Knife Control

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squating_bear wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Jewbacca: Not gonna respond to most of the bullshit you wrote, since it was mostly putting words into my mouth or an attempt to twist them into something they weren’t. That’s very noble of you–its pretty clear you are a scumbag lawyer.

But a couple I wouldn’t respect myself if I didn’t at least make an effort to respond to:

The day before you posted this, about 10 miles from my house…

MA has some pretty strict guns laws already, and look what happened.

I’m sorry but one shootout and manhunt is enough for me to never want to lessen my odds of self defense. [/quote]

Good to see that all is well with you man.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Good to see that all is well with you man.[/quote]

Yeah things are good.

Puts some shit in perspective, and we were far enough away, yet close enough, were we felt safe. As in, if he got away he would run futher than our house, and if he was still on foot, he wouldn’t make it this far… If that makes any sense.

I’m pretty tired of the internet slueths, truthers though. Of course the fucking government isn’t giving the media the whole story, no shit. That would be like playing poker with all your cards face up… And of course when they feed you misinformation they are doing it to catch other people. Good lord conspricay nuts are annoying.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squating_bear wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Jewbacca: Not gonna respond to most of the bullshit you wrote, since it was mostly putting words into my mouth or an attempt to twist them into something they weren’t. That’s very noble of you–its pretty clear you are a scumbag lawyer.

But a couple I wouldn’t respect myself if I didn’t at least make an effort to respond to:

The day before you posted this, about 10 miles from my house…

MA has some pretty strict guns laws already, and look what happened.

I’m sorry but one shootout and manhunt is enough for me to never want to lessen my odds of self defense. [/quote]

Glad to see you back.

And your sentiment were my thoughts back in 1992 during the LA riots.

The pro-gun control people take the position from a NIMBY point of view, but when it’s just a sneeze away from your front door, you must assume a position of being ready for trouble, instead of hoping it does not come your way.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:
He ignored multiple requests for additional security[/quote]

This isn’t really true. The security requests never went beyond a mid-level official in the State Department (who I believe remains unidentified). They appear not to have even come close to Clinton’s desk. We have literally hundreds of embassies and consulates across the world; security requests are generally not even cabinet-level. So Obama oversees people who oversee people who oversee people who ignored or denied the Libya security requests. That’s not nothing, but it’s not nearly like what partisans tried to make it out to be in the fall (for obvious reasons).[/quote]

When taking into consideration that the United States had contractors in Libya actively tracking down weapon stockpiles to destroy them and that American agencies were active in Libya it’s safe to assume Obama knew how dangerous it’s out there and had a good idea of what’s going on even if he didn’t get alerted of every request for additional security. Not only that but I’m sure he knew what’s going on in Libya period. Is he entirely responsible? No, but that’s why things like plausible deniability exist.
[/quote]

If not a single request for security ever reached him, I’d say his direct responsibility is minimal.[/quote]

Do you think it’d be unrealistic for the President to have no knowledge of what’s going on in Libya during that 11 month span of time from when Gaddafi was killed to when the Benghazi attack happened? Since AQ affiliates were and are active in the country and weapons stockpiles were up for grabs it’s safe to assume he’d know maintaining a presence there’s inherently dangerous. Even after he’s warned of the attack he removed himself from the decision making process and put it in the hands of Leon Panetta just as he quit making decisions during the Maersk Alabama incident.

There’s a tremendous failure to act by everyone involved and it ended up costing lives.[/quote]

Do I think it’s unrealistic for the president not to have been aware of the security requests? Not at all. Firstly, that’s been the testimony of everyone involved. Things like that work their way up the chain–otherwise, there wouldn’t be enough hours in the day for an American president to get through a single foreign policy session, let alone the much larger foreign/domestic/political bolus that he has to swallow and digest by lights out.

Regarding the incident having been a tremendous failure: yes, but in a qualified sense. Many things certainly went wrong, from the CIA–which had a “secret arrangement” for emergency security with the consulate–taking 50 minutes to respond and not returning from the battle with Stevens (or his body) to the failure of the Libyan militia to the Pentagon’s sluggishness and on down the line. Of course the president, as the overseer of it all, doesn’t escape blame. But, then again, we’re talking about the unfortunate deaths of a couple of guys with very dangerous jobs. At the risk of sounding callous, this wasn’t the anomalous mess that everybody pretended it to be at the time–though the fact that it was a high-level diplomat made it remarkable in the denotative sense of the term. I can think of thousands of Americans who’ve been fucked harder and more directly by American presidents who aren’t named Barack Obama–and within the past decade. You show me a president without the blood of his own countrymen on his hands and I’ll show you my oceanfront villa in Denver.

And more to the point, the whole thing doesn’t come close to justifying the dumb statement above (not spoken by you) about Islamic terrorism not being “a priority” for Obama.[/quote]

It isn’t so much singling Obama out. No President has really been tough on Islamic terrorism, even Bush really wasn’t and some people like to claim he’s. Even when people were supposed to be held accountable for Benghazi it’s a bipartisan effort to tiptoe around everything and only try to make the other party look bad, really trying to put the blame on somebody starts raising questions that no one wants answered.

I think about it in the sense that ultimately the President is making decisions in one way or another, the President however rarely wants to be held accountable for what America’s agencies or military does. That’s why I brought up plausible deniability, the very existence of it’s to keep the blame away from the President and keep it contained to the CIA. There’s a strong possibility that a light footprint was favorable in Benghazi, I just don’t think his administration put much thought or effort into addressing the issues with Libya. Specifically even operating there when the British had pulled out due to being attacked.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:
I think they’ve been primarily for political purposes rather than dealing with Islamic terrorism.[/quote]

Everything to do with Islamic terrorism is political by definition. This was true of Bush and it’s true of Obama.

In the end, it sounds like you’re searching for things not to like. “This or that was good but it was political,” “drones kill bad guys but they piss other bad guys off too.” I will refer you to the third presidential debate as evidence of what I’m saying here–he’s done decently well against the bad guys, and there’s no way around it.[/quote]

There’s a lot left to be desired, that goes for many Presidents. And what do you consider doing well? The prospect of killing UBL wasn’t something Obama committed to 100%, he went back and forth on it. And if it were purely to kill the bad guys why would he use it for his reelection strategy? Bush didn’t exactly say “On my orders I sent Delta to Tora Bora and decimated Al Qaeda in an area the Soviets were soundly defeated”, the victory at Tora Bora is one of the greatest victories in both the Afghanistan and Iraq war combined too.

Drone strikes in the tribal region of Pakistan have been a tremendous recruiter, relying on them so heavily has been shortsighted and purely to play terrorist Whack-A-Mole. The United States doesn’t have a strong relationship with Pakistan either, Pakistan will never openly support America. It’s just mutually beneficial since domestic terrorism is an issue for them, the aid packages don’t hurt either. If being strong against Islamic terrorism was the main concern then putting a local face on the operation and putting a JSOC unit or ODA out there with the Pakistanis would be a better option. Then American can eliminate the Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters in the region and the Pakistanis can get the glory. I think Pakistan would have loved the chance to take credit for successful raids, it’d increase faith in their military capabilities and keep perceived American involvement to a minimum.