[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:Sic semper tyrannis.[/quote]point lifty stuPIDicus
[/quote]
LOL…This is your best post for the entire year.
[/quote]
Oh Lord…
Notice how hard it is to find a study on “car accidents and ONLY marijuana use”. All of the studies posted add it in with “other drugs” or they ignore the alcohol use with it.
If I want to know how much ONE thing directly effects a specific outcome, I find studies on that ONE thing alone…not studies WITH alcohol.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS got all defensive:[/quote]Come on Lifty LOL. You know I’ve been yer buddy here forever. I’m jist givin ya a lighthearted rough time in the context of the spectacularly fantastic and unworkable larger world view that you hold in spite of every syllable of world history testifying to it’s impossibility. Humanistic goodwill notwithstanding. Smart people make stupid points. The inimitable St. Patrick of Atlanta is possibly the greatest currently living practitioner of that very phenomenon.
I may as well throw in here that it is absolutely not possible to make a case against the legalization of marijuana, but not against alcohol and tobacco without a defining reliance upon special pleading. This thread is proof positive. That said, special pleading may be enough, but recognize the argument for what it is.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS got all defensive:[/quote]Come on Lifty LOL. You know I’ve been yer buddy here forever. I’m jist givin ya a lighthearted rough time in the context of the spectacularly fantastic and unworkable larger world view that you hold in spite of every syllable of world history testifying to it’s impossibility.
[/quote]
One would believe you to be more sympathetic to such a stance?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS got all defensive:[/quote]Come on Lifty LOL. You know I’ve been yer buddy here forever. I’m jist givin ya a lighthearted rough time in the context of the spectacularly fantastic and unworkable larger world view that you hold in spite of every syllable of world history testifying to it’s impossibility.
[/quote]
One would believe you to be more sympathetic to such a stance?[/quote]Not the way it’s formulated by today’s non Christians no, but that’s another thread.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Notice how hard it is to find a study on “car accidents and ONLY marijuana use”. All of the studies posted add it in with “other drugs” or they ignore the alcohol use with it.
If I want to know how much ONE thing directly effects a specific outcome, I find studies on that ONE thing alone…not studies WITH alcohol.[/quote]
Except the one I posted above.
And this one…
“Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine.”
And this one…
“A recent study on fatal driving accidents conducted a culpability (responsibility) analysis and concluded that marijuana users were significantly more culpable than non-marijuana users and likelihood of being responsible for an accident increased with marijuana dose. According to the 2004 National Drug Strategy Household Survey, about 5% of males and 2% of females reported driving under the influence of a drug other than alcohol. marijuana is the most common illicit drug used…”
And this…
“How does marijuana affect driving ability?
Driving experiments show that marijuana affects a wide range of skills needed for safe driving – thinking and reflexes are slowed, making it hard for drivers to respond to sudden, unexpected events. Also, a driver’s ability to “track” (stay in lane) through curves, to brake quickly, and to maintain speed and the proper distance between cars is affected. Research shows that these skills are impaired for at least 4-6 hours after smoking a single marijuana cigarette, long after the “high” is gone.”
And this is the one above that you conveniently ignored
"A number of studies have examined illicit drug use in drivers involved in motor vehicle crashes, reckless driving, or fatal accidents. For example?
One study found that about 34 percent of motor vehicle crash victims admitted to a Maryland trauma center tested positive for ?drugs only;? about 16 percent tested positive for ?alcohol only.? Approximately 9.9 percent (or 1 in 10) tested positive for alcohol and drugs, and within this group, 50 percent were younger than age 18.5 Although it is interesting that more people in this study tested positive for ?drugs only? compared with ?alcohol only,? it should be noted that this represents one geographic location, so findings cannot be generalized. In fact, the majority of studies among similar populations have found higher prevalence rates of alcohol use compared with drug use.6
Studies conducted in several localities have found that approximately 4 to 14 percent of drivers who sustained injury or died in traffic accidents tested positive for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana.7
In a large study of almost 3,400 fatally injured drivers from three Australian states (Victoria, New South Wales, and Western Australia) between 1990 and 1999, drugs other than alcohol were present in 26.7 percent of the cases.8 These included cannabis (13.5 percent), opioids (4.9 percent), stimulants (4.1 percent), benzodiazepines (4.1 percent), and other psychotropic drugs (2.7 percent). Almost 10 percent of the cases involved both alcohol and other drugs"
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Notice how hard it is to find a study on “car accidents and ONLY marijuana use”. All of the studies posted add it in with “other drugs” or they ignore the alcohol use with it.
If I want to know how much ONE thing directly effects a specific outcome, I find studies on that ONE thing alone…not studies WITH alcohol.[/quote]
Except the one I posted above.
And this one…
“Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine.”
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjkids_faq13.htm[/quote]
Yeah…they don’t say whether alcohol was involved or not. Not to mention someone testing positive for marijuana does NOT mean they are high at the moment…so how did they determine when they last smoked marijuana?
Why aren’t YOU asking these questions?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
And this one…
“A recent study on fatal driving accidents conducted a culpability (responsibility) analysis and concluded that marijuana users were significantly more culpable than non-marijuana users and likelihood of being responsible for an accident increased with marijuana dose. According to the 2004 National Drug Strategy Household Survey, about 5% of males and 2% of females reported driving under the influence of a drug other than alcohol. marijuana is the most common illicit drug used…”
http://adai.washington.edu/marijuana/factsheets/driving.htm[/quote]
Yeah, that’s not a study. That’s a write up referencing a study with no specifics. Unless you expect me to spend a few hours looking for that study, try to find abstracts to real studies…not other people’s opinions of those studies.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
And this…
“How does marijuana affect driving ability?
Driving experiments show that marijuana affects a wide range of skills needed for safe driving – thinking and reflexes are slowed, making it hard for drivers to respond to sudden, unexpected events. Also, a driver’s ability to “track” (stay in lane) through curves, to brake quickly, and to maintain speed and the proper distance between cars is affected. Research shows that these skills are impaired for at least 4-6 hours after smoking a single marijuana cigarette, long after the “high” is gone.”
http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
[/quote]
Yeah, that’s not a study either…and it’s from 1984. Damn…that was before Back to The Future.
Here, let me show you, Zeb.
Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance
U.S. Department of Transportation,
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
(DOT HS 808 078), Final Report, November 1993
You see, that is the title of a real study. That study can be found here:
http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/25000/25800/25867/DOT-HS-808-078.pdf
This study found that:
[quote]* A low THC dose (100 ug/kg) does not impair driving ability in urban traffic to the same extent as a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.04g%.
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Drivers under the influence of marijuana tend to over-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and compensate when they can; e.g. by increasing effort to accomplish the task, increasing headway or slowing down, or a combination of these.
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Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to under-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and do not invest compensatory effort.
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The maximum road tracking impairment after the highest THC dose (300 ug/kg) was within a range of effects produced by many commonly used medicinal drugs and less than that associated with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.08g% in previous studies employing the same test.
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It is not possible to conclude anything about a driver’s impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations of THC and THC-COOH determined in a single sample.
[/quote]
I mean, according to a real study, the “study” you posted is false because testing positive can’t tell you shit about impairment.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Notice how hard it is to find a study on “car accidents and ONLY marijuana use”. All of the studies posted add it in with “other drugs” or they ignore the alcohol use with it.
If I want to know how much ONE thing directly effects a specific outcome, I find studies on that ONE thing alone…not studies WITH alcohol.[/quote]
Except the one I posted above.
And this one…
“Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine.”
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjkids_faq13.htm[/quote]
Yeah…they don’t say whether alcohol was involved or not. Not to mention someone testing positive for marijuana does NOT mean they are high at the moment…so how did they determine when they last smoked marijuana?
Why aren’t YOU asking these questions?[/quote]
A better question is why aren’t you believing that it’s possible for a drug which alters your perception and your senses in general could also cause you to drive with less effectiveness? In fact, aside from all of the evidence that I posted one would think that it is common sense which tells us that driving under the influence of marijuana is a really bad idea. And that is exactly what my links point to.
Yet, instead of discouraging such an act you are questioning whether it actually worsens someone’s driving ability.
Absolutely AMAZING!
All because you want to win an argument?
Maybe it’s time to start thinking about the many 18-22 year old’s who actually take the time to read these posts. If they were to listen to you they might just be encouraged to smoke a joint and then get behind the wheel.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
A better question is why aren’t you believing that it’s possible for a drug which alters your perception and your senses in general could also cause you to drive with less effectiveness? .[/quote]
Because real studies tell me different. Real studies admit it is dose related and also admits that marijuana smokers tend to do the exact opposite of alcohol drinkers when driving by compensating and slowing down.
Nothing to do with you ZEB, but I almost said this. I won BMX races in my teens requiring precise riding techniques at very high speeds and split second decision making while smoking dope. On the other hand I wound up face down unconscious with puke frozen to my head with alcohol. Nobody’s telling me that driving impairment is the same with weed and alcohol. You know better than that. Of course this says nothing of whether it should legalized by itself, but let’s not cling to falsehood as an argument.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
A better question is why aren’t you believing that it’s possible for a drug which alters your perception and your senses in general could also cause you to drive with less effectiveness? .[/quote]
Because real studies tell me different. Real studies admit it is dose related and also admits that marijuana smokers tend to do the exact opposite of alcohol drinkers when driving by compensating and slowing down.[/quote]
Nonsense, once again you are trying to justify the use of marijuana by claiming that alcohol is worse. Also, driving more slowly does not mean that you are driving safely you must know this. Using pot prior to driving distorts perception that is a FACT. And that is one tool needed to drive safely.
Here is a link that speaks directly to that issue.
[quote]orion wrote:
Did you ever step on a white mans shadow?
[/quote]
Did you see that episode of X-Files where everyone who stepped on the guy’s shadow got turned into dust because it was “dark matter”?
Black people are raised with the knowledge that whitey shadows are just like that. If you stare at a white woman while also stepping on a shadow you actually become white though…and you can see what problems that would have made.
Zeb…do you know what a study is?
This is giving me a headache…and I’m all out of Robitussin.
In addition to the devastating effects that legalizing pot would have on drivers and those effected by drivers who have just used pot.
Here are two more concerns beyond the driving under the influence of pot debate.
"Health Hazards
Effects of Marijuana on the Brain. Researchers have found that THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is acted on by the hippocampus. This is a component of the brain’s limbic system that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of sensory experiences with emotions and motivations. Investigations have shown that THC suppresses neurons in the information-processing system of the hippocampus. In addition, researchers have discovered that learned behaviors, which depend on the hippocampus, also deteriorate.
Effects on the Lungs. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke.
Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers. This may be due to marijuana users inhaling more deeply and holding the smoke in the lungs."
http://www.theantidrug.com/drug-information/marijuana-facts/health-effects-marijuana.aspx