come up trumps till now.[/quote]
Any drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised will be cheaper to purchase and consumed by more people.
You’re usually a pretty smart guy so I doubt there isn’t anything that I just wrote that you don’t understand. If you disagree with it please let me know and be precise.
Feel free to tell me if it’s more difficult to get legal controlled substances (xanax,oxy other opiates etc) AND if the prices of those legal yet controlled substances are CHEAPER on the street than in legal outlets with a prescription. I’ll wait.[/quote]
Are you suggesting that pot only be sold by prescription? If you are not then your example is irrelevant.
[quote]Since them being legal and available obviously MUST make them cheaper on street and everything. And easier to get.
The only one that needs to do some more thinking here is you. I’m not interested in trying to change your mind in the least.
Also feel free to keep believing whatever you want, because that approach has really come up trumps till now.[/quote]
Any drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised will be cheaper to purchase and consumed by more people.
You’re usually a pretty smart guy so I doubt there isn’t anything that I just wrote that you don’t understand. If you disagree with it please let me know and be precise.
[/quote]
Once again, I ask you :On the street, where recreational drugs are bought, is the price of legal, controlled, legitimate drugs [when bought for recreational purposes] less or more than it is in a pharmacy?
And since they meet all the criteria you describe, why are they not cheaper on the street? Because of the control systems in place would be my opinion. Please point out to me if I’ve missed a more viable reason.
In this particular argument, that position you have highlited in bold above just has no traction.
Feel free to tell me if it’s more difficult to get legal controlled substances (xanax,oxy other opiates etc) AND if the prices of those legal yet controlled substances are CHEAPER on the street than in legal outlets with a prescription. I’ll wait.[/quote]
Are you suggesting that pot only be sold by prescription? If you are not then your example is irrelevant.
[quote]Since them being legal and available obviously MUST make them cheaper on street and everything. And easier to get.
The only one that needs to do some more thinking here is you. I’m not interested in trying to change your mind in the least.
Also feel free to keep believing whatever you want, because that approach has really come up trumps till now.[/quote]
Any drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised will be cheaper to purchase and consumed by more people.
You’re usually a pretty smart guy so I doubt there isn’t anything that I just wrote that you don’t understand. If you disagree with it please let me know and be precise.
[/quote]
I have mentioned it before but, in California where it is legalized I know many who carry a Medical Marijuana card but, still buy from their local connections. Unless there is a tried and true strain they enjoy from a dispensary they choose to buy on the street because it is a lot cheaper. People will always sell illegally to make money and that is one of the many reasons that dispensaries have higher prices… to prevent resell.
Once again, I ask you :On the street, where recreational drugs are bought, is the price of legal, controlled, legitimate drugs [when bought for recreational purposes] less or more than it is in a pharmacy?
And since they meet all the criteria you describe, why are they not cheaper on the street? Because of the control systems in place would be my opinion. Please point out to me if I’ve missed a more viable reason.
In this particular argument, that position you have highlited in bold above just has no traction. [/quote]
Sorry, but I feel that you are not comparing apples to apples. Once again, you seem to be taking a position that pot should be legal by prescription only. If not why would be mentioning prescription drugs? Pot is mostly a recreational drug not unlike alcohol in that regard.
Otherwise, my point still holds and by the way it IS the reason why we have not and will not legalize pot in the US.
That is: Any drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised will be cheaper to purchase and consumed by more people.
In fact, we already have an exceptional example of this in alcohol. A non prescription drug which has been legalized, legitimized, advertised and now far more people use it.
Once again, I ask you :On the street, where recreational drugs are bought, is the price of legal, controlled, legitimate drugs [when bought for recreational purposes] less or more than it is in a pharmacy?
And since they meet all the criteria you describe, why are they not cheaper on the street? Because of the control systems in place would be my opinion. Please point out to me if I’ve missed a more viable reason.
In this particular argument, that position you have highlited in bold above just has no traction. [/quote]
Sorry, but I feel that you are not comparing apples to apples. Once again, you seem to be taking a position that pot should be legal by prescription only. If not why would be mentioning prescription drugs? Pot is mostly a recreational drug not unlike alcohol in that regard.
Otherwise, my point still holds and by the way it IS the reason why we have not and will not legalize pot in the US.
That is: Any drug which is legalized, legitimized and advertised will be cheaper to purchase and consumed by more people.
In fact, we already have an exceptional example of this in alcohol. A non prescription drug which has been legalized, legitimized, advertised and now far more people use it.
Capitalism is not all that hard to understand.
[/quote]
I understand capitalism just fine. Are you sure you do though? You were just given an example a couple of posts up that it isn’t quite happening that way in California. Why would you say that is? Legalization would add layers of cost to a product that now has very few. And which is already a cheap product to start off with, even illegally.
Let me get this clear: are you saying that if it’s legalized and controlled, the price will plummet and everyone will be smoking weed?
I’m sure it won’t be legalized in the US, but I’m pretty sure the reason you give isn’t why. Alcohol, as a case in point [since you brought it up] is a recreational drug that brings in revenue and is out of the hands of criminals BECAUSE it is legal. When it was illegal during prohibition, who profited? Alcohol and other ‘sin’ products are sources of revenue for govts worldwide.
As far as weed goes, prescription is not the only mode of control I would see as worthwhile. Age and amount quotas [daily, monthly, whatever] are also controls I would have no issue with.
Ps: I am not a smoker of ye olde ganja. I just think our current systems are a waste of resources and a channeling of money to criminal cartels.
Edit: And I mention the prescription drugs at street level because their use as recreational substances is a fact of life. And they are far more expensive OUT of the system than IN the system. Why is that? Still no answer there from you. And we both know why you’re not answering…
"In conclusion, trends in cannabis use in the Netherlands are rather similar to those in other European countries, and Dutch figures on cannabis use are not out of line with those from countries that did not decriminalise cannabis. The U.S. figures consistently appear to be higher than those in the Netherlands. Over time prevalence of cannabis use show a wave-like trend in many countries, including the Netherlands. This supports Reuband?s earlier conclusion that trends cannabis use evolve rather independently from drug policy, and that countries with a ?liberal? cannabis policy do not have higher or lower rates than countries with a more repressive policy. [Reuband, 1995].
Consequently, it is unlikely that decriminalisation of cannabis will cause an increase in cannabis use."
I have no doubt you’ll discard the conclusion out of hand…
The prevalence rates for adolescent alcohol use for the three countries are consistent with the contention that strict policies may have the intended effect of limiting prevalence. However, the data provide no evidence that strict marijuana laws in the United States provide protective effects compared to the similarly restrictive but less vigorously enforced laws in place in Canada, and the regulated access approach in the Netherlands. Given the cross-sectional nature of the research, the data provide no evidence of causal association between national policies and adolescent substance use, suggesting the need for prospective policy evaluations. Moreover, factors that were not measured in this study, such as national culture and social norms, may partially explain both policy and prevalence. The data do provide evidence for the hypothesis that strict policies may be more effective in deterring adolescent alcohol use than adolescent marijuana use. The question remains for policy makers in each country to determine the extent to which policies regarding adolescent substance use maximize prevention benefits while minimizing negative social consequences."
Here’s some light reading for ya, ZEB. I’ll post more for you tomorrow if you’d like.
One study has been published in the U.S., in the journal Clinical EEG and neuroscience: official journal of the EEG and Clinical Neuroscience Society (ENCS), and shows that alcohol has a stronger effect on teen brain development than marijuana. The other is a study published in the Lancet, offering the results of substance classification by a number of U.K. professionals, purporting that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana to individuals and to society.
[i]Alcohol consumption causes far greater harms to the individual user and to society than does the use of cannabis, according to a new review published online in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, the journal of the British Association of Psychopharmacology.
Investigators at the Imperial College of London assessed â??the relative physical, psychological, and social harms of cannabis and alcohol.â?? Authors reported that cannabis inhalation, particularly long-term, contributes to some potential adverse health effects, including harms to the lungs, circulatory system, as well as the exacerbation of certain mental health risks. By contrast, authors described alcohol as â?? a toxic substanceâ?? that is responsible for nearly five percent â??of the total global disease burden.â??[/i]
[i]Study Finds Alcohol and Tobacco More Harmful than Marijuana, LSD, or Ecstasy (Revisited)
The good news for the UKâ??s drug classification system is that the placement of marijuana in Class C appears appropriate. This is in line with the results of another recent study that found that smoking marijuana isnâ??t as dangerous as once thought. Things arenâ??t looking so good back in the US, though, where marijuana is still a Schedule I drug, despite potential medical uses. So, even though the UKâ??s system isnâ??t perfect, itâ??s beats what we have in the US, where the war on drugs continues to spin out of control.[/i]
Despite the fact that marijuana’s effects are less harmful than those of most other drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, it is the most common drug that people are arrested for possessing. U.S. marijuana policy is unique among American criminal laws in being enforced so widely and harshly, yet deemed unnecessary by such a substantial portion of the population.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
Not if you think that there would be less people smoking pot if pot were legalized, legitimized and advertised. We only need to look at alcohol as a prime example of that. How many people were killed on the roads and highways over the past 10 years through alcohol related traffic fatalities? about 340,000!
How many total people die each year in some way because of alcohol? 100,000!
Why?
Because alcohol was legalized, legitimized and advertised. When this happens MORE people consume the product and hence more pain to society. If pot were legalized in this manner the costs that you say are wasted in enforcing this drug law would pale in the face of the costs due to health problems, traffic fatalities and other societal pain spread by this drug being legalized, legitimized and advertised.
If you don’t understand that you shouldn’t even be involved in this discussion.
And if you had follwed the thread from its beginning you would have read Maximus post regarding the problems that California is having regarding their treatment of marijuana. Scroll back and read what a resident of California has to say about pot legalization. Seems you missed that one. Either way it’s not a pretty picture…SURPRISE!
Where did I say that “everyone would be smoking weed”? Poor use of a straw man argument…very poor use. But there is absolutely no question that consumption would rise. I can see that you are no student of history (or business). You think that the billions of dollars spent on advertising products in the market place is wasted money? Do you think that competition which always brings prices down is somehow not going to happen with this one product?
Fortunately, history has given us a very similar example of what you want to do. Take a check on what happened after prohibition.
1-The quality of the alcohol went up.
2- Ability to obtain the product went up.
3- Prices of said product came down as competition for the consumers dollar went up.
4-Many very nasty consequences to society went up.
Those are indisputable facts that you should consider before posting again.
Pot, is a judgement altering drug, or didn’t you read the many links that I posted earlier in the debate? No I guess you didn’t.
Here is just one:
“Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that, in chronic users, marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.”
NICE! We definitely need more of this especially with drivers.
“According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, in 2009, 16.7 million Americans aged 12 or older used marijuana at least once in the month”
If Marijuana were legalized, legitimized and advertised this figure would no doubt more than double…just as alcohol consumption did!
Isn’t that something special to look forward to?
Fortunatley, it’s not happening as young males are not making these important decisions. (Phew).
Scroll back and check out the pain that legalization of alcohol has caused. Your feeble argument that it is out of the hands of criminals means what?
How many people die each year because of alcohol? 100,000!
Gee…do you think Al Capone and the many gangsters who would have followed him would have possibly killed 100,000 people per year?
Hey I have an idea on how to stop burglars. Leave the doors of your house wide open with a sign saying “I am not home” That way they won’t be stealing from you, you will be giving your stuff away. And according to your logic you will drop the crime rate!
Hey we can eliminate all sorts of crime with your way of thinking. It will be a horrible world but at least the crime statistics will be lower. We won’t be spending all that money incarcerating those poor misguided criminals. But we’ll be spending far more money on welfare and subsidizing all the people who have lost their possessions. Funny how that works huh?
So you see it as a prescription medicine. Unlike some others on this thread who want it to be legal like alcohol. Well, I give you some credit for this. It would be far better through the use of a prescription than allowing say liquor stores to sell it. But over all not that much better as you prove with your statement about prescription drugs hitting the street.
I never said you were. But I’ll take a criminal cartel over legalizing, legitimizing and advertising a substance that would wreak pain and high costs in many forms on society. Tell me again about all the good that pot can do for America? Oh yeah, that’s right, you can’t! All you and the others can claim is “it’s not as bad as alcohol…and um…dats legal” What a compelling argument. And by the way some feel that pot is as bad or worse than alcohol in many ways.
More people driving while high causes more accidents. Is this news?
“The latest review of the evidence reports that driving under the influence of marijuana appears to increase the risk of motor vehicle crashes by a factor of two to three times.”
I see…and by legalizing, legitimizing and advertising pot there will be less users? Your thought process not only falls short it is quite convoluted. You suggest above that you want pot legalized by prescription only yet on the other hand you claim here that prescription meds are abused as street drugs!
Well, if nothing else you’ve proved my point.
Anyway, go back to economics 101 my friend. You have some serious flaws in your game.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[/quote]
Too bad that claiming “most won’t like it” has absolutely no merit.
I wonder how many actually enjoyed their first cigarette? Yet, because it was legal, legitimate, and promoted by celebrities the average guy tried it and many continued on. As of 2000, smoking was practiced by approximately 1.22 billion people. Alcohol is yet another example which I talk about in my lengthy post above. There are zero indications that pot would be any different.
Your “feelings” on the topic are not accurate.
Those freakin facts get in the way every time huh Pittski?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[/quote]
Too bad that claiming “most won’t like it” has absolutely no merit.
I wonder how many actually enjoyed their first cigarette? Yet, because it was legal, legitimate, and promoted by celebrities the average guy tried it and many continued on. As of 2000, smoking was practiced by approximately 1.22 billion people. Alcohol is yet another example which I talk about in my lengthy post above. There are zero indications that pot would be any different.
Your “feelings” on the topic are not accurate.
Those freakin facts get in the way every time huh Pittski?[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[/quote]
Too bad that claiming “most won’t like it” has absolutely no merit.
I wonder how many actually enjoyed their first cigarette? Yet, because it was legal, legitimate, and promoted by celebrities the average guy tried it and many continued on. As of 2000, smoking was practiced by approximately 1.22 billion people. Alcohol is yet another example which I talk about in my lengthy post above. There are zero indications that pot would be any different.
Your “feelings” on the topic are not accurate.
Those freakin facts get in the way every time huh Pittski?[/quote]
ZEBADIAH , I am sorry you are not a true conservative . Spending trillions of dollars so your kids can conserve a couple brain cells is not my problem . You are taxing me to death . PLEZZZZ stop
Not if you think that there would be less people smoking pot if pot were legalized, legitimized and advertised. We only need to look at alcohol as a prime example of that. How many people were killed on the roads and highways over the past 10 years through alcohol related traffic fatalities? about 340,000!
How many total people die each year in some way because of alcohol? 100,000!
Why?
Because alcohol was legalized, legitimized and advertised. When this happens MORE people consume the product and hence more pain to society. If pot were legalized in this manner the costs that you say are wasted in enforcing this drug law would pale in the face of the costs due to health problems, traffic fatalities and other societal pain spread by this drug being legalized, legitimized and advertised.
If you don’t understand that you shouldn’t even be involved in this discussion.
And if you had follwed the thread from its beginning you would have read Maximus post regarding the problems that California is having regarding their treatment of marijuana. Scroll back and read what a resident of California has to say about pot legalization. Seems you missed that one. Either way it’s not a pretty picture…SURPRISE!
Where did I say that “everyone would be smoking weed”? Poor use of a straw man argument…very poor use. But there is absolutely no question that consumption would rise. I can see that you are no student of history (or business). You think that the billions of dollars spent on advertising products in the market place is wasted money? Do you think that competition which always brings prices down is somehow not going to happen with this one product?
Fortunately, history has given us a very similar example of what you want to do. Take a check on what happened after prohibition.
1-The quality of the alcohol went up.
2- Ability to obtain the product went up.
3- Prices of said product came down as competition for the consumers dollar went up.
4-Many very nasty consequences to society went up.
Those are indisputable facts that you should consider before posting again.
Pot, is a judgement altering drug, or didn’t you read the many links that I posted earlier in the debate? No I guess you didn’t.
Here is just one:
“Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that, in chronic users, marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.”
NICE! We definitely need more of this especially with drivers.
“According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, in 2009, 16.7 million Americans aged 12 or older used marijuana at least once in the month”
If Marijuana were legalized, legitimized and advertised this figure would no doubt more than double…just as alcohol consumption did!
Isn’t that something special to look forward to?
Fortunatley, it’s not happening as young males are not making these important decisions. (Phew).
Scroll back and check out the pain that legalization of alcohol has caused. Your feeble argument that it is out of the hands of criminals means what?
How many people die each year because of alcohol? 100,000!
Gee…do you think Al Capone and the many gangsters who would have followed him would have possibly killed 100,000 people per year?
Hey I have an idea on how to stop burglars. Leave the doors of your house wide open with a sign saying “I am not home” That way they won’t be stealing from you, you will be giving your stuff away. And according to your logic you will drop the crime rate!
Hey we can eliminate all sorts of crime with your way of thinking. It will be a horrible world but at least the crime statistics will be lower. We won’t be spending all that money incarcerating those poor misguided criminals. But we’ll be spending far more money on welfare and subsidizing all the people who have lost their possessions. Funny how that works huh?
So you see it as a prescription medicine. Unlike some others on this thread who want it to be legal like alcohol. Well, I give you some credit for this. It would be far better through the use of a prescription than allowing say liquor stores to sell it. But over all not that much better as you prove with your statement about prescription drugs hitting the street.
I never said you were. But I’ll take a criminal cartel over legalizing, legitimizing and advertising a substance that would wreak pain and high costs in many forms on society. Tell me again about all the good that pot can do for America? Oh yeah, that’s right, you can’t! All you and the others can claim is “it’s not as bad as alcohol…and um…dats legal” What a compelling argument. And by the way some feel that pot is as bad or worse than alcohol in many ways.
More people driving while high causes more accidents. Is this news?
“The latest review of the evidence reports that driving under the influence of marijuana appears to increase the risk of motor vehicle crashes by a factor of two to three times.”
I see…and by legalizing, legitimizing and advertising pot there will be less users? Your thought process not only falls short it is quite convoluted. You suggest above that you want pot legalized by prescription only yet on the other hand you claim here that prescription meds are abused as street drugs!
Well, if nothing else you’ve proved my point.
Anyway, go back to economics 101 my friend. You have some serious flaws in your game.
[/quote]
Lmao …you are the master of straw man arguments…I’ll rephrase the one you called a straw man :
So are you saying that consumption will increase in younger school going populations if it were legalized?
But way to ignore the following two links I posted and following up with a monster post filled with massive non relevance and putting words in my mouth I did not say.
Did I say alcohol and weed are same or different? That alcohol deaths on the road are acceptable?
And using numbers out of context to try drive home an emotional view that you think bolsters your relevant point…with a blatant blind eye turned to statistics in context? Just a quickie: 100.000 alcohol related deaths anually. So…are the population numbers of drivers going up or down? Are there more or less cars on the road? Is the number statistically static ? Are alcohol related accident deaths among the young trending up or down? Go look that up.
C’mon Zeb, up your game. I think you have it in you. Or is it only in US political analysis that you have a fairly clear picture?
But don’t sweat it, I know why you ignore what doesn’t agree with your world view. It’s all about society , baby. And control.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[/quote]
Too bad that claiming “most won’t like it” has absolutely no merit.
I wonder how many actually enjoyed their first cigarette? Yet, because it was legal, legitimate, and promoted by celebrities the average guy tried it and many continued on. As of 2000, smoking was practiced by approximately 1.22 billion people. Alcohol is yet another example which I talk about in my lengthy post above. There are zero indications that pot would be any different.
Your “feelings” on the topic are not accurate.
Those freakin facts get in the way every time huh Pittski?[/quote]
ZEBADIAH , I am sorry you are not a true conservative . Spending trillions of dollars so your kids can conserve a couple brain cells is not my problem . You are taxing me to death .
PLEZZZZ stop[/quote]
I am a true conservative I see the value in spending some money now in order to save some even bigger dollars later…Pittski!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The following is a long term STUDY.
Just what we need more teens smoking pot!
“Teens who smoke marijuana frequently are more likely to experience a long-term drop in their IQ, according to a new study.”
“The researchers also surveyed people who knew the study participants well at age 38 and found that the more often participants were rated as marijuana-dependent in the surveys over their lifetimes, the more memory and attention problems were noticed by their acquaintances over the previous year.”
“Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse which helped fund the research, said the research was “the cleanest study I’ve ever read” that looked long-term harm from marijuana use.”
It shows the total effectiveness of present marijuana policy.I think we need to double down on this losing pony
[/quote]
How many more times do you think that it needs to be pointed out to you that when a product is more readily available that it will be consumed more often?
currently 1 in 10 teens smoke dope regularly, if it becomes legal that figure will skyrocket! perhaps 50%, maybe more.
You don’t understand capitalism any better than your hero Obama.[/quote]
All those kids that want dope have no problems finding it
[/quote]
But the simple question that you have to ask yourself is this: Will they (and many more who normally wouldn’t seek it out) be able to obtain it easier when it is legalized, legitimized and advertised? History tells us YES![/quote]
So if they do no big deal , most won’t like it . My wife does not like it . Most people because they believe all the bullshit about become paranoid . IMO that is the only risk to the drug.
[/quote]
Too bad that claiming “most won’t like it” has absolutely no merit.
I wonder how many actually enjoyed their first cigarette? Yet, because it was legal, legitimate, and promoted by celebrities the average guy tried it and many continued on. As of 2000, smoking was practiced by approximately 1.22 billion people. Alcohol is yet another example which I talk about in my lengthy post above. There are zero indications that pot would be any different.
Your “feelings” on the topic are not accurate.
Those freakin facts get in the way every time huh Pittski?[/quote]
ZEBADIAH , I am sorry you are not a true conservative . Spending trillions of dollars so your kids can conserve a couple brain cells is not my problem . You are taxing me to death .
PLEZZZZ stop[/quote]
I am a true conservative I see the value in spending some money now in order to save some even bigger dollars later…Pittski![/quote]
What problem I can show you people that have smoked pot for more than a half century with ZERO problems or EFFECTS Please show me one person with some sort of problem