That a mere 10 mg increase like Defy suggested could have been a good dose for you. But for now I would try 125 mg for 6-8 weeks, with nothing else added.
You may try 400 mg of magnesium glycinate to see if it helps with sleep, but you should start practicing a good sleep hygiene first.
I was actually looking at my labs, and realized my E2 more than doubled, where FT only went up to 35 from 22. What if I’m getting worse because when I increase my dosage, it’s increasing my E2 more than my FT, by a good bit? So 100mg a week dailies put me at 650 TT 22 FT and 40 E2. Seems as I increase dosage, the ratio gets worse, what if the opposite happened when I lowered it? I was taking 50mg a week when I was younger and still haven’t felt anywhere near as good on 100mg a week or 150mg a week.
Let’s put it this way way, who would feel better? A guy with 500 TT 18 FT and 20-30 E2 or someone with 1400TT 35 FT and 84 E2? TT isn’t the one we are worried about, so compare the FT to E2 values, one is 18FT 20 - 30 E2 (estimates) and then 35 FT to 84 E2
Try 40mg e3d.
You’re loading up your body with too much test, which is converting to free E2.
Drop dose a lot.
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No one has the answer. There are plenty of guys in the first category without any symptoms and living their life just fine.
But others may feel sluggish on these levels.
And just to be precise, if you consider free T, you should consider free E2, not E2.
I know, but there isn’t a free E2 test, but I think we could agree that in general seeing the E2 increase by a higher percentage than FT is, it would be safe to say Free E2 is as well. I don’t think the binding would change. I could be wrong though, becuase that wasn’t the case with my TT and FT, my TT more than doubled but FT did not.
All I know for sure is, at 50mg a week I felt great, when I stopped TRT I gained alot of weight and slowly began to feel like shit. Then I did 100mg a week for like a year and didn’t get much better, and then 150mg a week and got worse. I’m just debating on whether to go through with it or not
The standard direct free T test is highly unreliable. I measure mine with TruT calculator.
If you were feeling fine with 50 mg a week, why don’t you go back to that?
I’m gonna start with 80mg a week, at 100mg my E2 was at 40, 80mg will hopefully bring it down a good bit. If I feel worse in 6 - 8 weeks, I’ll know a decrease was not the move, and go from there
Dude wtf, why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?
So you had a protocol that had you optimized and you’re not doing it because?..
Don’t overcomplicate shit, just do what works.
Greetings,
So I’m obviously very new to this, but is it not possible for person A who has 500 TT to feel better than person B who has 1400 TT even with everything else being equal?
There are numbers and there are also symptoms, right?
Numbers are not always indicative of symptoms from what I understand.
Please feel free to correct me, as I’m learning a lot from your thread as is.
Stay strong
Long story short, i’m 24 now, when I was 15 I was diagnosed with Hypogonadism, got on TRT from ages 16-20 without realizing how important is was. I knew nothing about TRT other than “Take this shot every 2 weeks to feel better.” When I started, I always thought “More is better!” so I wasn’t gonna tell the doc no to 100mg, or 150mg a week, I wanted to get juiced. I’ve found out this isn’t the case for everyone, and may not be the case for me. After learning the hard way, i’m gonna go back to that. At the 150mg dose, all thats really happened, is my acne has gotten worse, thats about it. Not much mood improvement, and honestly i’d say i’m more irritable and tired than I was before.
There’s a lot more to it, and everyone’s body works differently. Some people feel awesome at 500 TT and some feel better at 1200 TT. It is possible for someone at 500 TT to feel better than someone at 1200 TT, because thats basically my case. i’m at 1400 TT and on paper everthing seems fine, but I feel worse than I did at 650 TT. BTW welcome to the forum. Something important you should learn RIGHT NOW, is that Free Testosterone is the more important thing, TT is just the total in your system, FT is what you use, so you can’t just look at someones TT compared to someone elses, and automatically assume the person with higher TT is in better shape.
very interesting.
How did you even find out that all you needed was 50mg?
I just followed the protocol and felt great. It was only supposed to be a “starting dose” but I moved out early so no parents to push me to go back to endo and just neglected my endo bc I was young and dumb. Did 50mg a week for about 4 years. Felt great til I stopped due to stupidity and insurance loss.
What i mean is, were you prescribed 50mg to start or did you just happen to chose it?
Even at 100mg did you not feel well at all?
Yes I was prescribed the 50mg, and no, I was on 100mg for a year and never seemed to have any notable benefits. Why the 50mg worked for me, I still don’t totally understand because that’s such a low dose, but hopefully it does the trick this time. I think I could have increased that 50mg and still felt OK, until I got to a point where my E2 went too high. I honestly just think I aromotize a ton, and e2 effects me a ton. I have awful gyno that I got before I started TRT when I was 13 or 14, maybe my body is wired and uses E2 more than it should or doesn’t bind up enough of it. Only way to find out is try.
50mg worked bc you have low shbg. Your aromatized E2 floats around free causing sides. I have the same issue and a lot of men do too.
I would first try 40mg e3d for 6-8 weeks and reassess. Really pay attention to your mental sex drive and bodies response.
Then figure out if that’s still too much test.
Not everyone needs 800+ TT levels to feel good or to have things click.
I don’t think he needs to do anything different then what has worked for years in the past.
If it doesn’t work, then assess from there.
But all he should do is make the no-brainer move and do what has made him feel best already.
So here is my updated protocol, without calling defy, however when I was on the phone with Defy his exact advice was to lower E2 and TT. He wanted me to lower my dose from 150mg a week to 110mg. To manage my E2 he recommended taking an AI. I don’t want to take an AI due to potential side effects, and he said the goal is to get my E2 down to about 30. To do that without an AI, I’m going to lower my dose to 84mg a week. If this works and I feel better, I think it’s safe to say that I’m very sensitive to E2, and exogenous Test makes me aromatize too much for a higher dosage. If taking 84mg a week does the the trick, and I feel better with a lower TT, FT and E2 level, I’m going to try nandrolone. It’s supposed to raise T levels without raising E2. I’m hoping that a lower dose is the key, and that when I was young and taking that 50mg a week, I felt better becuase my body wasn’t overloaded with E2, and worked fine with a lower TT and FT level. I’m also hoping that maybe as good as I felt at the 50mg a week dose, I could feel even better with nandrolone, because I’m able to raise my T levels without raising e2, getting to a point in my levels that I’ve never achieved and making me feel better than I ever have. I know it’s a long shot, and for now nothing changes for 6 - 8 weeks. I’ll be doing the 84mg a week, split into daily doses, and dropping the AI. I’ll get labs after 8 weeks, and see what the labs are looking like and how I’m feeling. I know lowering the dose is an unpopular opinion on the forum, but lower dosing is what did the trick before and I think it’s worth trying it again. To everyone who thinks E2 isn’t important, or I shouldn’t worry about it, I’m aware that this opinion exists, so if you’re going to post that, just know I’m aware that many people feel that way, and I don’t agree.
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