If Romney wins and repeals Obamacare, what exactly will take up all those pages? As a President, he’s got a place in history already. But it’s not going to stand out much. It’s beginning to look likely that this is a one term President who’ll probably see much of his legacy repealed. Sure, as with any President there’s biographies to be written. But this isn’t a ‘tear down this wall’ Presidency.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Wrong…wrong…and WRONG, TB…
I don’t “want” anything, one way or the other. I think that its more you who wants there to be completely negative narrative about the man, and that probably won’t happen.[/quote]
With due respect, I don’t think this true. No offense, but I believe you have some investment in this President that puts you beyond objectivity.
As for me? No, I don’t want there to be a completely negative narrative about the man, and that’s because I don’t even have a completely negative narrative about the man. I’ve already stated why I think his election was special and that I was proud of it, and I think his presidency is mixed, but has bright spots.
I’ve also not been complimentary of his Tea Party adversaries in Congress, but I also believe that the Tea Party and Obama are simply two sides of the same coin, and it’s their view of the world from the sides of that coin that has set our politics backwards for years to come. I blame the capital-T, capital-P Tea Party for a good bit of that, and I also blame Obama at least as much for this regression.
Are you able to do the same?[/quote]
Absolutely.
I think that pushing something like the Affordable Care Act without Bi-Partisan support was a HUGE mistake…and that his ego has often overridden good political judgment.
(Sorry for sounding like a Fan-Boy…I actually am not…)
Mufasa
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I blame the capital-T, capital-P Tea Party for a good bit of that, [/quote]
Can you go into more detail about this if you don’t mind?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
If Romney wins and repeals Obamacare, what exactly will take up all those pages? As a President, he’s got a place in history already. But it’s not going to stand out much. It’s beginning to look likely that this is a one term President who’ll probably see much of his legacy repealed. Sure, as with any President there’s biographies to be written. But this isn’t a ‘tear down this wall’ Presidency. [/quote]
That’s precisely the point. Even if a President Romney doesn’t overturn Obamacare (the signature achievement), that law will have to undergo major revisions in the near term becausr of its unsustainability and bureaucratic errors. That isn’t purely a function of ideology, it will be one of math.
When that happens, will there be hosannas about how great it was? No - there will lots of swear words at how poorly the bill was constructed and how irresponsible it was to shove this time bomb onto a future Congress.
Not exactly a “tear down this wall” moment, as you said.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Can you go into more detail about this if you don’t mind?[/quote]
Sure. Like Obama, they want ideological cramdown, and they want it now. They weren’t interested in doing the work of politics. Many of these folks don’t know how to govern, and they think showing up in DC armed with ideology alone is going to get things done. And they back incredibly poor candidates and show that they have a terrible sense of strategy.
Because of their ideological fever, they also, like Obama, misread their mandate - yes, your district elected you, but no, that doesn’t mean there is aactually a mandate to the House of Representatives to abolish executive departments and cut federal spending by 98%. The mandate was to put a halt to Obama-Pelosi, and then get serious about real, doable reform (within the context that the Senate and White House were not controlled by the GOP). The Tea Party got excited about the first prong of that, but weren’t cut out for the second.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Can you go into more detail about this if you don’t mind?[/quote]
Sure. Like Obama, they want ideological cramdown, and they want it now. They weren’t interested in doing the work of politics. Many of these folks don’t know how to govern, and they think showing up in DC armed with ideology alone is going to get things done. And they back incredibly poor candidates and show that they have a terrible sense of strategy.
Because of their ideological fever, they also, like Obama, misread their mandate - yes, your district elected you, but no, that doesn’t mean there is aactually a mandate to the House of Representatives to abolish executive departments and cut federal spending by 98%. The mandate was to put a halt to Obama-Pelosi, and then get serious about real, doable reform (within the context that the Senate and White House were not controlled by the GOP). The Tea Party got excited about the first prong of that, but weren’t cut out for the second.
[/quote]
So, in your mind this is a problem of political youth and inexperience, or flat out general ineptness that can’t be fixed?
And FTR I don’t care what kind of congressman Alan West is, he is a badass mofo and I would follow that dude to hell and back.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Wrong…wrong…and WRONG, TB…
I don’t “want” anything, one way or the other. I think that its more you who wants there to be completely negative narrative about the man, and that probably won’t happen.[/quote]
With due respect, I don’t think this true. No offense, but I believe you have some investment in this President that puts you beyond objectivity.
As for me? No, I don’t want there to be a completely negative narrative about the man, and that’s because I don’t even have a completely negative narrative about the man. I’ve already stated why I think his election was special and that I was proud of it, and I think his presidency is mixed, but has bright spots.
I’ve also not been complimentary of his Tea Party adversaries in Congress, but I also believe that the Tea Party and Obama are simply two sides of the same coin, and it’s their view of the world from the sides of that coin that has set our politics backwards for years to come. I blame the capital-T, capital-P Tea Party for a good bit of that, and I also blame Obama at least as much for this regression.
Are you able to do the same?[/quote]
Absolutely.
I think that pushing something like the Affordable Care Act without Bi-Partisan support was a HUGE mistake…and that his ego has often overridden good political judgment.
(Sorry for sounding like a Fan-Boy…I actually am not…)
Mufasa[/quote]
I agree, I think ramming it through, not to mention the whoredom to get it through was not appreciated.
Never thought I would see a $250 Billion train exchanged for 1 vote for his healthcare law.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So, in your mind this is a problem of political youth and inexperience, or flat out general ineptness that can’t be fixed?[/quote]
I don’t actually know - both? The problem is they swoop into DC claiming the mantle of the Founding Fathers and then they can’t quite seem to get through their heads that the Founders deliberately set up a system that requires deliberation, compromise and pitting interests against each other to force smarter legislation (not to be confused with “smart”).
Thus, having to reach out across the aisle to get things done is a feature of the system, not a bug. Now, that doesn’t mean always laying down your principles and having no backbone, but it does mean that if you think that controlling only one third of the lawmaking branches somehow magically empowers you to stand up and demand the federal government be cut in half without easing your way into doable reform, your principles are largely irrelevant because you’re too much of an idiot to put your principles in action.
Experience could cure this, but maybe not.
One of Obama’s biggest flaws is that everything he wants to do has to be “transformational” for legacy and ego purposes. There can be no moderate successes. If he’s a quarterback, every pass has to be for the end zone. He can’t just move the chains, make good progress, dump it off to the tight end. Everything must be “historic” and “right now”. It has been a major flaw in his presidency and frankly, his personality.
Many of the Tea Partiers suffer the same flaw.
I like that guy, too.
Too early to talk about legacies until we know whether or not there is a second term. However:
I believe he will be looked on favorably (in the longview) regardless. Don’t take that to mean that there won’t be some of the population who intensely dislike him-hell, I have a friend’s parent who loathes Reagan with the fire of a thousand suns, and he tends to be pretty well liked all around. However, between being the first black president, arguably helping us avoid another depression, and passing even the first attempt at healthcare reform (ultimately a success or not), there is plenty of good to outweigh the bad of a sluggish recovery if history wants to look for it: and it will IMO due to the inspirational moment of his election. It’s a lousy story in the longview otherwise-not saying that it’s right but history tends to romanticize when possible.
Obama will likely be remembered more than Grover Cleveland, Rutherford B. Hayes and Gerald Ford. Not much discussion about Ford ever.
[quote]nickj_777 wrote:
Obama will likely be remembered more than Grover Cleveland, Rutherford B. Hayes and Gerald Ford. Not much discussion about Ford ever.[/quote]
I dub you Pittbull II.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Absolutely.
I think that pushing something like the Affordable Care Act without Bi-Partisan support was a HUGE mistake…and that his ego has often overridden good political judgment.
(Sorry for sounding like a Fan-Boy…I actually am not…)
Mufasa[/quote]
Not sure if this article has been posted in this forum, but it touches on this point. The stars were aligned for Obama as he took office (article lays this out) giving him the opportunity for wild success. He squandered it on a huge piece of shit that he rammed down the throats of Americans.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/330505/presidency-squandered-victor-davis-hanson
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Absolutely.
I think that pushing something like the Affordable Care Act without Bi-Partisan support was a HUGE mistake…and that his ego has often overridden good political judgment.
(Sorry for sounding like a Fan-Boy…I actually am not…)
Mufasa[/quote]
Not sure if this article has been posted in this forum, but it touches on this point. The stars were aligned for Obama as he took office (article lays this out) giving him the opportunity for wild success. He squandered it on a huge piece of shit that he rammed down the throats of Americans.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/330505/presidency-squandered-victor-davis-hanson
[/quote]
I don’t need a article to tell me that in 2008 a Democrat was going to get elected. WE ALL knew that.