Kirk Cameron, YOU FAIL

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

I’m going to have to ask you to show the references…and references to “the four corners of the earth” don’t count because that’s an expression we still use today. I’ve never heard of this.

There are none.

There is nothing more absurd, ironic and hypocritical than folks who don’t know the Bible spouting off as if they do, perpetuating hear-say while condemning so called biblical mythology.

Agreed. They are so bent on attacking it, any crap they hear through word of mouth that allows them to hate it more somehow becomes fact.

The earth is flat as a bible verse? I doubt he even heard this about the bible from anywhere.[/quote]

Agreed x2.

Strangely, Isaiah 40:22 says: “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth…”

Edit: for contextual purposes, in the verse I quoted, the prophet was speaking of the awesome power of God in relation to the idols that mankind tends to make to worship instead of worshipping the true God…showing the foolishness of idolatry. Nothing is comparable to Him, least of all any idols made by mans hands.

Sounds NOTHING like a flat earth, eh?

In fact, as Isaiah was written somewhere around 740-700BC, this would predate any other “discovery” of the fact that the earth is round.

Edit 2: I mistyped in the chapter and verse. I think I had it on my screen but the reference bar was still set to the other verse so I copied the wrong one, but the ch/verse now matches the reference.

42

Man I hate when these deabtes come about. Any religion, and I mean ANY, requires faith. People like Kirk Cameron always go after the Saul’s of the earth. (Wasn’t Saul the Skeptical of Jesus’s followers?) The ones who always need proof. Sometimes there are things that can’t be proven. No one actually knows what the stock market will do in the next year, but we invest with faith. Religion is the same thing.

43

Kirk Cameron is a fucking douche nozzle.

44

[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?[/quote]

1 Samuel 2:8 (King James Version)

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

45

this guy has a really bad mental health. Just by looking into his eyes you know that there is something wrong with him.

That video was intellectually dishonest. ‘‘copernic, einstein, galileo believed in god’’ Those guys had trouble with the church all their lives. They had to publish after their death. and Einstein probably believed in Evolution. linking Darwin to HITLER!! lol you must be fucking kidding me.

He is trying to modify history and make ignorant people believe bunch of shit. That guy is dangerous

47

[quote]pushharder wrote:
conorh wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

1 Samuel 2:8 (King James Version)

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Then again the term, “figure of speech”, goes way beyond the comprehension of the simpleminded.

If a Stanford educated physicist in 2009 were to say, “The sunrise tomorrow will be at 6:22 a.m.,” then he should be condemned, tarred, feathered and run out of town as a complete and utter intellectual dummy, right?

I’ve said this before and will say it again, some of you pro-evolution, anti-Bible folks/agnostic/atheists are far more fervent in the practice of your religion than most Christians.[/quote]

Pusharder, you hit the nail on the head.

48

[quote]pushharder wrote:
conorh wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

1 Samuel 2:8 (King James Version)

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Then again the term, “figure of speech”, goes way beyond the comprehension of the simpleminded.

If a Stanford educated physicist in 2009 were to say, “The sunrise tomorrow will be at 6:22 a.m.,” then he should be condemned, tarred, feathered and run out of town as a complete and utter intellectual dummy, right?

I’ve said this before and will say it again, some of you pro-evolution, anti-Bible folks/agnostic/atheists are far more fervent in the practice of your religion than most Christians.[/quote]

x2

49

[quote]pushharder wrote:
conorh wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

1 Samuel 2:8 (King James Version)

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Then again the term, “figure of speech”, goes way beyond the comprehension of the simpleminded.

If a Stanford educated physicist in 2009 were to say, “The sunrise tomorrow will be at 6:22 a.m.,” then he should be condemned, tarred, feathered and run out of town as a complete and utter intellectual dummy, right?

I’ve said this before and will say it again, some of you pro-evolution, anti-Bible folks/agnostic/atheists are far more fervent in the practice of your religion than most Christians.[/quote]

I was only posting that since someone said they couldn’t find it and I recalled where it was. For once I’m not trying to be inflammatory except to say that I personally dislike Kirk Cameron.

50

[quote]pushharder wrote:
conorh wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

1 Samuel 2:8 (King James Version)

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Then again the term, “figure of speech”, goes way beyond the comprehension of the simpleminded.

If a Stanford educated physicist in 2009 were to say, “The sunrise tomorrow will be at 6:22 a.m.,” then he should be condemned, tarred, feathered and run out of town as a complete and utter intellectual dummy, right?

I’ve said this before and will say it again, some of you pro-evolution, anti-Bible folks/agnostic/atheists are far more fervent in the practice of your religion than most Christians.[/quote]

A big time x2 to Push.

And, for the record…Nothing in the Bible is “indefensible.” Only those not educated on how to study it, and those who don’t actually LISTEN (but instead like only to SPEAK) would say that the Bible has “indefensible” statements (and other such arguments).

51

[quote]Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

How does creationism differ from the notion that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around the Earth?

JMHO.

I also do believe that evolution and a higher power are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Though, I will state for the record that I am at best an agnostic.

Linette[/quote]

Got a reference for the sun revolving around the earth?

52

[quote]SRT08 wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

How does creationism differ from the notion that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around the Earth?

JMHO.

I also do believe that evolution and a higher power are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Though, I will state for the record that I am at best an agnostic.

Linette

Got a reference for the sun revolving around the earth? [/quote]

Catholic church (in history) may say that the sun revolved around the earth, but that does NOT mean the Bible said it.

As SRT08 asked: do you have a Biblical reference for this statement: “the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe.”

53

[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

What does this prove at all?

Customs were much different back then, you didn’t have sex before marriage in some cultures, it just wasn’t really allowed.

A guys sleeps with a virgin that he isn’t married to and has to pay a price, is that so different from how middle eastern cultures view things?

I still want to see verses about the earth being flat and the sun revolving around it.

By your reasoning:
“Traditions were different 2000 years ago as well, so what Jesus said is irrelevant.”

As for the earth is still (and so the sun must revolve around it):
“He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.”
“The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.”
“The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.”
would be the quotes that are relevant. The bits about the world being flat actually talk about “the ends of the earth” and the “four corners of the earth”, which are sayings, so I’d disregard them.
[/quote]
Wow, no notation on where any of those statements are located and some very loose interpretations of two other quotes. Maybe you ought to read the Bible and gain some context. Neither “the ends of the earth” nor “four corners” references the earth being flat.

54

[quote]SRT08 wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

What does this prove at all?

Customs were much different back then, you didn’t have sex before marriage in some cultures, it just wasn’t really allowed.

A guys sleeps with a virgin that he isn’t married to and has to pay a price, is that so different from how middle eastern cultures view things?

I still want to see verses about the earth being flat and the sun revolving around it.

By your reasoning:
“Traditions were different 2000 years ago as well, so what Jesus said is irrelevant.”

As for the earth is still (and so the sun must revolve around it):
“He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.”
“The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.”
“The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.”
would be the quotes that are relevant. The bits about the world being flat actually talk about “the ends of the earth” and the “four corners of the earth”, which are sayings, so I’d disregard them.

Wow, no notation on where any of those statements are located and some very loose interpretations of two other quotes. Maybe you ought to read the Bible and gain some context. Neither “the ends of the earth” nor “four corners” references the earth being flat.
[/quote]

Of course there are no notations.
Of course there are loose interpretations that are taken out of context.

(sarcasm mode on) I mean…who actually want’s to study the Bible and put things in context? Sheesh. (sarcasm mode off)

And as someone said before: “ends of the earth” and “four corners” are STILL in use today. Oh gee…

55

[quote]Stength4life wrote:
Man I hate when these deabtes come about. Any religion, and I mean ANY, requires faith. People like Kirk Cameron always go after the Saul’s of the earth. (Wasn’t Saul the Skeptical of Jesus’s followers?) The ones who always need proof. Sometimes there are things that can’t be proven. No one actually knows what the stock market will do in the next year, but we invest with faith. Religion is the same thing. [/quote]

That would be Thomas. Saul persecuted Christians.

56

[quote]crimson_lily wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Man I hate when these deabtes come about. Any religion, and I mean ANY, requires faith. People like Kirk Cameron always go after the Saul’s of the earth. (Wasn’t Saul the Skeptical of Jesus’s followers?) The ones who always need proof. Sometimes there are things that can’t be proven. No one actually knows what the stock market will do in the next year, but we invest with faith. Religion is the same thing.

That would be Thomas. Saul persecuted Christians. [/quote]

Uh, Saul actually was re-named Paul and later wrote most of the new testament, much of it as letters while in prison for being a Christian. Thomas wanted proof of the resurrection… he also was tarred and burned at the stake for his faith. I wouldn’t equate religion to the stock market as most religions come with some sort of promise for the future. The question becomes, does the message hold up enough to inspire faith in those who study it?

57

as a Christian i have to admit that creationists CAN’T win this argument. I am taking a class on logic right now and have learned of the fallacy of the Appeal to Ignorance. Basically, creationists are putting the burden of proof on evolutionists, mainly because almost the entire creationists argument is based on faith. faith is obviously not an acceptable form of argument and therefore must be tossed aside. like i said, as a Christian it is hard to be caught in the middle of all this.

58

[quote]SRT08 wrote:
crimson_lily wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Man I hate when these deabtes come about. Any religion, and I mean ANY, requires faith. People like Kirk Cameron always go after the Saul’s of the earth. (Wasn’t Saul the Skeptical of Jesus’s followers?) The ones who always need proof. Sometimes there are things that can’t be proven. No one actually knows what the stock market will do in the next year, but we invest with faith. Religion is the same thing.

That would be Thomas. Saul persecuted Christians.

Uh, Saul actually was re-named Paul and later wrote most of the new testament, much of it as letters while in prison for being a Christian. Thomas wanted proof of the resurrection… he also was tarred and burned at the stake for his faith. I wouldn’t equate religion to the stock market as most religions come with some sort of promise for the future. The question becomes, does the message hold up enough to inspire faith in those who study it?[/quote]

Um, yes, I know. He was renamed Paul after a certain trip down the road to Damascus. As MangoFighter just said, this argument is impossible to win, so I was just referring to the post I quoted as simply as possible.

59

[quote]MangoFighter wrote:
as a Christian i have to admit that creationists CAN’T win this argument. I am taking a class on logic right now and have learned of the fallacy of the Appeal to Ignorance. Basically, creationists are putting the burden of proof on evolutionists, mainly because almost the entire creationists argument is based on faith. faith is obviously not an acceptable form of argument and therefore must be tossed aside. like i said, as a Christian it is hard to be caught in the middle of all this.[/quote]

It’s simple, either denounce your faith, or accept that evolution, and all the processes that are pretty well explained through the scientific method, are just methods through which how god works.

Of course if a god is infallible why would his creations need to change…but hey, I can only help you guys out so many times.

60

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

I’m going to have to ask you to show the references…and references to “the four corners of the earth” don’t count because that’s an expression we still use today. I’ve never heard of this.

There are none.

There is nothing more absurd, ironic and hypocritical than folks who don’t know the Bible spouting off as if they do, perpetuating hear-say while condemning so called biblical mythology.

Agreed. They are so bent on attacking it, any crap they hear through word of mouth that allows them to hate it more somehow becomes fact.

The earth is flat as a bible verse? I doubt he even heard this about the bible from anywhere.

Agreed x2.

Strangely, Isaiah 42:11 says: “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth…”

Edit: for contextual purposes, in the verse I quoted, the prophet was speaking of the awesome power of God in relation to the idols that mankind tends to make to worship instead of worshipping the true God…showing the foolishness of idolatry. Nothing is comparable to Him, least of all any idols made by mans hands.

Sounds NOTHING like a flat earth, eh?

In fact, as Isaiah was written somewhere around 740-700BC, this would predate any other “discovery” of the fact that the earth is round.
[/quote]

And flat.

Which was the original claim.