Cuba produces very well trained doctors…I have worked with some…that is not the point…the system sucks and they have very limited resources, for whatever reason.
does not matter how well trained the doctors is a give country are, when you are the average joe and can’t get access to one because he/she(the doctor) only shows up to work 1-2 times a week because the other days they are waiting tables or driving a taxi at one of the various tourists resorts, making more money doing that in a day than they make as a doctor for a month!
also, it does not matter how well trained the medical professionals of your country are trained if as an average person there is no medicine to treat you with.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:you still here kid? figured you would have gotten tired of being an all knowing interweb smart ass/tough guy and left this argument to go rifle through your moms purse looking for weed-money.
I know too much about how it is in Cuba from my family and close family friends to care what a bunch of college kids THINK they know about life in Cuba. I will take the info from people who have actually lived there over the stats that you guys troll up on the net.[/quote]
Why do people talk about the US being in recession? They say the poverty level is 14% and rising? That’s bullshit. John Paulson made $5 billion in 2010.
[quote]one thing is certain though…if you were actually in my presence… instead of safe behind a keyboard…
though I do not doubt you would still try to intelligently support your argument…
terms like “moron” and “pathetic” etc. would NOT be hurled in my direction by you. [/quote]
If you said the same things in real life that you’ve said in this thread then yeah, they would be. Because your attempts to dodge facts ARE pathetic.
Besides, threatening (implicitly or not) to beat me up on an INTERNET FORUM is pretty much rock bottom. I shouldn’t have to say much else.
Quit changing the subject. You were wrong, and got pissy about it.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t think the CIA has any reason to inflate Cuba’s numbers.[/quote]
They don’t. They review Cuba’s self reported numbers and then guess from there. It is pure fiction.[/quote]
You know this for certain? how?[/quote]
I read. Show me otherwise and perhaps I am mistaken. Cuba self reports the statistics. WHO, CIA and all other numbers are based on their fabrication.
Some of you fuckers are stupid enough to believe Castro’s lies.
Ok, can you provide the source where you read that? This way we’ll all be on the level with each other.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Ok, can you provide the source where you read that? This way we’ll all be on the level with each other.[/quote]
I have no idea where I first read it but a simple search for cuba self report health care statistics yields this:
http://westernhero.blogspot.com/2010/04/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics.html
Cuba self-reports its health care statistics such as infant mortality rates, and gosh golly, they lie. Who’da thunk it? And yet those statistics get quoted and relied on as being accurate. It’s absolutely absurd! You can’t rely on statistics when they are collected based on different criteria. It’s apples to oranges and completely invalid. Infant mortality is the worst criteria to use to compare health care systems because we all define it differently, but it gets used because the statistics make us look bad, but in reality we’re way ahead because we count preemie births and fertility treatment induced multi-births, and some countries allow a month of life before considering the baby a birth. That means that if a 2 week old dies they don’t report it as a part of the infant mortality stats. It’s ridiculous! We’re the best and trying to be like the worst. How stupid!
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm
If you can find evidence that their statistics are legitimate please post. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are credible.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
terms like “moron” and “pathetic” etc. would NOT be hurled in my direction by you.
If you said the same things in real life that you’ve said in this thread then yeah, they would be.
[/quote]
Then you are as rude as you are arrogant and ideologically unbalanced.
And you’d be justifiably “talking” through a jaw wired shut.
[/quote]
just put that little spit fuck on ignore…he is not worth it…trust me…haha
I actually have worked with health care professionals who have came from Cuba…I suppose my discussions with them matter little too, only the data these interweb warriors troll up, cherry pick and spit out.
Everybody is an expert on everything on the internet.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Ok, can you provide the source where you read that? This way we’ll all be on the level with each other.[/quote]
I have no idea where I first read it but a simple search for cuba self report health care statistics yields this:
http://westernhero.blogspot.com/2010/04/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics.html
Cuba self-reports its health care statistics such as infant mortality rates, and gosh golly, they lie. Who’da thunk it? And yet those statistics get quoted and relied on as being accurate. It’s absolutely absurd! You can’t rely on statistics when they are collected based on different criteria. It’s apples to oranges and completely invalid. Infant mortality is the worst criteria to use to compare health care systems because we all define it differently, but it gets used because the statistics make us look bad, but in reality we’re way ahead because we count preemie births and fertility treatment induced multi-births, and some countries allow a month of life before considering the baby a birth. That means that if a 2 week old dies they don’t report it as a part of the infant mortality stats. It’s ridiculous! We’re the best and trying to be like the worst. How stupid!
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm
If you can find evidence that their statistics are legitimate please post. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are credible.[/quote]
all stats “can” lie…
that is why I thought that providing a little hard earned real world common sense from real life experience would be of some value in this thread.
I do not post much on the PWI forum, exactly because of all the rude and insulting bickering that goes on, that trust me, WOULD NOT take place if we were all in a room together.
that goes for BOTH sides…when face to face with somebody, not safely anonymous behind a keyboard on the internet, people tend to be more civil, common decency and respect tend to be the rule, not the exception.
But being a health care professional, and of Cuban heritage, hell, I thought I might be able to provide some insight on this thread.
haha… well I guess the guys who are still in school and are digging up stats on google can educate me about Cuba and healthcare…who would have thunk?
here is a little test, I am not calling out everybody who had a differing opinion than me,
many have been civil and presented their argument respectively and intelligently(still wrong though 
) but the real far left radicals(you know who you are),
IF I had chimed in with “personal experience” that supported your liberal leftist point of view, say that my family thought that the system in Cuba was far superior than that of the States…
I bet that my personal experience would NOT have been brushed off as nonsense.
tell me otherwise, and I will gladly go into a PM discussion with you so we can set up a time and place for me to call you a liar to your face.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
terms like “moron” and “pathetic” etc. would NOT be hurled in my direction by you.
If you said the same things in real life that you’ve said in this thread then yeah, they would be.
[/quote]
Then you are as rude as you are arrogant and ideologically unbalanced.
And you’d be justifiably “talking” through a jaw wired shut.
[/quote]
just put that little spit fuck on ignore…he is not worth it…trust me…haha
I actually have worked with health care professionals who have came from Cuba…I suppose my discussions with them matter little too, only the data these interweb warriors troll up, cherry pick and spit out.
Everybody is an expert on everything on the internet. [/quote]
It scares me to think about how these kids who are learning to “communicate” from behind a an anonymous keyboard will turn out as adults. Are these the “men” of the future? [/quote]
In my opinion, the anonymity of the internet is one of the biggest reasons for the complete lack of respect and decency in people’s lives these days. Immature kids with no real world experience spout mindless bullshit all day on forums, with no repercussions, and over time they believe that’s how life works. I pity them the day they step out of the house and try that shit in real life, to the wrong person…
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
terms like “moron” and “pathetic” etc. would NOT be hurled in my direction by you.
If you said the same things in real life that you’ve said in this thread then yeah, they would be.
[/quote]
Then you are as rude as you are arrogant and ideologically unbalanced.
And you’d be justifiably “talking” through a jaw wired shut.
[/quote]
just put that little spit fuck on ignore…he is not worth it…trust me…haha
I actually have worked with health care professionals who have came from Cuba…I suppose my discussions with them matter little too, only the data these interweb warriors troll up, cherry pick and spit out.
Everybody is an expert on everything on the internet. [/quote]
It scares me to think about how these kids who are learning to “communicate” from behind a an anonymous keyboard will turn out as adults. Are these the “men” of the future? [/quote]
In my opinion, the anonymity of the internet is one of the biggest reasons for the complete lack of respect and decency in people’s lives these days. Immature kids with no real world experience spout mindless bullshit all day on forums, with no repercussions, and over time they believe that’s how life works. I pity them the day they step out of the house and try that shit in real life, to the wrong person…[/quote]
well said.
There, now. Get all that out of your system? Feel better? Good.
You’re still wrong.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:IF I had chimed in with “personal experience” that supported your liberal leftist point of view, say that my family thought that the system in Cuba was far superior than that of the States…
I bet that my personal experience would NOT have been brushed off as nonsense.
tell me otherwise, and I will gladly go into a PM discussion with you so we can set up a time and place for me to call you a liar to your face.[/quote]
From page 3:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote: By the way, Maximus, I do know a couple from Cuba, and they have good things to say about the country. They acknowledge that it is not as rich as the US (a claim no one has made anywhere) but that they do a good job with the limited resources they have.
I have not previously mentioned this because, as I said, anecdotes are not applicable to statistical issues such as this.[/quote]
Can you finally man up and admit the fact that you’re just wrong?
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Ok, can you provide the source where you read that? This way we’ll all be on the level with each other.[/quote]
I have no idea where I first read it but a simple search for cuba self report health care statistics yields this:
http://westernhero.blogspot.com/2010/04/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics.html
Cuba self-reports its health care statistics such as infant mortality rates, and gosh golly, they lie. Who’da thunk it? And yet those statistics get quoted and relied on as being accurate. It’s absolutely absurd! You can’t rely on statistics when they are collected based on different criteria. It’s apples to oranges and completely invalid. Infant mortality is the worst criteria to use to compare health care systems because we all define it differently, but it gets used because the statistics make us look bad, but in reality we’re way ahead because we count preemie births and fertility treatment induced multi-births, and some countries allow a month of life before considering the baby a birth. That means that if a 2 week old dies they don’t report it as a part of the infant mortality stats. It’s ridiculous! We’re the best and trying to be like the worst. How stupid!
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm
If you can find evidence that their statistics are legitimate please post. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are credible.[/quote]
Been away from this thread for a minute, but let me say thank you for this post! Finally after 8 pages someone attacked the actual statistics Ryan used rather than simply ad hominemed the guy. You are 100% correct that each country defines the infant mortality rate slightly differently and the US has one of the most “generous” uses of that term. To put it simply we try to save babies other countries wouldn’t even dream of wasting resources on. This does seriously alter the statistics at first blush. Kudos man!
[quote]kilpaba wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Ok, can you provide the source where you read that? This way we’ll all be on the level with each other.[/quote]
I have no idea where I first read it but a simple search for cuba self report health care statistics yields this:
http://westernhero.blogspot.com/2010/04/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics.html
Cuba self-reports its health care statistics such as infant mortality rates, and gosh golly, they lie. Who’da thunk it? And yet those statistics get quoted and relied on as being accurate. It’s absolutely absurd! You can’t rely on statistics when they are collected based on different criteria. It’s apples to oranges and completely invalid. Infant mortality is the worst criteria to use to compare health care systems because we all define it differently, but it gets used because the statistics make us look bad, but in reality we’re way ahead because we count preemie births and fertility treatment induced multi-births, and some countries allow a month of life before considering the baby a birth. That means that if a 2 week old dies they don’t report it as a part of the infant mortality stats. It’s ridiculous! We’re the best and trying to be like the worst. How stupid!
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/health-myth.htm
If you can find evidence that their statistics are legitimate please post. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are credible.[/quote]
Been away from this thread for a minute, but let me say thank you for this post! Finally after 8 pages someone attacked the actual statistics Ryan used rather than simply ad hominemed the guy. You are 100% correct that each country defines the infant mortality rate slightly differently and the US has one of the most “generous” uses of that term. To put it simply we try to save babies other countries wouldn’t even dream of wasting resources on. This does seriously alter the statistics at first blush. Kudos man!
[/quote]
I guess I thought people understood that the Cuban statistics are not based in reality as they are in the free world. I am certain there are many other egregious examples but I am not going to research them.
the example you posted is very consistent with the way that one hospital I mentioned in an earlier post cooks its stats.
I just know this by personal experience(thunder/lightening) I did not find out the information on the internet.
I actually live it on a daily basis.
I guess what I am trying to say is kudos Big Banana for finding that…I am glad Kilpaba is impressed…BUT I am sure that many could post their own internet studies, stats, whatever that contraindicated what you just posted.
Keep on living in denial, Banana–Cuba obviously has very well trained doctors, since they train some from the US, and our government even maintains a program encouraging Cuban doctors to defect to the United States:
http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/CubanMedPrf091906.pdf
They have enough doctors to have the second highest doctor-to-patient ratio in the world, and to send thousands of them overseas to serve for years at a time in under-served or disaster areas. They even have an impressive biotech industry. None of this is open to debate.
But we’re just sure that they’re cooking their stats and the place is really a hellhole, no matter what Cuba, UNICEF, the WHO, or the CIA would have you believe! Because it’s all a conspiracy!!!
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Keep on living in denial, Banana–Cuba obviously has very well trained doctors, since they train some from the US, and our government even maintains a program encouraging Cuban doctors to defect to the United States:
http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/CubanMedPrf091906.pdf
They have enough doctors to have the second highest doctor-to-patient ratio in the world, and to send thousands of them overseas to serve for years at a time in under-served or disaster areas. They even have an impressive biotech industry. None of this is open to debate.
But we’re just sure that they’re cooking their stats and the place is really a hellhole, no matter what Cuba, UNICEF, the WHO, or the CIA would have you believe! Because it’s all a conspiracy!!![/quote]
You don’t need a conspiracy if you think the root information is incorrect. You just need a bunch of people relying on incorrect information. As far as it goes, it’s not as if the various agencies have had stellar historical track records evaluating what’s going on behind the scenes in closed societies - even closed communist societies ( e.g., http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7069-15.cfm ) Also, closed, totalitarian societies have well known histories of both representing themselves to the outside world as much more advanced and materially well off than they are in actuality, and conversely representing the outside world to their own citizens as much less advanced and materially well off.
Also, your point on the U.S. encouraging defecting doctors, don’t you see how that relates to your point on Cuban doctors serving overseas? The U.S. also encourages the defection of Cuban athletes, though perhaps not so overtly. Given that the majority of Cubans are not allowed to travel overseas, targeting those who are seems unremarkable. BTW, why do you think the regime would want to restrict most of its citizens from traveling overseas?