Lab Results - Now What?

VTBalla34 · August 19, 2011, 2:32pm

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

VT what is your take on having multiple injections. For example, if someone is doing fine on 1 shot per week do you think there is always room for improvement having multiple? Or can you have exactly the same results with 1 shot per week? Or will there always be a slight benefit (even if very small) from multiple shots?[/quote]

I think there will always be a slight benefit to more frequent injections (estrogen control is a major factor) but you have to consider the economics of it. If doubling your injection protocol only nets you a 1% improvement, is it worth it? That’s something you have to decide for yourself…

But personally, if someone does not need arimidex or hcg, and feels fine at one shot, I see little to be gained by going to more frequent

Back on topic:

LowTinTX: Jesus Christ dude…you are on the first day and already considering quitting? You honestly should get your head examined by a psychiatrist man…you seem to have some sort of inability to commit or fear of commitment or something…

You didn’t get gyno after one day of using androgel…the pain in your nipple/chest area is all in your head…

Your doctor was unable to figure out the cause of your low T (this is why you started this thread a month ago, remember?). Most docs will not be able to identify the cause of your low T, even fewer will be able to fix it. You will spend a long time chasing your tail.

But do whatever you think is right. It is probably time for me to back out of this thread as I end up face palming myself every time I read it.

scj119 · August 19, 2011, 2:52pm

[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
Perhaps I should ask the doctor to
Invest his time into finding the cause. [/quote]

Are you kidding me? After you ask us for advice (we tell you a bunch of tests to get in order to help find the cause), you ignore any and all advice because you believe in your doctor, then one day after starting a protocol you wonder if your doctor should find the cause?

By all means keep treating random symptoms though. I mean, he IS a doctor.

lowTinTX · August 19, 2011, 3:10pm

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
LowTinTX: Jesus Christ dude…you are on the first day and already considering quitting? You honestly should get your head examined by a psychiatrist man…you seem to have some sort of inability to commit or fear of commitment or something…

You didn’t get gyno after one day of using androgel…the pain in your nipple/chest area is all in your head…

Your doctor was unable to figure out the cause of your low T (this is why you started this thread a month ago, remember?). Most docs will not be able to identify the cause of your low T, even fewer will be able to fix it. You will spend a long time chasing your tail.

But do whatever you think is right. It is probably time for me to back out of this thread as I end up face palming myself every time I read it.

[/quote]

Perhaps this is the wrong site to come to for not only information but also support and encouragement.
About the gynecomastia- I already have it- I don’t think I’d get it from one day of using it, but have read a lot about transdermal T gels having a higher conversion to E2 than say an injection. Like I said I know it won’t happen over one day- but I don’t want to be on a path to potentially making things worse.

I understand about them not likely being able to find a cause- but at age 28 I don’t know if I would want to commit to rubbing this sticky smelly shit on my shoulder every day until I’m dead. Injections may be the answer if in fact TRT is the right path I should be on.

Sorry to frustrate you- I am not educated on this topic and there are a lot of different places to read on the subject, but not many get into a lot of detail in laymen’s terms.

lowTinTX · August 19, 2011, 3:16pm

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

You honestly should get your head examined by a psychiatrist man…you seem to have some sort of inability to commit or fear of commitment or something…

[/quote]

I think carefully approaching a serious potentially life long treatment is worth having a hesitant feeling.

iroczinoz · August 19, 2011, 3:47pm

[quote]lowTinTX wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
LowTinTX: Jesus Christ dude…you are on the first day and already considering quitting? You honestly should get your head examined by a psychiatrist man…you seem to have some sort of inability to commit or fear of commitment or something…

You didn’t get gyno after one day of using androgel…the pain in your nipple/chest area is all in your head…

Your doctor was unable to figure out the cause of your low T (this is why you started this thread a month ago, remember?). Most docs will not be able to identify the cause of your low T, even fewer will be able to fix it. You will spend a long time chasing your tail.

But do whatever you think is right. It is probably time for me to back out of this thread as I end up face palming myself every time I read it.

[/quote]

Perhaps this is the wrong site to come to for not only information but also support and encouragement.
About the gynecomastia- I already have it- I don’t think I’d get it from one day of using it, but have read a lot about transdermal T gels having a higher conversion to E2 than say an injection. Like I said I know it won’t happen over one day- but I don’t want to be on a path to potentially making things worse.

I understand about them not likely being able to find a cause- but at age 28 I don’t know if I would want to commit to rubbing this sticky smelly shit on my shoulder every day until I’m dead. Injections may be the answer if in fact TRT is the right path I should be on.

Sorry to frustrate you- I am not educated on this topic and there are a lot of different places to read on the subject, but not many get into a lot of detail in laymen’s terms. [/quote]

I can’t talk from personal experience but just reading about androgel, it is something I would not even consider. If it was the only method available I would take it, but since you can have injections instead to me it is a no brainier. To me it sounds like you hate the fact of applying androgel. So if I was you I would dump that stuff and switch over to injections immediately.

Guys on here try to help the best they can and offer advice the best they can. From what I can see there is better information on here from the boys then what you will get from a doctor.

If you want to go back to feeling crap then you can stop your protocol now. If having kids might come up down the road take the advice that has been given. There are ways to avoid problems.

It all boils down to you, do you want to feel good and live a good life? Or do you want to feel miserable and go through the motions?

There are so many benefits of having higher amounts of testosterone which you also have to take into consideration.

lowTinTX · August 19, 2011, 4:09pm

It sounds like the people here know what they’re talking about- but I can’t take everything I read on here to heart when I know NOTHING about the people posting these replies.
I know my doctor is one of the most respected and top doctors in Dallas, and he been practicing Endocrinology for many years. With all due respect I can’t look at a username and avatar and know “this guy knows what he is talking about”.
Not to discredit anyones wisdom on here- I just have to approach this intelligently, and weigh what I read from a forum from people I don’t know- against what a highly accredited doctor, whom I do know, tells me.

Of course I want to feel great- which today I’m feeling pretty good again, minus allergies/head cold whatever it is… A little bit more energy than normal (however again this could be placebo effect- the mind is pretty powerful).
I don’t think we’ll want more kids but it’s impossible to predict how we’ll feel in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc. That being said- the doctor told me the testicles resume production after stopping TRT, it just takes some time. I’m getting the feeling you guys think this is incorrect?

As for gel vs injections, I’m on a 3 month trial now. If I continue to feel better and better and I notice improvement in muscle development and other areas I’ve felt were lacking at that time I’ll discuss my options for T gel vs injections. I certainly think injections (if self administered) would be less inconvenient than rubbing sticky gel all over my shoulders- at least in the long haul.

Thanks for the reply iroczinoz.

lowTinTX · August 19, 2011, 4:10pm

Oh- and not that it’s much different to my knowledge, but the doctor has me on Testim- not Androgel. Just fyi.

scj119 · August 19, 2011, 6:34pm

[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
It sounds like the people here know what they’re talking about- but I can’t take everything I read on here to heart when I know NOTHING about the people posting these replies.
I know my doctor is one of the most respected and top doctors in Dallas, and he been practicing Endocrinology for many years. With all due respect I can’t look at a username and avatar and know “this guy knows what he is talking about”.
Not to discredit anyones wisdom on here- I just have to approach this intelligently, and weigh what I read from a forum from people I don’t know- against what a highly accredited doctor, whom I do know, tells me.

Of course I want to feel great- which today I’m feeling pretty good again, minus allergies/head cold whatever it is… A little bit more energy than normal (however again this could be placebo effect- the mind is pretty powerful).
I don’t think we’ll want more kids but it’s impossible to predict how we’ll feel in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc. That being said- the doctor told me the testicles resume production after stopping TRT, it just takes some time. I’m getting the feeling you guys think this is incorrect?

As for gel vs injections, I’m on a 3 month trial now. If I continue to feel better and better and I notice improvement in muscle development and other areas I’ve felt were lacking at that time I’ll discuss my options for T gel vs injections. I certainly think injections (if self administered) would be less inconvenient than rubbing sticky gel all over my shoulders- at least in the long haul.

Thanks for the reply iroczinoz.

[/quote]

My point is if I take time out of my day to read your situation and think out a reply, and you ignore it, why would I continue to do so? It’s your choice whether you think anyone here knows what they’re talking about but why post if you aren’t gonna take the advice? It’s wasting my time to post in that scenario.

A lot of this stuff is researchable and you can look it up and decide on your own who knows more. You simply have to do the legwork for yourself that many of us have done for our own health issues.

If your testes are incapable of producing enough T on their own now, why would their production be better after doing TRT? You wouldn’t be here if your system was capable of working on its own. Personally I think there are a bunch of tests you need to run before you decide TRT is the right solution, but you’ve chosen to ignore them.

By the way… even if I did know nothing at all and was making up terms… what harm could it do to just have more stuff tested? I’m not telling you to put anything in your body, just to find out more info before you do. That’s generally good advice for any aspect of life.

lowTinTX · August 19, 2011, 10:09pm

[quote]scj119 wrote:
My point is if I take time out of my day to read your situation and think out a reply, and you ignore it, why would I continue to do so? It’s your choice whether you think anyone here knows what they’re talking about but why post if you aren’t gonna take the advice? It’s wasting my time to post in that scenario.
[/quote]

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again- I’m not ignoring it. The doctor said everything else is in normal range (aside from T) and therefore no further testing was required. Believe me I kind of want more tests done but I can’t print out a lab sheet and turn it in. If I could you bet I’d have had several labs done by now.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
If your testes are incapable of producing enough T on their own now, why would their production be better after doing TRT? You wouldn’t be here if your system was capable of working on its own. Personally I think there are a bunch of tests you need to run before you decide TRT is the right solution, but you’ve chosen to ignore them.

[/quote]

I’ve never asked, assumed, or even implied that their production would be better after TRT (that doesn’t make sense). The only thing I ever had concern over is whether they’ll bounce back to where they were before (after the 3 months), not slingshot back up to a higher level- I’m not that naive.
And I didn’t ignore them- my doctor didn’t find any more tests necessary at this time. Both of them. Like I said, the tests I run are dictated by the doctor. I can’t write them myself.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
By the way… even if I did know nothing at all and was making up terms… what harm could it do to just have more stuff tested? I’m not telling you to put anything in your body, just to find out more info before you do. That’s generally good advice for any aspect of life.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone on here is “making up terms” as you think I do. Some people have a basic understanding of things, but don’t have a complete understanding of all of the variables. In this case, obviously the endocrine system is a very complex one- and I have no way of knowing who here actually FULLY understands everything. I do the best I can to absorb the information I’m given by miscellaneous sources, compile them in my brain, and kind of average them out to what is the most consistent.

I in no way have meant to offend or belittle anyone’s wisdom or knowledge on the subject- I just have to take what I can get and do my best with it. Don’t feel like you’ve wasted your time, because I’ve spent many hours looking up the terms and hormones and tests you all have mentioned and tried to understand from other sources how they all work together.

Let me ask you (and others) this:
Should I immediately stop taking Testim and find another doctor in my area to run more labs and do more investigation on this- or should I run with the Testim for the 3 months and see where I am then?
I doubt after 2 applications I’ve done anything that is damaging to my balls or levels that won’t bounce back to normal in a week or so.

scj119 · August 24, 2011, 1:50am

I don’t know that you should immediately stop… may as well find out if it works at this point.

But, I would start doing some research on some new docs just to see what’s out there.

lowTinTX · August 24, 2011, 2:21am

[quote]scj119 wrote:
I don’t know that you should immediately stop… may as well find out if it works at this point.

But, I would start doing some research on some new docs just to see what’s out there.[/quote]

Thanks. My 3rd application when I was applying it kind of burned and some skin kind of peeled off. (felt exactly like applying aloe on a couple day old sunburn)

I noticed a slight increase in energy. Overall felt mentally better- a bit happier and carefree (nothing night and day, but a subtle difference)
My man boobs felt a bit sore each day on it. Not painful but slightly sore. I know that’s not a clear indication that they were growing, but enough to make me wonder what was going on.

Day 4 I missed my dose and decided I’d stop TRT (since I wasn’t far into it) and do more research on doctors.
I plan to call my GP and tell him all the tests I want to run.
Cortisol
FSH
LH
Total T
Free T
E2
Prolactin
TSH and everything thyroid related (T3 and T4 free and total)

Going to see if he can write up 3 of those labs- and do them 1-2 weeks apart to get an average number for a baseline.
Then go from there…

I called a compounding pharmacy and got the names of 2 doctors who regularly write scripts for HRT. Plan to call a couple for compounding pharmacies to get more names to work with.

I’m in no hurry to rush into a potentially life long treatment. In the mean time I’m going to try and get more sleep, eat healthier and if I can get some energy back up- exercise some too!

I know some of you are frustrated with me for not taking your advice- but I’m going to try! Any other tests I’m missing- or am I even going overkill with this?

Thanks for your support and wisdom guys.

scj119 · August 24, 2011, 2:39pm

I don’t know if total t4/total t3 are necessary.

If you really are looking for every test you can possibly get all at once, you can add Reverse T3 and Ferritin to thyroid labs (typically the next thing to get tested after FT3/FT4/TSH).

Also, if you want to add to sex hormones, you can add DHEA-S (precursor to test) and DHT (product of T that is critical for libido and sexual function).

You have a good list of mandatory tests, but if your insurance is paying for it then RT3/ferritin/DHT/DHEA-S can help paint a more complete picture.

Make sure blood is drawn at 8am (for a meaningful cortisol reading).

lowTinTX · August 24, 2011, 3:46pm

[quote]scj119 wrote:
I don’t know if total t4/total t3 are necessary.

If you really are looking for every test you can possibly get all at once, you can add Reverse T3 and Ferritin to thyroid labs (typically the next thing to get tested after FT3/FT4/TSH).

Also, if you want to add to sex hormones, you can add DHEA-S (precursor to test) and DHT (product of T that is critical for libido and sexual function).

You have a good list of mandatory tests, but if your insurance is paying for it then RT3/ferritin/DHT/DHEA-S can help paint a more complete picture.

Make sure blood is drawn at 8am (for a meaningful cortisol reading).[/quote]

Thanks. Since sexual function is not a problem for me (aside from lower libido than 10 years ago, which I’m fine with) should I still have the DHT tested (does it have impact on anything else?)

I really hope my GP will just write up these labs, and even more so I hope my insurance will cover it. If not- it could be well over a grand I’d imagine per test… The Estradiol alone I was told is 200 bucks without insurance. Eek!

Anyway- thanks for the additional things I should potentially have looked at. Even though I don’t fully understand HOW these all are linked- I know that they are to some degree. Having a thorough lab should help when I visit any other doctors I find in my research.

Thanks again.

scj119 · August 24, 2011, 7:39pm