Kirk Cameron, YOU FAIL

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
463

[quote]Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:

The only thing this link proves is how ignorant this guy is to true Christianity. He goes off on how ignorant the general population is because they don’t have an understanding of REAL science, but I bet you this guy has never truly studied the bible or know how to interpret it. BTW…true Christians don’t watch tv evangelists because YES they are a scam…worse than the evolution scam. He also goes on to say that we can’t know for sure in the existence of God, and then says that creationism is a scam.

True Christianity? Please, there is no true version of a fake ideal. Even assuming that the Bible is accurate, which sub-sect of Christianity is supposedly the “true” one?

The guy is absolutely right in the vid you linked.

I already stated what I believe to be true Christianity. And I said sect of Christianity, but there is only one the true one.

Who are you to declare your faith is the true one?

Are you Jesus?

And you keep harping on about not being well read in science. That’s nothing to be proud of, go pick up a book.[/quot

Why is that nothing to be proud of? Am I less of a human because I have never conducted a scientific experiment except for my limited college experience. But I see you hold yourself in pretty high esteem since you apparently have. Maybe i should immerse myself into scientific study, then I would be truly enlightened. But I just keep reading this darn bible…have you?

464

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:

The only thing this link proves is how ignorant this guy is to true Christianity. He goes off on how ignorant the general population is because they don’t have an understanding of REAL science, but I bet you this guy has never truly studied the bible or know how to interpret it. BTW…true Christians don’t watch tv evangelists because YES they are a scam…worse than the evolution scam. He also goes on to say that we can’t know for sure in the existence of God, and then says that creationism is a scam.

True Christianity? Please, there is no true version of a fake ideal. Even assuming that the Bible is accurate, which sub-sect of Christianity is supposedly the “true” one?

The guy is absolutely right in the vid you linked.

I already stated what I believe to be true Christianity. And I said sect of Christianity, but there is only one the true one.

Who are you to declare your faith is the true one?

Are you Jesus?

And you keep harping on about not being well read in science. That’s nothing to be proud of, go pick up a book.[/quot

Why is that nothing to be proud of? Am I less of a human because I have never conducted a scientific experiment except for my limited college experience. But I see you hold yourself in pretty high esteem since you apparently have. Maybe i should immerse myself into scientific study, then I would be truly enlightened. But I just keep reading this darn bible…have you?[/quote]

465

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Why is that nothing to be proud of? Am I less of a human because I have never conducted a scientific experiment except for my limited college experience. But I see you hold yourself in pretty high esteem since you apparently have. Maybe i should immerse myself into scientific study, then I would be truly enlightened. But I just keep reading this darn bible…have you?
[/quote]

I have, and nothing is stopping you from furthering your education. You obviously don’t want to, so I’m done responding to your gibberish.

466

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:

The only thing this link proves is how ignorant this guy is to true Christianity. He goes off on how ignorant the general population is because they don’t have an understanding of REAL science, but I bet you this guy has never truly studied the bible or know how to interpret it. BTW…true Christians don’t watch tv evangelists because YES they are a scam…worse than the evolution scam. He also goes on to say that we can’t know for sure in the existence of God, and then says that creationism is a scam.

True Christianity? Please, there is no true version of a fake ideal. Even assuming that the Bible is accurate, which sub-sect of Christianity is supposedly the “true” one?

The guy is absolutely right in the vid you linked.

Actually the guy is logically incoherent. You cannot acknowledge the possibility of a supernatural creator and say that creationism is disproven.

If you do acknowledge that possibility, in doing so you must also acknowledge that event could have happened at any time.

He says, science canâ??t say anything about god, then he says itâ??s scientifically proven god didnâ??t create the earth in itâ??s present state. WRONG!

He is making the same mistake Iâ??ve been saying over and over again is ridiculously stupid. Itâ??s not any more in agreement with science to say a singularity poofed into existence than the modern earth.

IF YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A SUPERNATURAL BEING, YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A RECENT CREATION. PERIOD.

It’s called logic, he should learn it.
[/quote]

Yes

467

[quote]Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Why is that nothing to be proud of? Am I less of a human because I have never conducted a scientific experiment except for my limited college experience. But I see you hold yourself in pretty high esteem since you apparently have. Maybe i should immerse myself into scientific study, then I would be truly enlightened. But I just keep reading this darn bible…have you?

I have, and nothing is stopping you from furthering your education. You obviously don’t want to, so I’m done responding to your gibberish.[/quote]

Ok. But in all honesty i would like to hear you take on the bible and please don’t just answere with, “It’s utter crap”. I agree that I could advance my education, if I made the choice to do so. However I dont see it to be the salvation that most do. And im sorry if you see me as ignorant, like I said before i never claimed to be the smartest person…i know that’s nothing to be proud of.

468

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Ok. But in all honesty i would like to hear you take on the bible and please don’t just answere with, “It’s utter crap”. I agree that I could advance my education, if I made the choice to do so. However I dont see it to be the salvation that most do. And im sorry if you see me as ignorant, like I said before i never claimed to be the smartest person…i know that’s nothing to be proud of.[/quote]

It had it’s purpose, it worked in the Bronze Age but now it’s detrimental to human civilization. It stopped being a good thing around the start of the Dark Ages.

469

It is amusing how every [insert religious sect here] sees themselves as the one true line of belief, handed down from [insert questionably historical prophet here] and everyone else as pretenders.

So do you basically believe that all the fossils in the ground were put there as a test of your faith? Philosophically speaking, there are very few things(if any) that you can absolutely know, but to use that as leverage for not accepting the truth of evolution is simply disingenuous(which means dishonest).

470

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Ok. But in all honesty i would like to hear you take on the bible and please don’t just answere with, “It’s utter crap”. I agree that I could advance my education, if I made the choice to do so. However I dont see it to be the salvation that most do. And im sorry if you see me as ignorant, like I said before i never claimed to be the smartest person…i know that’s nothing to be proud of.[/quote]

I think most educated people view the bible the same way you might view the holy books of other civilizations - as a collection of myths and stories to explain the natural world. While its authors certainly drew inspiration at times from contemporary events, it is not a historical document - indeed it is often self-contradictory. Its bronze age authors simply did not possess a great deal of scientific knowledge and so the stories within reflect a bronze age cosmological view(complete with a flat-earth-centered universe).

When fighting a new disease or trying to plot a course for a space probe we do not consult the bible, why should you do so on matters regarding the origin of life’s complexity?

471

[quote]Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Ok. But in all honesty i would like to hear you take on the bible and please don’t just answere with, “It’s utter crap”. I agree that I could advance my education, if I made the choice to do so. However I dont see it to be the salvation that most do. And im sorry if you see me as ignorant, like I said before i never claimed to be the smartest person…i know that’s nothing to be proud of.

It had it’s purpose, it worked in the Bronze Age but now it’s detrimental to human civilization. It stopped being a good thing around the start of the Dark Ages.[/quote]

Ok…care to expand on that. Believe me i can see why one would be cynical to religion and the bible, but why specifically do you see it as a false doctrine.

472

[quote]fleeben wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Ok. But in all honesty i would like to hear you take on the bible and please don’t just answere with, “It’s utter crap”. I agree that I could advance my education, if I made the choice to do so. However I dont see it to be the salvation that most do. And im sorry if you see me as ignorant, like I said before i never claimed to be the smartest person…i know that’s nothing to be proud of.

I think most educated people view the bible the same way you might view the holy books of other civilizations - as a collection of myths and stories to explain the natural world. While its authors certainly drew inspiration at times from contemporary events, it is not a historical document - indeed it is often self-contradictory. Its bronze age authors simply did not possess a great deal of scientific knowledge and so the stories within reflect a bronze age cosmological view(complete with a flat-earth-centered universe).

When fighting a new disease or trying to plot a course for a space probe we do not consult the bible, why should you do so on matters regarding the origin of life’s complexity?[/quote]

Right…but you have yet to expand on these self-contradictory stories the bible has.

473

[quote]fleeben wrote:
It is amusing how every [insert religious sect here] sees themselves as the one true line of belief, handed down from [insert questionably historical prophet here] and everyone else as pretenders.

IF YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A SUPERNATURAL BEING, YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A RECENT CREATION. PERIOD.

So do you basically believe that all the fossils in the ground were put there as a test of your faith? Philosophically speaking, there are very few things(if any) that you can absolutely know, but to use that as leverage for not accepting the truth of evolution is simply disingenuous(which means dishonest).[/quote]

Um… I think you saw one line and then imagined a bunch of stuff that wasn’t in my post.

It is disingenuous (I hear that means dishonest) of the guy in the video to play to the religious people saying science canâ??t comment on god and that god is still a very real possibility, then say recent creation is disproven.

FACTUALLY, if you are going to assume what we know about physics to remain true going backwards in time (what he is doing with evolution), matter must have always existed. But then again, matter not having a cause also goes against scientific theory.

The guy is essentially saying all matter poofing into existence as a singularity, then spontaneously (and scientifically impossibly) expanding outward forming the universe in its present state through the guidelines of invisible forces is a reasonable for all people including scientists to believe. BUT a bunny pooffing into existence, only an idiot could believe that.

It is complete hypocrisy. Neither answer is any more logically legitimate.

I did not comment of any “true” religion. I did not say anything about fossils being a test of faith. Please quit making up stuff about me.

474

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Right…but you have yet to expand on these self-contradictory stories the bible has.
[/quote]

First of all, the rest of my post stands alone even without the claims of the inconsistent nature of the bible. But since you asked, read the passion in each of the four gospels. They are completely different and contradictory. In one (matthew or mark) jesus last words are “why have you forsaken me” and in another he seems completely aware of what is to come and says “forgiven them they know not what they do.” Furthermore if you look at the gospels in the chronological order in which they were written you will see that his burial goes from a hasty affair(matthew) to an elaborate ceremony worthy of kings or gods(luke).

To return to the immediate point, however, I must ask why you would look towards bronze age collection of myths for tips regarding the origin of life but not in other scientific matters. Why bother to see if you can sail around the earth if it says its flat RIGHT IN TEH BIBLE?

475

[quote]mattfelts wrote:
Ok…care to expand on that. Believe me i can see why one would be cynical to religion and the bible, but why specifically do you see it as a false doctrine.[/quote]

Because people makes great claim about the origins of human ethics without searching for proof. If the Bible was such a great book of morals, we’d see unruly children and adulterers stoned to death. That’s why people picked it up in such huge numbers after Jesus, he preached (for the most part) kindness and tolerance and they glossed over the genocide. But they neglect that fact that the Old Testament is still meant to be followed.

How many of our laws actually came from the Bible? Where does the ability to cherry pick the good parts come from? Who even follows the 10 commandments?

476

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
But then again, matter not having a cause also goes against scientific theory.[/quote]
Wait what? You’re going to have to elaborate on that one, because it is not even close to self-evident(or even true, but w/e).

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The guy is essentially saying all matter poofing into existence as a singularity, then spontaneously (and scientifically impossibly) expanding outward forming the universe in its present state through the guidelines of invisible forces is a reasonable for all people including scientists to believe. BUT a bunny pooffing into existence, only an idiot could believe that.
[/quote]

So if I extend the metaphor to suppose that there must have been some magician that indeed made the rabbit appear(putting aside the fact that the rabbit is ‘poofing’ into an already existent space, whereas the universe IS all of space and time) where then did the magician come from? How does compounding the miracles help at all? What created God?

478

[quote]fleeben wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
But then again, matter not having a cause also goes against scientific theory.
Wait what? You’re going to have to elaborate on that one, because it is not even close to self-evident(or even true, but w/e).

[/quote]
Quick, explain a situation where causation is not self evident.

It has been confirmed and assumed by every experiment ever. When investigating ANYTHING in science it is always assumed there is a cause. If you don’t consider it self evident, you have to throw out all of science, which is essentially the pursuit of assigning cause to effect.

Maybe you aren’t getting it. The guy on the video was sympathetically acknowledging the possibility of god. You cannot logically then say creation didn’t happen. Period. I don’t know how I could make it any simpler. I was not arguing for a god, I was expanding from the guy’s own pretext. You have quite the imagination though.

However, you are now doing something very similar to the video, which i have already pointed out multiple times in this thread AND even already asked you to read what i wrote on the topic. But since you cannot, for some unknown reason, read earlier posts, I will repost what I said.

What causes god?:

In asking what chronologically causes a supernatural human being, you are acknowledging on one hand that he is outside the rule of the physical universe, then with the other hand demanding answers to questions that assume he is bound by those rules.

The question, “what caused god?” is in effect a liars paradox. It is only paradoxical because of false assumptions made in the question.

If you are going to base a question on an supernatural being, those questions cannot, by definition, be regarding the effect of natural laws on the being.

I’m sorry I cannot answer a fake paradox.

479

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Mak, please relax, buddy. You’ve got the Pomeranian thing going on here. Just use your wit and charm and spice up the place with some conversation of substance instead of just biting heels.

Ano, I haven’t forgotten your request.[/quote]

Your lackluster wit never fails to disappoint.

480

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
You cannot logically then say creation didn’t happen.[/quote]

Perhaps he was arguing against the literal take on the Bible, as too many are prone to do.

481

[quote]Makavali wrote:
mattfelts wrote:
Ok…care to expand on that. Believe me i can see why one would be cynical to religion and the bible, but why specifically do you see it as a false doctrine.

Because people makes great claim about the origins of human ethics without searching for proof. If the Bible was such a great book of morals, we’d see unruly children and adulterers stoned to death. That’s why people picked it up in such huge numbers after Jesus, he preached (for the most part) kindness and tolerance and they glossed over the genocide. But they neglect that fact that the Old Testament is still meant to be followed.

How many of our laws actually came from the Bible? Where does the ability to cherry pick the good parts come from? Who even follows the 10 commandments?[/quote]

Actually to the Christian the old testament is not meant to be followed. You see the old testament was a collection of books written to show that we could never follow his perfect laws. The new testament is a “new covenant”, Christ is the fullfilment of the old covenant law. Through his death he paid for the sins that we could never pay for ourselves. Yes Jesus did preach tolerance and kindness and this “genocide” (not sure exactly what your speaking of) only serves to show His Grace and love all the more.