Kiddie Porn and the FBI

Of course they don’t, your answers are common sense.

You could ask as well:
If some divine being offered you a deal, how would you react? His end of the bargain offers to protect your child from the three aforementioned events (being murdered, raped, or the case where his photos will be used as whacking material)
However, you must assign the following job priorities: 100%, 50%, 10%

Everyone will make sure his child isn’t murdered first. Secondly, some extra protection against a pedo-stalker is welcome, while the rest is just a bonus.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Murder is, to my mind, the most foul of the three. Followed by rape, with pedophilia way off in a distant third. As long as the bozo who’s jacking off to the pictures doesn’t actually touch a child, and the pictures are not of children engaging in ilicit and unwholesome activities, then as sick as he is, he’s not hurting anybody.

All three men do not deserve death, in my estimation. If I were a judge, I would sentence the murderer to be executed, after forty years of breaking rocks at Fort Leavenworth. The rapist would get a life sentence without possibility of parole, at a maximum security prison (it would be a nice touch if he had a tattoo on his forehead that advertised his offense, so that the other inmates would treat him appropriately).

The guy jacking off to pictures of children is actually breaking no laws, and is a threat to nobody, so I as a judge could pass no judgment against him. However, I would recommend that he see a psychiatrist, and possibly be kept away from real children.[/quote]

The photos of the children are supplied to fill demand from pedophiles. Those children are raped and abused. Their sexual abuse feeds the appetite of your local kiddie porn bozo, who pays to enjoy his fix. He is a threat because he has the means (money) to cause harm to be done on his behalf.

Cows are not killed randomly. They’re killed in response to my cry for steak and because of my willingness to pay for it. They are killed on my behalf, a service I gladly pay money for, being disinclined to bludgeon my own livestock to death. Are you familiar with the nutria or coypu? Attempts have been made to establish markets for its meat and fur but because it’s a disgusting rat-thing no one is interested. Hence you won’t see the kind of large-scale nutria feedlots you’ll notice for cattle driving through Amarillo, TX. No demand means no supply means no feedlots dedicated to the fattening of nutria.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Murder is, to my mind, the most foul of the three. Followed by rape, with pedophilia way off in a distant third. As long as the bozo who’s jacking off to the pictures doesn’t actually touch a child, and the pictures are not of children engaging in illicit and unwholesome activities, then as sick as he is, he’s not hurting anybody.

EmilyQ wrote:
The photos of the children are supplied to fill demand from pedophiles. Those children are raped and abused. Their sexual abuse feeds the appetite of your local kiddie porn bozo, who pays to enjoy his fix. He is a threat because he has the means (money) to cause harm to be done on his behalf.

[/quote]

Did you actually read what I wrote, Em?

You know, I thought I did. But now as I look at the bolded portion I’m wondering if I could have paid closer attention.

My bad.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
So what do you find the most repulsive, Mak? A man killing a 5-year old (murder), a man fucking a five year-old (rape), or a man seeing a picture of a 5-year-old on a computer screen and becoming sexually aroused (pedophilia)? All three are pretty disgusting, but do all three men deserve death, by your standards?[/quote]

Well, yes. The child in the picture couldn’t give consent and the guy who most likely paid for it is enabling child abuse.

If it’s just a random picture of a 5 year old (i.e. not a sexual picture), however, then I’m just going to keep my distance from the perv.

Well, I don’t know the stats myself, but I do wonder just how many children are murdered after being used to produce the pictures that are then traded around the internet.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
All three are pretty disgusting, but do all three men deserve death, by your standards?

Well, yes. The child in the picture couldn’t give consent and the guy who most likely paid for it is enabling child abuse.[/quote]

Deserves death? Really? For possession of a picture?

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

You know, a lot of children are enslaved in China, and many of them die while doing their involuntary labor. By applying the same standard that you apply to possession of child pornography, should a person possessing cheap Chinese products produced by slave labor be held culpable for their abuse and death? Does he deserve to be imprisoned?

After all, isn’t buying these products tantamount to enabling child slavery, abuse, and murder?

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
As long as the bozo who’s jacking off to the pictures doesn’t actually touch a child, and the pictures are not of children engaging in ilicit and unwholesome activities, then as sick as he is, he’s not hurting anybody.

[/quote]

If you did find out your neighbor was into this, what would you do? I’m not sure if you have children, but would you drop a hint that if he comes around your kids that things “won’t go so well for you?” Would you warn other neighbors, especially those with children, about this guy? And then, if some neighbors got together and left an anonymous message (like, left it wrapped around a brick, though his window) that it was time for him to move his butt out, “or else,” would you turn them in to the authorities?

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
All three are pretty disgusting, but do all three men deserve death, by your standards?

Well, yes. The child in the picture couldn’t give consent and the guy who most likely paid for it is enabling child abuse.

Deserves death? Really? For possession of a picture?

http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

You know, a lot of children are enslaved in China, and many of them die while doing their involuntary labor. By applying the same standard that you apply to possession of child pornography, should a person possessing cheap Chinese products produced by slave labor be held culpable for their abuse and death? Does he deserve to be imprisoned?

After all, isn’t buying these products tantamount to enabling child slavery, abuse, and murder?

[/quote]

It’s why I don’t buy cheap. NZ made ftw.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Murder is, to my mind, the most foul of the three. Followed by rape, with pedophilia way off in a distant third. As long as the bozo who’s jacking off to the pictures doesn’t actually touch a child, and the pictures are not of children engaging in ilicit and unwholesome activities, then as sick as he is, he’s not hurting anybody.

All three men do not deserve death, in my estimation. If I were a judge, I would sentence the murderer to be executed, after forty years of breaking rocks at Fort Leavenworth. The rapist would get a life sentence without possibility of parole, at a maximum security prison (it would be a nice touch if he had a tattoo on his forehead that advertised his offense, so that the other inmates would treat him appropriately).

The guy jacking off to pictures of children is actually breaking no laws, and is a threat to nobody, so I as a judge could pass no judgment against him. However, I would recommend that he see a psychiatrist, and possibly be kept away from real children.

The photos of the children are supplied to fill demand from pedophiles. Those children are raped and abused. Their sexual abuse feeds the appetite of your local kiddie porn bozo, who pays to enjoy his fix. He is a threat because he has the means (money) to cause harm to be done on his behalf.

Cows are not killed randomly. They’re killed in response to my cry for steak and because of my willingness to pay for it. They are killed on my behalf, a service I gladly pay money for, being disinclined to bludgeon my own livestock to death. Are you familiar with the nutria or coypu? Attempts have been made to establish markets for its meat and fur but because it’s a disgusting rat-thing no one is interested. Hence you won’t see the kind of large-scale nutria feedlots you’ll notice for cattle driving through Amarillo, TX. No demand means no supply means no feedlots dedicated to the fattening of nutria.

[/quote]

In you´re scenario you create a demand because you are willing to pay for it.

That makes a good case against buying that kind of pictures, but not against owning it.

This way you could also avoid punishing teenagers who film themselves.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
And yes, I’d like to see if your answer differs much from mine.

For the first two I’d pull the trapdoor lever or swat the horse on the ass or pull the trigger or flip the switch or slice the throat so fast your anarchist head would spin like Linda Blair’s and your libertarian eyeballs would fly out of their sockets from the centrifugal force.

The guy jacking off to just naked pics of kids would lose his balls to the dullest razor knife in my toolbox and he’d watch my dog eat them in front of his very eyes. If he was jacking off to pics of children being abused he would lose his life akin to the murderer or rapist.

And if any of this happened with my children he would die a very slow and very painful death; one that would impress even the most sadistic Apache who ever pissed a drop on the Mogollon Rim.

To stay with the western theme do you happen to recall what happened to the character Jake Spoon in McMurtry’s Lonesome Dove? Do you remember how and why he died? If so, be that a reminder to any apologist for pedophiles whether he be of an anarchist or libertarian or rehabilitationist bent.

If you ride with 'em even if you haven’t committed their crimes and me and my boys cut your trail and hunt you down, you’re going to swing from the end of an oak tree branch too.

So to sum it all up succinctly, I’d pretty much give no quarter.[/quote]

Waste of energy Push. A 22 lr to the back of the head and in a mass grave to be burned. I would kill them like i would kill a varmint. with no thought or planning and throw them out as they did to the kids. You don’t humanize them this way. they were just a piece of trash you discarded.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Murder is, to my mind, the most foul of the three. Followed by rape, with pedophilia way off in a distant third. As long as the bozo who’s jacking off to the pictures doesn’t actually touch a child, and the pictures are not of children engaging in illicit and unwholesome activities, then as sick as he is, he’s not hurting anybody.

EmilyQ wrote:
The photos of the children are supplied to fill demand from pedophiles. Those children are raped and abused. Their sexual abuse feeds the appetite of your local kiddie porn bozo, who pays to enjoy his fix. He is a threat because he has the means (money) to cause harm to be done on his behalf.

Did you actually read what I wrote, Em?[/quote]

Coming back to this, I was thinking last night that the discussion has been centered on Tiribulus’ discovery of what he indicated was some pretty nasty stuff on his customer’s computer. We divided into two opposing teams in response to his report to the FBI, those who think a guy jacking off alone in a house is breaking no law regardless of the visuals involved and those who think it still constitutes a crime. My assumption that we were each in one of those two camps distorted my reading of your post.

So let me be sure I understand you (as we’ve established that I’m a careless reader at best and may possibly even be a filthy skimmer). Where exactly do you draw the line? An adult man watching Barney for sexual gratification is distasteful but unconcerning to you in the legal sense? What about provocatively posed pictures of children alone (not photographed in the act of being molested)?

Where does it cross into “he is hurting somebody” territory?

[quote]orion wrote:
EmilyQ wrote:

The photos of the children are supplied to fill demand from pedophiles. Those children are raped and abused. Their sexual abuse feeds the appetite of your local kiddie porn bozo, who pays to enjoy his fix. He is a threat because he has the means (money) to cause harm to be done on his behalf.

Cows are not killed randomly. They’re killed in response to my cry for steak and because of my willingness to pay for it. They are killed on my behalf, a service I gladly pay money for, being disinclined to bludgeon my own livestock to death. Are you familiar with the nutria or coypu? Attempts have been made to establish markets for its meat and fur but because it’s a disgusting rat-thing no one is interested. Hence you won’t see the kind of large-scale nutria feedlots you’ll notice for cattle driving through Amarillo, TX. No demand means no supply means no feedlots dedicated to the fattening of nutria.

In you´re scenario you create a demand because you are willing to pay for it.

That makes a good case against buying that kind of pictures, but not against owning it.

This way you could also avoid punishing teenagers who film themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t know, when my brother-in-law sent Omaha Steaks for Christmas I owned them without having purchased them. Isn’t it still my rapacious appetite for steak that creates the market?

Let’s say I’ve stolen the steak. What then?

Editing to add that I have no interest in treating foolish teens as criminals. I would use the legal leverage to mandate them to counseling.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

So let me be sure I understand you (as we’ve established that I’m a careless reader at best and may possibly even be a filthy skimmer). Where exactly do you draw the line? An adult man watching Barney for sexual gratification is distasteful but unconcerning to you in the legal sense? What about provocatively posed pictures of children alone (not photographed in the act of being molested)?

Where does it cross into “he is hurting somebody” territory?

[/quote]

If you’ve ever watched a movie’s credits roll until the end, you’ve undoubtedly noticed the notation in some films that “no animals were harmed in the production of this motion picture.”

This assurance undoubtedly provides some comfort for the animal lovers in the audience, whose enjoyment of the film would have tarnished had they felt a party to animal abuse in the name of cinematic entertainment.

Similarly (although I anticipate Push bellowing “you comparin’ children to animals?!?!?!”), if no children are actually abused or sexually exploited in the production of the pictures or films that the pedophile is sexually excited by, and so long as the pedophile confines his fantasies to those images, then no, he is none of my business.

But your question spawns a bigger one: what constitutes an exploitative image? One could argue that practically every movie that Brooke Shields ever appeared in as a minor was exploitative, from Pretty Baby (where she appeared nude in a bathtub at 12), to Blue Lagoon, where she appeared nude on a beach at 15. Surely these films enabled countless pedophiles… or hebephiles, to be precise, because at that point she was no longer a prepubescent child.

Is every image of a pre-adult girl or a boy in a so-called “provocative pose” worthy of censure as an exploitative image? If so, then the modeling industry produces millions of tons of arguably exploitative and probably pedophile-enabling photographs every year.

Unless you want to return to the good old days of the Elizabethan theater (whereby only effeminate men and boys in drag were allowed to portray women on the stage for fear that a woman on the stage would incite public lewdness), and have all child characters in cinema, television, theater, and magazines be portrayed by midgets and dwarves, the fact is that children are going to be “exploited” in the capturing of some images, by some people’s definitions. And that pedophiles will be “enabled” by completely innocuous images that the rest of us might simply consider cute.

As an aside, the exploitation of children in these media need not be captured on film to exist. Many’s the child actor or actress who was molested off-camera. Think it doesn’t happen? Think again. It happens all the time. If you want to shoot somebody in the back of the head, shoot the slimy producers who pressure 11-year olds girls to perform fellatio in exchange for a bit part in a B movie.

So yeah, the oldish guy watching jerking off to Rub-a-dub Dolly commercials and Sesame street earns nothing more than my disgust and pity. The guy who gets turned on by watching 12-year-old Brooke Shields, Natalie Portman and Kirstin Dunst filmed provocatively in Pretty Baby, Leon and Interview with a Vampire has probably got some real problems, particularly if he no longer found these women attractive once they turned 18. But he doesn’t deserve a bullet.

Not when there are so many real monsters out there who do.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I think it might be obvious in this discussion who has children and alternately who is the great (childless) philosopher/heavy thinker.[/quote]

Or then again, it might not.

How about we leave each other’s children out of any discussions, shall we?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t know, when my brother-in-law sent Omaha Steaks for Christmas I owned them without having purchased them. Isn’t it still my rapacious appetite for steak that creates the market?

Let’s say I’ve stolen the steak. What then?

Editing to add that I have no interest in treating foolish teens as criminals. I would use the legal leverage to mandate them to counseling.[/quote]

You would force healthy teenagers to counseling…? Hello, nanny state! You do realize puberty means one is ready for sexual activity?

Anyway, demand is only created by an incentive. Unlike supply it is not a measurable quantity. So, in the instance of you getting gifted some steaks the demand was created by the actual purchase. An exchange is an expression of demand.

Your brother-in-law could have shared his purchase with ten other recipients but no new demand is created. Demand is only expressed by actively choosing and expressing that choice with an exchange. You can say you might want to purchase more steaks but until you actually do there is no demand being fulfilled.

Similarly, no purveyor of steaks is going to supply you just because you want them. You have to be willing to pay and not just fantasizing about eating meat.