[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
If they were launching mortars for instance, survival was the issue at hand. Don’t make them look like unruly american kids throwing water balloons at passing cars:
[/quote]
The point being…? What’s Palestinians and Iranians gotta do with Iraqis?
Not following. What’s the sin of the Iraqis in all that? Do you think they had a hand in 9/11?
Was Abu Ghraib an exception? Last I checked, it was condoned by highly-ranked officials. Do your bombs discriminate between babies, elderly, women and men?
[quote]and why the hell do they want to cover their women up?
Damn![/quote]
Who said they should be covered? It’s up to the woman to dress however she wants.
[quote]mstott25 wrote:
Yes, you’re historically astute aren’t you? Japan and Germany never cooperated with occupying forces who were there to rebuild their countries after their leaders drove them into the ground. What was anybody thinking? [/quote]
What kind of an idiotic analogy is that? The Germans and Japanese started the war. Iraq was minding its own business in 2003.
You can’t say that the international community didn’t warn of the disaster to ensue. Where were you then? I know, buying Bush’ and Cheney’s lies.
Are you on dope? What’s the punishment reserved to thieves in Saudi Arabia gotta do with anything?
You’re giving those savages way too much credit. Decide the outcome of the world? Gimme a break!
Of course, when you go around invading countries and throwing bombs, it’s bound to cause fatalities. Don’t pretend that it’s beyond your control and that your military isn’t directly responsible for it.
You watch too much sci-fi. Nuclear weapons (which Saddam didn’t have) don’t deliver themselves. You need a sophisticated missile system, that Iraq couldn’t get in a million years. How was he gonna fire them at you? Put them in the mail?
Are you seriously suggesting that you didn’t see it coming back in 2003? I believe Bush, Cheney and Rove knew exactly what they were doing. They knew that there were no WMDs, but they figured that once the troops are on the ground and the Ba’athist party dismantled, they could invoke plenty of other reasons to keep permanent bases.
None of the people you’re referring to has nationalized his country’s resources. My point was that anytime a leader tells your corporations to take a hike, he is immediately called a dictator in the US. Then you use the most ruthless methods to get him out. Again, crack a history book once in a while. Might do you good.
Let me edit that. How on earth did your oil get under their sands?
No sir. Whether you allow abortions or not is the least of my concerns. I also couldn’t care less if you decreed that evolution can’t be taught in schools. But when you unleash your mighty military machine on some country that’s no threat to you, I reserve to right to harshly condemn that.
Cut your fingers all you like, just don’t touch those of others.
Now you’re being ridiculous. If your police officers were named Hassan and Mohammed, didn’t speak English, and came from Iraq you wouldn’t be so complacent towards their presence, now would you? Honestly.
No sir. I’m Moroccan. That aside, I can recall a speech by your president in which he called Algeria “a bastion of democracy”. It is, as you rightfully pointed out, nothing more than a highly corrupted military dictatorship.
I sometimes forget chances that you even own a passport are very low where you are.
[quote]vladsmicer wrote:
To everyone opposing lixy, ask him what he thinks of the agents, spies, and soldiers, that Iran and Syria have spread throughout the middle east and Turkey over the years. Ask him about the meddling, manipulation, murder and assasinations that they have perpetrated on the Middle East over the years. Ask him about the the overt and covert operations to destablize and control foreign policy by those two countries.
[/quote]
Good point. But there seems to be a double standard there. I guess it’s not meddling if Syria assassinates TWO lebanese presidents. And it’s a given that anything Iran does is a-ok because the Americans meddled in their country. That gives them a free pass to meddle in other countries I guess.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I believe the deaths after the initial invasion would be less than the chaos which unfortunately resulted when destabilizing forces began killing politicians, blowing up shia mosques, started a civil war and decided they did not want peace in Iraq.
Are you on state-the-obvious mode today?[/quote]
No, then why dwell on deaths caused by American bombs when the other forces have killed more. Had the destablizing forces not done what I have said above, Iraq might be in a better situation today. The people who you say were euphoric about the fall of Saddam may have had a better future.
Yes alqaeda is in Irag, and yes it is a result of the war, but they caused more of the deaths and destruction and I never see you start threads when car bombs go off in the middle of markets or outside shia shrines killing hundreds.
Only ones about kids throwing rocks at US troops. Maybe these kids should be throwing rocks at al-qadea terrorists instead. Oh, I forgot, the terrorists would probably shoot back.
[quote]mstott25 wrote:
"lixy wrote:
Are you on dope? What’s the punishment reserved to thieves in Saudi Arabia gotta do with anything?
Because I find it ironic how you called the troops savages for watching two iraqi kids fight when the creme de la creme of muslims gather around on a regular basis near Mecca to watch fellow muslims get beheaded and have other body parts chopped off. You are so blinded by your presuppositions and prejudices you can’t even see how savage the middle east looks to us americans."
Better yet:
“You watch too much sci-fi. Nuclear weapons (which Saddam didn’t have) don’t deliver themselves. You need a sophisticated missile system, that Iraq couldn’t get in a million years. How was he gonna fire them at you? Put them in the mail?”
What is interesting about this arguement is the anti-US one sidedness of it. When talking about the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam is portrayed as our ally. We supposedly supplied him with weapons when in reality it was the Soviet Union. Well, if that is the case, shouldn’t we have known whether or not we gave Saddam weapons of mass destruction? Either we did or we didn’t.
“Is this how you’ve survived in this forum for so long? Once somebody shows you how stupid your points are you just change directions and start making worse and worse claims scattering red herrings everywhere you go?”
[quote]mstott25 wrote:
You are the dumbass that said no country has ever allowed an occupation. I just mentioned two, now you’re nitpicking about the circumstances. “Well yeah, Germany and Japan were occupied but Iraq was minding it’s own business…” Yeah, big beautiful Iraq never did a damn thing to get our attention did they? They never showed any aggression to any of their neighbors. How many times did you visit Iraq the Great before this war? [/quote]
It’s not nitpicking. Iraq showed aggression towards Kuwait in the early 90s and got what it deserved. If you ask me, it was already thoroughly punished for their actions after decades of blockades and no-fly zones. Claiming that GWII was because of Kuwait is ludicrous.
Again with 9/11? Are you stupid? Repeat after me:
IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11.
They look savage to me as well. In fact, had you bothered reading my other posts, you would have seen that I have nothing but disdain for the Saudis and their ways. They are savages alright!
Now, if you wanna get into specifics, you do pretty much the same in the US with a little toy called the electric chair that delivers a couple of thousands Volts. You’re therefore in no position to criticize how another country choses to punish their citizens. And as savages as I consider them to be, I never EVER heard of Saudis chopping heads off as punishment. I encourage you to post any evidence to the contrary.
I actually met a guy who went to his residence in Pakistan, but that’s besides the point…
Building a nuke is quite the easy task for anyone mastering nuclear physics. What’s your point when you say that everyone knows how to make one? Isn’t information supposed to be free?
And you fear for your safety because big corporations might leak Uranium to some other country? You need more than raw Uranium to make a bomb. You actually need a highly (and I mean HIGHLY) enriched isotope.
As for your kind invitation to study in the US, I’m gonna stick with a system that doesn’t require you to pay tens of thousands of Dollars for your education (hundreds of thousands if you attend a decent school). You see, I pay about 20$ here, and I study in the top school of the country.
Fuck Michael Moore! The bloodshed will not stop when you leave Iraq that’s for sure. What’s even more certain is that your presence there exacerbates the problem by providing Al-Qaeda cause to converge to the country.
You had no right being there in the first place. Get out!
Wow! I mean just WOW!
Do you think H. Bush and Arnold would have gone to celebrate Calderon’s (highly controversial) presidential victory if he was the one that privatized the oil of Mexico? The oil of Mexico was privatized under Plutarco Calles. Those times were extremely tense between the two countries. Matter of fact, because of Calles’ efforts to enforce the nationalization of their oil, he was called a commie by your Ambassador in Mexico, and your secretary of state issued a threat against the country. Calles’ Mexico was routinely referred to in your press as “Soviet Mexico” and war seemed imminent.
So yes, I’ll stick by my initial point. Anyone who dares nationalize anything becomes a de facto enemy of Washington. You’d know that if you ever opened a history book or read any of the CIA documents made public.
There is the abiogenic theory. I’m not fond of it, but it’s still a valid school of thought…
[quote][b]Were the Arabs riding these dinosaurs around or making love to them? Do the Arabs have a right to the oil just because their houses are above the ground where the oil lies?
No, now’s the part where we get to pragmatic evolution. We can and we will use that oil. So here…we’ll take that, thank you very much. You keep cutting off hands, feet, and heads and telling your women to cover their bodies up and we’ll continue leading the world in science and technology. have a nice day! [/b][/quote]
Oh my God!
Commenting on this would be futile.
My point exactly. If you spent nearly as much time debating your foreign policy than you do debate stupid non-issues such as abortions, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. You would have realized that invading Iraq would be a blunder. Go grab a paper from 2003 and see what little debate there was. Iraqi WMDs were presented as fact.
Ha! Go sell that “all we want to do…” crap to somebody else. I’m not buying any of it.
What is that? A pissing contest? I am in no way responsible for the fact that a, forty years ago, my country was still under occupation, nor am I responsible for the lack of efforts displayed by its inhabitants to better themselves.
I have no plan to run the world. I just don’t like it when little kids are bombed by bullying countries.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Good point. But there seems to be a double standard there. I guess it’s not meddling if Syria assassinates TWO lebanese presidents. [/quote]
Presidents? Get your facts straight. Assad is a bloody dictator that oughta be ousted by the Syrians. I observed a period of mourning after the assassination of Hariri, so don’t you paint me as sympathizing with his killers, whoever they are.
The day the Iranian army goes invading other countries, I’ll be the first to denounce that. If you can provide substantial proof that they are meddling in a sovereign country’s affairs, I’ll denounce them. They get a free pass on the nuclear issue because of the NPT, nothing more, nothing less.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
No, then why dwell on deaths caused by American bombs when the other forces have killed more. [/quote]
Can’t you understand that there’s a huge difference between you breaking the furniture of your OWN house, and somebody else doing it?
You people shoot each other in the streets all the time. Do you hear me complain about it?
Again, I won’t start threads on the crack head in Washington blowing up the head of his local dealer simply because it won’t have much relevance to the forum. In case you missed that, it’s called “Politics and world issues” not “Random crime bits”.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What is interesting about this arguement is the anti-US one sidedness of it. When talking about the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam is portrayed as our ally. We supposedly supplied him with weapons when in reality it was the Soviet Union. Well, if that is the case, shouldn’t we have known whether or not we gave Saddam weapons of mass destruction? Either we did or we didn’t.[/quote]
Where in my argument did you see any mention of the Iran-Iraq war or that your country armed him? I pointed out that in the hypothetical scenario that he had a nuke (a far-fetched on at that), he wouldn’t be able to hurt you with it because you’re so far away. Concentrate a bit.
[quote] lixy wrote:
Now, if you wanna get into specifics, you do pretty much the same in the US with a little toy called the electric chair that delivers a couple of thousands Volts. You’re therefore in no position to criticize how another country choses to punish their citizens.[/quote]
See, lixy, this is your greatest failing. Just because a country has a policy (death penalty), to which a large minority is against, this doesn’t mean that any one of us doesn’t have a right to voice our opinion (of any type of punishment we see in another country). I’m personally against capital punishment. And I have every right to voice my opinion, even if the country I live in practices it.
You seem to be extremely confused about this specifically. America does NOT have ONE voice. To throw a blanket statement such as “your country does this, therefore you are in no position to criticize” is moronic.
That argument holds absolutely no water. It’s such a bigoted over-generalization, you should be ashamed at the de-personalizing of every individual in the country to fit this quite irrational view you have of the population within said country.
I get the impression that you think us all as parts of a single celled organism. That is exactly how you speak of every one of us when you flip that stupid “you have no right to voice opinions due to your actions since the beginning of time” bullshit. It’s childish.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Who the fuck ever said it did? [/quote]
I quoted mstott25’s passage that did. Pay attention.
So did General Shinseki but guess what mistakes were made and guess what else, a 9/11 has not happened again in America. You can cry and complain all you like but you’re a little observer looking into something that has nothing to do with you.
He clearly correlated the fall of Saddam with the lack of subsequent attacks on American soil.
[quote]The Bush administration has said repeatedly it did not have anything to do with Iraq.
They have pointed out the fact that Iraq and AQ had relations. They did. This does not mean Saddam was involved in 9/11.[/quote]
Like hell they did! Half of your countrymen believed Saddam was “personally involved” in the attacks of 9/11. How did they get the idea? Reading cartoons? The administration repeatedly suggested a link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, and the rationale for going to war was that Saddam would give his WMDs (which he didn’t have) to Ben-Laden (which the secular that is Hussein wouldn’t be caught dead dealing with).
[quote]lixy wrote:
…Like hell they did! Half of your countrymen believed Saddam was “personally involved” in the attacks of 9/11. How did they get the idea? Reading cartoons? The administration repeatedly suggested a link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, and the rationale for going to war was that Saddam would give his WMDs (which he didn’t have) to Ben-Laden (which the secular that is Hussein wouldn’t be caught dead dealing with).
That is bullshit. You cannot believe those polls. I do not know a single person that believes Saddam was involved in the planning of the 9/11 attacks.
And Saddam certainly had WMD’s. He has used them. The only question is when he got rid of them. If he would have opened the door to the inspectors and stopped being so damn deceptive perhaps he would still be in power.
It is his own fault he wanted to keep the image of having WMD’s.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
That is bullshit. You cannot believe those polls. [/quote]
Of course I can. According to you, every poll ever taken about the subject is BS. Harris, Zogby, The Times, The Washighton Post, CNN, Fox and numerous others are all somehow lying? What kind of an idiocy is that?
In case you missed it, I gave a link about a congressman who as late as June 2005 still believed that Saddam was behind 9/11 and claims that “the evidence is clear”.
I didn’t know you had your head so up your ass that you’d question the result of every single poll taken that shows a substantial portion (as high as 70% around the time of the invasion) of your compatriots believing Iraq was involved in 9/11.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
That is bullshit. You cannot believe those polls.
Of course I can. According to you, every poll ever taken about the subject is BS. Harris, Zogby, The Times, The Washighton Post, CNN, Fox and numerous others are all somehow lying? What kind of an idiocy is that?
In case you missed it, I gave a link about a congressman who as late as June 2005 still believed that Saddam was behind 9/11 and claims that “the evidence is clear”.
I didn’t know you had your head so up your ass that you’d question the result of every single poll taken that shows a substantial portion (as high as 70% around the time of the invasion) of your compatriots believing Iraq was involved in 9/11.
[/quote]
And amazingly I do not know a single person that believes it.
Don’t forget the same flawed pollsters showed John Kerry beating Bush by a hefty margin.
Lixy,when are you going to get over yourself and realize that your blanket statements against the US show your own uneducated ignorance? Here lies America…it’s states…and its individuals. You don’t know the life of an “average” American. The average American already knows we are not truly united as a country and that we are not perfect. Should people truly pay for the sins of their fathers?
Do you agree with everything your government does? Ahem Can you truly voice your opinion about your government? Do you agree with everything a person of Islamic faith does? The answer is NO…so you hate our foreign policy…so what? I do,too.I voice how I feel about our government.
Me as well as millions of Americans feel like we are being “raped” by our government everyday. I am at one of the biggest Army stations in all the country…and meet and know soldiers that feel the same way. They didn’t expect to be blindfolded and sent to “war.”
But don’t sit there and try to make us as a country a bunch of whoremongers…I know "WHERE DID I STATE THAT?"is your response. Like I said in an earlier post addressed to you…“you’re dissappointed in us” which is fine…I’m dissappointed in you because the world is full of people like you…smart but ignorant.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Lixy,when are you going to get over yourself and realize that your blanket statements against the US show your own uneducated ignorance? Here lies America…it’s states…and its individuals. You don’t know the life of an “average” American. The average American already knows we are not truly united as a country and that we are not perfect. Should people truly pay for the sins of their fathers?
Do you agree with everything your government does? Ahem Can you truly voice your opinion about your government? Do you agree with everything a person of Islamic faith does? The answer is NO…so you hate our foreign policy…so what? I do,too.I voice how I feel about our government.
Me as well as millions of Americans feel like we are being “raped” by our government everyday. I am at one of the biggest Army stations in all the country…and meet and know soldiers that feel the same way. They didn’t expect to be blindfolded and sent to “war.”
But don’t sit there and try to make us as a country a bunch of whoremongers…I know "WHERE DID I STATE THAT?"is your response. Like I said in an earlier post addressed to you…“you’re dissappointed in us” which is fine…I’m dissappointed in you because the world is full of people like you…smart but ignorant. [/quote]
I’m not disappointed by anything. Rather, I’m appalled at the fact that people not only support Bush’s imperialistic adventure, but actually try to rationalize it. The notion that some people believe Bush when he talks about “spreading freedom” and “bringing democracy” makes me wanna puke. We all know what it’s about. Yet, they pretend that the major reason for your interventions in the mid-East’s got nothing to do with money.
I know that you feel betrayed by your government and there’s little you can do to change that. We’ve all seen the sweeping victory of the Democrats in the chambers. But we’ve also seen what little difference it makes it makes on foreign policy. They may have passed some laws about education and taxes, but at the end of the day, your troops are still in Iraq and are going to be forever. No matter whose party’s in the White House or in Capitol Hill, foreign policy is the same: “We have the big guns and we will find reasons to use them.”
Once you accept preemptive war as valid, there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from attacking any country on Earth. Look, those people have a biological laboratory. It may be used to build WMDs. Let’s bomb 'em. Bush opened Pandora’s box. If you can argue that Iraq was a danger to the US (a country that literally was in ruin), you can argue that any other country is a danger as well. After that, it’s a matter of picking the juiciest ones.
I quoted mstott25’s passage that did. Pay attention.
So did General Shinseki but guess what mistakes were made and guess what else, a 9/11 has not happened again in America. You can cry and complain all you like but you’re a little observer looking into something that has nothing to do with you.
He clearly correlated the fall of Saddam with the lack of subsequent attacks on American soil. [/quote]
No I didn’t. I said we haven’t had another 9/11. We went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq and the american people have not been attacked since. You were criticizing the fact that america had troops stationed in other countries. You want us to bring all of our troops back, you want us out of Iraq, you want us to be nice and kiss each other on both cheeks when we say hello and i was merely pointing out to you that we haven’t been attacked since 9/11.
America makes plenty of mistakes, but when we error we error to the side of protecting our citizens rather than protecting our reputation among morrocan immigrants studying in sweden.
[quote]
Like hell they did! Half of your countrymen believed Saddam was “personally involved” in the attacks of 9/11. How did they get the idea? Reading cartoons? [/quote]
No they got those ideas by reading the publications you just cited. Nice poll I noticed it was taken a few weeks after we invaded Iraq. Think maybe we’ve found out a thing or two since then?
You know what I’m sick of? I’m sick of the moaning and crying from freaking muslims across the world. I’m sick of muslims throwing temper tantrums like 2 year olds over a dutch comic strip portraying muhammad. I’m sick of hearing about allah and jihad and zionists and how everybody wants their oil. Muslims are always victims and never take responsibility for their own actions.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Lixy,when are you going to get over yourself and realize that your blanket statements against the US show your own uneducated ignorance? Here lies America…it’s states…and its individuals. You don’t know the life of an “average” American. The average American already knows we are not truly united as a country and that we are not perfect. Should people truly pay for the sins of their fathers?
Do you agree with everything your government does? Ahem Can you truly voice your opinion about your government? Do you agree with everything a person of Islamic faith does? The answer is NO…so you hate our foreign policy…so what? I do,too.I voice how I feel about our government.
Me as well as millions of Americans feel like we are being “raped” by our government everyday. I am at one of the biggest Army stations in all the country…and meet and know soldiers that feel the same way. They didn’t expect to be blindfolded and sent to “war.”
But don’t sit there and try to make us as a country a bunch of whoremongers…I know "WHERE DID I STATE THAT?"is your response. Like I said in an earlier post addressed to you…“you’re dissappointed in us” which is fine…I’m dissappointed in you because the world is full of people like you…smart but ignorant.
I’m not disappointed by anything. Rather, I’m appalled at the fact that people not only support Bush’s imperialistic adventure, but actually try to rationalize it. The notion that some people believe Bush when he talks about “spreading freedom” and “bringing democracy” makes me wanna puke. We all know what it’s about. Yet, they pretend that the major reason for your interventions in the mid-East’s got nothing to do with money.
I know that you feel betrayed by your government and there’s little you can do to change that. We’ve all seen the sweeping victory of the Democrats in the chambers. But we’ve also seen what little difference it makes it makes on foreign policy. They may have passed some laws about education and taxes, but at the end of the day, your troops are still in Iraq and are going to be forever. No matter whose party’s in the White House or in Capitol Hill, foreign policy is the same: “We have the big guns and we will find reasons to use them.”
Once you accept preemptive war as valid, there’s absolutely nothing stopping you from attacking any country on Earth. Look, those people have a biological laboratory. It may be used to build WMDs. Let’s bomb 'em. Bush opened Pandora’s box. If you can argue that Iraq was a danger to the US (a country that literally was in ruin), you can argue that any other country is a danger as well. After that, it’s a matter of picking the juiciest ones. [/quote]
As I figured…you won’t address the issues of my post…you truly are ignorant.