What did you do to lower your E2?
I’ve given my recs for next tests, but I’d consider your FT4 more “low range” than “mid range” (which is how retinoid characterized it)… it could stand to be a bit higher, though it’s more of a potential problem than a certain problem. Need Free T3 to decide that.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
What did you do to lower your E2?
I’ve given my recs for next tests, but I’d consider your FT4 more “low range” than “mid range” (which is how retinoid characterized it)… it could stand to be a bit higher, though it’s more of a potential problem than a certain problem. Need Free T3 to decide that.[/quote]
I didn’t change anything in between the 2 tests. I was told the levels fluctuate, so I guess the first test was a bad day and the second a good day. Question is on average do I have more good days or bad days?
About T3 and T4 and conversions and cortisol- I’m sorry but I have no idea what all that is. What is T3 and T4? Is it a type of Testosterone?
Something that confuses me- my dad is on Androgel, has been for about 10 years or so. He said he thinks his T was around 300 something. Well 10 years ago he was about 48. I’m 28… considering T levels only get lower, you’d think I’d be a candidate to consider treatment for SOMETHING. No?
I haven’t heard back from my endo yet, but the nurse said it’s on his desk and he’s circled things and wrote normal, low normal, and is confident he won’t be doing any type of treatment.
If I’m not treated, and I’m considered “normal” are all of these symptoms just a coincidence? And if so- how in the heck do I get energy back? Every day I feel like I’m dragging.
Just made an appointment with the Dr to follow up and ask more questions. Also making an appointment with my GP and another endo for a second opinion…
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
What did you do to lower your E2?
I’ve given my recs for next tests, but I’d consider your FT4 more “low range” than “mid range” (which is how retinoid characterized it)… it could stand to be a bit higher, though it’s more of a potential problem than a certain problem. Need Free T3 to decide that.[/quote]
I didn’t change anything in between the 2 tests. I was told the levels fluctuate, so I guess the first test was a bad day and the second a good day. Question is on average do I have more good days or bad days?
About T3 and T4 and conversions and cortisol- I’m sorry but I have no idea what all that is. What is T3 and T4? Is it a type of Testosterone?
Something that confuses me- my dad is on Androgel, has been for about 10 years or so. He said he thinks his T was around 300 something. Well 10 years ago he was about 48. I’m 28… considering T levels only get lower, you’d think I’d be a candidate to consider treatment for SOMETHING. No?
I haven’t heard back from my endo yet, but the nurse said it’s on his desk and he’s circled things and wrote normal, low normal, and is confident he won’t be doing any type of treatment.
If I’m not treated, and I’m considered “normal” are all of these symptoms just a coincidence? And if so- how in the heck do I get energy back? Every day I feel like I’m dragging.
Just made an appointment with the Dr to follow up and ask more questions. Also making an appointment with my GP and another endo for a second opinion…
[/quote]
For me…I attribute taking extra zinc (90mg/day), magnesium (1-4grams every other night), iodine (15mg a day) and vitamin d (5-15,000IUs) for increasing my testosterone from 216 to 466ng/dl. The iodine helped with the energy the most. If the doctor will not work with you, then go to a new doctor…However, maybe iodine will help you as it helps ‘cure’ estrogen dominance (it is actually used to treat fibrocystic breast disease which leads to breast cancer often times and is dependent on estrogen usually). Also iodine is needed for your thyroid. If your doctor does nothing, I would go to another doctor, however you do NOT want to just start off with androgel. You are young and most likely don’t have testicular failure meaning there is something else going on causing your low hormones.
These are very common vitamin and mineral deficiencies and are none toxic so I would take a multivitamin, 4,000IUs of vitamin D, take magnesium (at least 100-200%) and buy IODORAL online. It is about 20 dollars on amazon right now. Just try this, see how you feel while waiting for the doctors. If this stuff gives you the energy you crave then you will be able to function better in order to solve these other problems (which may improve with these supplements). But this is just a suggestion and it may not work for you but my guess is the iodine will help you especially since fatigue is such a symptom for you (iodine really gave me a burst of energy and there are hundreds of others that report being helped with iodine in the energy department).
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
What did you do to lower your E2?
I’ve given my recs for next tests, but I’d consider your FT4 more “low range” than “mid range” (which is how retinoid characterized it)… it could stand to be a bit higher, though it’s more of a potential problem than a certain problem. Need Free T3 to decide that.[/quote]
I didn’t change anything in between the 2 tests. I was told the levels fluctuate, so I guess the first test was a bad day and the second a good day. Question is on average do I have more good days or bad days?
About T3 and T4 and conversions and cortisol- I’m sorry but I have no idea what all that is. What is T3 and T4? Is it a type of Testosterone?
Something that confuses me- my dad is on Androgel, has been for about 10 years or so. He said he thinks his T was around 300 something. Well 10 years ago he was about 48. I’m 28… considering T levels only get lower, you’d think I’d be a candidate to consider treatment for SOMETHING. No?
I haven’t heard back from my endo yet, but the nurse said it’s on his desk and he’s circled things and wrote normal, low normal, and is confident he won’t be doing any type of treatment.
If I’m not treated, and I’m considered “normal” are all of these symptoms just a coincidence? And if so- how in the heck do I get energy back? Every day I feel like I’m dragging.
Just made an appointment with the Dr to follow up and ask more questions. Also making an appointment with my GP and another endo for a second opinion…
[/quote]
Do some research. I’m more interested in a two-way convo than spoonfeeding everything. It’s YOUR health and you need to be proactive.
T4 is Thyroxine (the hormone output by your thyroid). This breaks down into (horrible spelling alert, as I’m not gonna look this up) triiodothyrodine (T3), and Reverse T3. T3 is responsible for metabolism and energy… Reverse T3 is the opposite. Basically T3 is your gas pedal and RT3 is your break.
They’re not part of the testosterone chain, they’re thyroid hormones.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Do some research…[/quote]
I’ve been trying but I can’t find a good resource for this stuff.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
They’re not part of the testosterone chain, they’re thyroid hormones.
[/quote]
So I should get the T3 and T4 checked because they somehow effect my T levels?
I should the first test had a T3 test.
I’ll try and find a better source so I can understand it better, but like I said it’s not an easy find and anything on the internet you need to take with a grain of salt.
Went to my GP today. He said my levels are normal and I look like a normal man, “deep voice” (not that deep…) beard (pretty thin if you ask me) and overall healthy.
The thing is I feel one way, my numbers are low, and I’m “normal”. Isn’t this kind of a gray area? It’s not like cancer where you either have it or you don’t.
Sure I’m in “normal” range- but would I benefit from higher T levels? Would I feel alive again? Would I have the energy and desire to do things I haven’t done in a long time like take my son to the playground?
I’m really lost. Maybe he’s right and I just need to get in a groove. But the numbers and everywhere I read says my levels are pretty low, even for a much older man in his 50’s.
Advice?
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
Went to my GP today. He said my levels are normal and I look like a normal man, “deep voice” (not that deep…) beard (pretty thin if you ask me) and overall healthy.
The thing is I feel one way, my numbers are low, and I’m “normal”. Isn’t this kind of a gray area? It’s not like cancer where you either have it or you don’t.
Sure I’m in “normal” range- but would I benefit from higher T levels? Would I feel alive again? Would I have the energy and desire to do things I haven’t done in a long time like take my son to the playground?
I’m really lost. Maybe he’s right and I just need to get in a groove. But the numbers and everywhere I read says my levels are pretty low, even for a much older man in his 50’s.
Advice?[/quote]
I gave you advice and so did others on here I don’t know what else we can say. Your doctor is stupid.
You can learn a lot just by reading the stickies as well as the various case threads here.
I might have missed it - how old are you? Your test is normal for like an 80 year old man, which is why it’s “in range”… but it is not normal - and certainly not optimal - for you.
Thyroid is important because getting more testosterone puts additional demands on your body’s metabolism and adrenals… if they aren’t strong enough to support the demand of additional T, then taking T won’t actually help.
[quote]Retinoid wrote:
I gave you advice and so did others on here I don’t know what else we can say. Your doctor is stupid.[/quote]
That’s not helpful to say my doctor I’ve been going to for years is stupid.
How am I supposed to argue with his logic when I haven’t been through a day of med school and he’s been practicing for more than 20 years.
Also- what gives you the right to call any doctor stupid? Not trying to be rude, but not many doctors are “stupid” as much as they are careful and perhaps not experts on certain areas of medicine.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
You can learn a lot just by reading the stickies as well as the various case threads here.
I might have missed it - how old are you? Your test is normal for like an 80 year old man, which is why it’s “in range”… but it is not normal - and certainly not optimal - for you.
Thyroid is important because getting more testosterone puts additional demands on your body’s metabolism and adrenals… if they aren’t strong enough to support the demand of additional T, then taking T won’t actually help.[/quote]
I’m only 28 years old.
I’m not sure if it makes a difference but both of these tests were done in the afternoon, around 1-3pm. The first was closer to 1 and the second closer to 3 or 4pm. I asked the doctor if it needs to be in the morning and he said no, so I took it when it was convenient for me.
I explained that I’ve read that men my age should be higher to feel good and be in optimal range and basically I was just told I was in range and no action is needed.
I kept stressing that I feel very drained by the end of the day, but none of it stuck. He didn’t ask about my libido or anything.
I don’t want to mess with TRT if I don’t need it- but you guys and other sources I read seem to think my number is low, where medical DOCTORS think it’s fine. What benefit do they get out of telling me I’m fine if I’m really not?
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
[quote]Retinoid wrote:
I gave you advice and so did others on here I don’t know what else we can say. Your doctor is stupid.[/quote]
That’s not helpful to say my doctor I’ve been going to for years is stupid.
How am I supposed to argue with his logic when I haven’t been through a day of med school and he’s been practicing for more than 20 years.
Also- what gives you the right to call any doctor stupid? Not trying to be rude, but not many doctors are “stupid” as much as they are careful and perhaps not experts on certain areas of medicine.
[/quote]
He said you don’t have a testosterone problem because your voice is low and you have facial hair…that is stupid!
[quote]Retinoid wrote:
He said you don’t have a testosterone problem because your voice is low and you have facial hair…that is stupid!
[/quote]
That was just him reassuring me that my symptoms may not be related to low T. He said everyone is built differently and that’s why there is a range for tests. He said since I’m in range, I shouldn’t have to worry about it.
I think what it comes down to is doctors don’t want to take action unless it’s a necessity. Since I’m in “normal range” and I’m not suffering from bad symptoms, just some fatigue, lower libido, anxiety and depression, (which none could be because of low T) that he doesn’t feel that it is necessary. Whether he would consider it to be optional and/or beneficial remains to be known because I didn’t want to push it on him.
I really think this is a gray area. No, I don’t require treatment for low T. Could I benefit from more? Maybe. And maybe I just need a doctor who is willing to explore that as an option to see if it makes me feel more youthful and energetic.
So why in the hell are you here if you are just going to ignore all the advice you’ve been given, argue with the people that have taken the time to give you their thoughts, and then not do a single thing about any of it?
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
I’m not sure if it makes a difference but both of these tests were done in the afternoon, around 1-3pm. The first was closer to 1 and the second closer to 3 or 4pm. I asked the doctor if it needs to be in the morning and he said no, so I took it when it was convenient for me.
[/quote]
^^This is stupid…your doctor does not know about hormones…I’m sure he is great at listening to your heartbeat and prescribing you antibiotics when you have common illnesses like strep throat, but he is essentially clueless where hormones are concerned.
And if you continue to listen to him, despite all the evidence to the contrary just because 'weeeeeeeeehhhhh he went to medical school" then I have to wonder if you are not stupid as well…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
So why in the hell are you here if you are just going to ignore all the advice you’ve been given, argue with the people that have taken the time to give you their thoughts, and then not do a single thing about any of it?
[/quote]
I’m not ignoring it and certainly not arguing with anyone. I can’t order my own tests from a lab- I’ve already asked. If the doctor doesn’t want to order them what am I supposed to do? Taking the advice would be to get additional tests done- I’m trying but the doctor I saw yesterday kept insisting I’m fine.
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^This is stupid…your doctor does not know about hormones…I’m sure he is great at listening to your heartbeat and prescribing you antibiotics when you have common illnesses like strep throat, but he is essentially clueless where hormones are concerned.
And if you continue to listen to him, despite all the evidence to the contrary just because 'weeeeeeeeehhhhh he went to medical school" then I have to wonder if you are not stupid as well…[/quote]
I don’t believe my doctor 100%, but as a smart person I have to weigh information given over the internet by non-doctors against information given to me by my doctor. I believe my T is “in normal range” however not “optimal” for my age. “Normal”, like I was saying, is a gray area in the way the labs give the ranges. They don’t take age into consideration.
I believe my doctor is right that I don’t NEED any action to be taken, but I don’t believe that my life couldn’t improve by exploring it further and getting my T to a more appropriate level for my age.
I’m sorry if I seem stupid to you- but I’m just new to this whole topic, and unsure how to confront doctors about exploring it further when they’re convinced I’m fine…
To keep things clear I haven’t heard back from the endocrinologist who ordered these labs. My GP said I’m fine. The endo may want to look further, but more than likely, especially since he hasn’t called back, he’ll tell me I’m “fine”. I scheduled a follow up for next week with him.
Since I’m uneducated- if anyone who is educated on this topic could help me come up with some precise questions I’d really appreciate it.
[quote]lowTinTX wrote:
I’m not sure if it makes a difference but both of these tests were done in the afternoon, around 1-3pm. The first was closer to 1 and the second closer to 3 or 4pm. I asked the doctor if it needs to be in the morning and he said no, so I took it when it was convenient for me.
[/quote]
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^This is stupid…your doctor does not know about hormones…[/quote]
I’m guessing this means tests should be done first thing in the morning?
If so- should I have the tests redone- or point out to any other endocrinologists I see that my labs were taken during the day so they can approximate (if possible) my baseline T level?
Thnx.
Low I never suggested you get TRT. TRT should only be prescribed right off the bat if the person has testicular failure. There are many causes of low testosterone…hypothyroidism, high prolactin, high estrogen (which may be lowering LH/FSH), testosterone converting into estradiol. My doctor (who is a family practice guy and is just a resident) said I would need TRT most likely which I knew was not the case. He doesn’t know much about hormones either (but more than your doctor does as he at least knows to test for hormones in the morning) but he LISTENS and that is worth more than an endocrinologist who doesn’t listen. I have had bad experiences with doctors, so I stuck with a doctor that is open minded and doesn’t know much about my condition verses getting a horrible doctor.
A doctor that says ‘oh you are in range so it is fine’ is a doctor that should be RAN AWAY FROM. They are right, if you had a LIFE THREATENING situation or your testicles were totally failing, you would have labs way off the range. However often times, being in the low end of a range is bad FOR YOU if you are having symptoms. If you are having symptoms of hypothyroidism (as an example) and your tsh is only slightly elevated and your t4 and t3 are very low normal, most doctors wouldn’t think twice about saying that person’s thyroid is totally fine. THEY ARE WRONG. Sorry. You are right we didn’t go to med school but we know a HELL of a lot more about this than your doctor does. Reread the thread or just follow what your doctor said I don’t care but I gave you my 2 cents. Think for yourself it is your health.
You need many more tests… many of which have already been recommended in this thread… before you decide if TRT is right or necessary for you.
Read the “Finding a good doc” sticky. Most docs are concerned with 2 things: 1) keeping you alive (supobtimal T is not fatal, so it does not behoove them to research it in great detail), and 2) making money (which means fixing short term problems and fixing symptoms, not necessarily fixing underlying causes).
The search for a good doc is not an easy one. Follow the sticky advice.
Thanks.
I’ve been reading a bit about hypothyroidism. Someone mentioned perhaps subclinical hypothyroidism.
I found on an article about it that 95% of healthy individuals have TSH levels below 2.5 which means the labs should adjust the range to top out at 2.5 instead of 4.5.
Mine was 2.17.
If in fact I have hypothyroidism would that have any impact on my T levels if treated?
My mom has hypothyroidism so if this condition runs in families I guess it wouldn’t hurt to look into that further and urge the doctor to run more tests.
I guess if the doctor says I’m normal, I’ll ask why my T is at the bottom of the scale. I suppose he could just say everyone is built differently, but I’m not sure that’s a good enough answer.
Thanks for the tips- and I have a feeling it will be a while before this is on the track to normalcy.
On another note- according to my limited number of tests- if I had gyne surgery, do you think I’d have regrowth or is it likely that mine was just caused from even more out of whack hormones durning puberty?
Thanks…
Testosterone places a large demand on your body, you need a healthy thyroid to support that. Optimal TSH is usually close to 1.0, >2.0 is generally a problem, >3.0 is a bigger problem. So yeah, if you’re hypothyroid the body won’t produce as much T because it knows it can’t support it.
Proper cortisol function is necessary to support both thyroid AND testosterone though, hence the recs for cortisol tests.
I am not knowledgeable about that surgery.
Ok so I’ll see if he can check my thyroid levels in addition to cortisol.
Gyne = gynecomastia = man boobs.
They’re not really boobs, but enough to feel uneasy about…