Kerry to Call for IMPEACHMENT

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

Pay attention Joe, I said I wasn’t in either party.

On that note, how come I see a lot of baseless emotional hyperbole out of the defenders of the right?

How come these folks can’t address the issues, admit possibilities, peek into corners and try to see what may or may not be possible under various circumstances?

I mean, lets get real here, these are the same people suggesting that Nixon did nothing serious. Is it not even conceivable that Bush cherry picked his intelligence?

Is he some type of faultless angel who could never do anything even slightly awry?

If your name isn’t Sasquatch, can’t you at least play “what if” once in a while to allow that “if” something had been done incorrectly, that in such a case it should be addressed?

Would you not want cases of seriously inappropriate behavior to be uncovered, “if” it was present?

I obviously don’t know what did or did not occur in this regard, and neither does anyone else here arguing about it.

However, it is completely appropriate to look at government and the human beings placed in positions of responsibility carefully, to ensure they aren’t doing improper things with their power.

Let me raise the issue before you do, yes, Clinton got caught. It happend because people heard about a possible issue and investigated it. This is the process… isn’t it?

All that claptrap being said, this is all a big hoax isn’t it? Nothing is going to come of this supposed call for impeachment and we’ve all be yanking our puds over a non-event anyway.

Sigh.

122

You know, it doesn’t really matter at this point in the game if GW lied or had faulty intel the fact is we are in Iraq now. Our focus should be on doing what is best for the Iraqis and our troops.

Investigate the matter find out what the facts are, if that is really possible, and then act.

The question of whether we should be there or not is rather mute at this point. There were/are several reasons why we should be there, they may not have been on the short list but all people deserve freedom from tyranny. I too doubt that freedom for the Iraqis was on the list but hey its a by-product and one that we should be applauding.

123

I’m so fucking sick of this republican and democrat bullshit. If bush fucked up he deserves to be punished. When no weapons were found in Iraq he just put the blame on the intelligence he received. Bush is the leader of the whole fucking free world and he cant even get his intelligence straight. Democrats and republicans are going to fight about whether this document is legit, but the evidence is right before our fucking eyes. For once I would like congress to agree on an issue because it is good for Americans.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about a BJ he got from some fat bitch, nobody was harmed though. Bush lied (although nobody will ever admit it) and many soldiers died. Simply stated there is NO concrete evidence why we should be in Iraq. If bush is such a good leader then he should take responsibility for his mistakes and make this situation better, otherwise impeach the Motherfucker.

124

Well then, change the constitution so that you can start all the wars of agression you desire in the name of freedom and democracy…

125

vroom

Why keep it up? I have stated and continue to state that if a what if is plausible–fine.

When I take issue it is simply becuase some of the what ifs proposed have been stretched a little to much to be considered in debate.

Once again, not every what if means it is a deep thought. Billions of scenarios exist, but let’s try to keep them realistic.

Mt one and only contention to date on this has been the memo comes from a suspect source and was published from another so I gave it little credence. I find that a logical stand. You want to give it more.

Also remember, as was just stated, this was an item from aljazeeras. Not reputable at this time concerning Bush policies.

What if the administration did wrong by the people and especially the soldiers, they should answer, no doubt.

What if this is truly a piece of garbage. Then what. Nothing happens. All of the character assassination that has gone on just gets a pass. With all the people trying to find blame on this guy and in 4 years none has been found. And remember, per most characterizations this is not a smart man. You say most on the right look with blinders. Well, you on the left have looked for shit with a microscope and can’t find anything tangible to say this was a conspiracy of any kind or magnitude.

126

Sasquatch,

Decent post, much better!

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
When I take issue it is simply becuase some of the what ifs proposed have been stretched a little to much to be considered in debate. [/quote]

That’s your opinion, you are welcome to it. However, it isn’t a universal opinion – so let others discuss what they want… including me, thank you.

The report of impeachment comes from a non-reputable source. The memo appears to be published in the Times, or at least on their web site. I don’t hold the Times with the same contempt I do Al-Jazeera.

Therefore, I give some level of possibility to the factuality of the memo itself, but I really don’t think I’d worry too much about what Al-Jazeera says may happen because of it.

Cool, you’d be surprised how many people are not willing to go so far.

Well, here you may have to choose, instead of having it both ways. What happened to Kerry during the last election was a wonderful piece of character assasination. If that is okay, then going through stuff like this with a fine tooth comb should be okay as well.

This stuff really does happen both ways, it isn’t all one sided as plenty of folks would like to believe.

127

[quote]pbc wrote:
I?m so fucking sick of this republican and democrat bullshit. If bush fucked up he deserves to be punished. When no weapons were found in Iraq he just put the blame on the intelligence he received. Bush is the leader of the whole fucking free world and he cant even get his intelligence straight. Democrats and republicans are going to fight about whether this document is legit, but the evidence is right before our fucking eyes. For once I would like congress to agree on an issue because it is good for Americans.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about a BJ he got from some fat bitch, nobody was harmed though. Bush lied (although nobody will ever admit it) and many soldiers died. Simply stated there is NO concrete evidence why we should be in Iraq. If bush is such a good leader then he should take responsibility for his mistakes and make this situation better, otherwise impeach the Motherfucker.[/quote]

Flawless logic. And absolutely no ABB rhetoric. This has to be the post of the month.

128

[quote]Snoop wrote:
You know, it doesn’t really matter at this point in the game if GW lied or had faulty intel the fact is we are in Iraq now. Our focus should be on doing what is best for the Iraqis and our troops.

Investigate the matter find out what the facts are, if that is really possible, and then act.

The question of whether we should be there or not is rather mute at this point. There were/are several reasons why we should be there, they may not have been on the short list but all people deserve freedom from tyranny. I too doubt that freedom for the Iraqis was on the list but hey its a by-product and one that we should be applauding.[/quote]

Since you have such a C’est la vie attitude about the history that brought us to where we are at and you feel everybody deserves freedom from tyranny. Would you be willing to risk your life to go to N. Korea to liberate a million people living under Tyranny!

An honest question would you please give me an honest answer? Would you be willing if the powers that be decided we were going to N. Korea would you be willing to leave your family Snoop and offer up your life? The North Korean are under just as horrific rule as the Iraqi’s were and they definitely have WMD’s. No question there.

129

[quote]vroom wrote:
Sasquatch,

Decent post, much better!

sasquatch wrote:
When I take issue it is simply becuase some of the what ifs proposed have been stretched a little to much to be considered in debate.

That’s your opinion, you are welcome to it. However, it isn’t a universal opinion – so let others discuss what they want… including me, thank you.

My one and only contention to date on this has been the memo comes from a suspect source and was published from another so I gave it little credence. I find that a logical stand. You want to give it more.

The report of impeachment comes from a non-reputable source. The memo appears to be published in the Times, or at least on their web site. I don’t hold the Times with the same contempt I do Al-Jazeera.

Therefore, I give some level of possibility to the factuality of the memo itself, but I really don’t think I’d worry too much about what Al-Jazeera says may happen because of it.

What if the administration did wrong by the people and especially the soldiers, they should answer, no doubt.

Cool, you’d be surprised how many people are not willing to go so far.

What if this is truly a piece of garbage. Then what. Nothing happens. All of the character assassination that has gone on just gets a pass.

Well, here you may have to choose, instead of having it both ways. What happened to Kerry during the last election was a wonderful piece of character assasination. If that is okay, then going through stuff like this with a fine tooth comb should be okay as well.

This stuff really does happen both ways, it isn’t all one sided as plenty of folks would like to believe.[/quote]

When you reference a what if to me, I should be able to respond. not arguing–we are moving in the right direction here–

I had nothing to do with the Kerry campaign, nor does it relate here. That is polotics. It certainly doesn’t make it right. To run for any high office now you have to be ready to defend your entire past and that includes spins put on it as some are want to do. Had his answers to many of those questions been better, quite frankly most of those issues would have died down or gone away. The only thing he really couldn’t shake was flip-flopper and that spelled doom given the times.

What did Bush’s alcohol or drug problem in his past have to do with anything. Mud is slung-I don’t care for the way elections have turned, but it also ocurrs on both sides.

Not that you are on a side

130

Brother E wrote:

“To address your point about the raw Intel that everybody had, the main difference is that yours truly dubya is the one who took us to war over it.”

Main difference: He acted on it.

“Clinton and other senators Republican and Democrat thought that Saddam may have had WMD’s as has been stated before we gave him much of THE chemical and biological weapons he had.”

What are you talking about?

Did you read my recent thread.

Check the dates.

Or, are you saying that between 2000 and 2003, we gave him the WMD???

“The difference is in the interpretation of said raw Intel.”

No difference at all. Read the direct quotes.

Difference is acting upon a “grave and gathering danger.”

"To feel that he had the capability to throw some anthrax or mustard gas laden artillery shells at his enemies on the field of battle is understandable. Remember even his scuds during the first gulf war were blind lobs into Israel.

To compare that to the imminent threat that he could launch an attack on American shores like the Bush Cheney administration was feeding the public was an outright manipulation to sway the American people."

Bullshit. How hard is it to transport WMD into countries?

Think briefcase.

“Remember Condy saying Saddam could launch a WMD attack on American shores within 45 minutes. Pure bullshit!”

Wasn’t it British Intelligence saying that?

Oh, wait, must have been paid off by the Bushes.

“Combine that with the mood after 9/11 which was so brilliantly capitalized on by Cheney and Bush.”

You mean the surge of proactive thinking?

“At that time anyone Repub or Dem who dared go against the grain would have been committing political suicide. So you had a bunch of pussy assed dems trying to survive and not having the balls to call bullshit on this administration that was running amok!”

Would have been hard to do considering they all said the same damn thing.

Again, reference my earlier thread.

“Al Gore was one of the few who had the balls to speak up true he had nothing to lose, but at least he spoke up, more then I can say for that pussy Kerry. But the slander machine of the neocons made sure to label and stamp anyone who spoke up against the administration as “crazy” “loony” “out of their minds”.”

Didn’t you vote for both of them?

Sad.

“Now three years later when none of their bullshit panned out none of it.”

You mean non-declared WMD in Iraq? Non-declared convential weapons? Massive human rights violations? Massive bribery of the “international community.” People yearning for free elections? al qaeda in Iraq (before and after the invasion)? More evidence of terrorist cells operating in Iraq prior to the invasion?

Do you think about this shit before you type it?

“They still look make themselves look clean and have cheerleaders like you guys perpetuating their lies.”

Which lies are those?

“Oh, and Montrosefan get those awe inspiring pics up we want to see em! Also, if you are going to make a post calling people losers you should get the spelling right no matter how much your war hawk brothers here want to cover for you.”

Are you back on the gear?

You seem to be reverting back to pre-election prickdom. Not to mention, willfully ignoring plenty of things.

JeffR

131

[quote]vroom wrote:
On that note, how come I see a lot of baseless emotional hyperbole out of the defenders of the right?

How come these folks can’t address the issues, admit possibilities, peek into corners and try to see what may or may not be possible under various circumstances?

Sigh.[/quote]

Vroom maybe it’s just me, but why do you have to say queer shit like “peek into corners” God I don’t know, it’s just your whole attitude like you think your some superslueth or something.

heres how all posts containing your material goes…
Topic gets posted for discussion, what does everyone think of X. people give some opinions, and even how they came up with them. Some people give supporting evedence, or use some cut and paste, or link strategies to enhance information exchange and ultimately try to keep everyone else as informed as possible. Vroom pops in with one or two or more, conspiracy theories, all negative to the right, conservative, or the administration.

Then gets attacked for not having anything of value to add, by me, joe, rainman, zeb, thunder, sasquatch, jeffr, etc… Then the rest of the thread is hijacked into vroom defending his perry mason like existance in trying to ask us questions that unless we have some resident CIA, FBI, INS, congressmen, senators, spies, russian spies, Iraqi spies, Al-queda spies, etc… will never be answered only speculated on. So columbo, (probably more like monk) what does any of us gain by throwing around unsubstantiable ideas about possibilities that we may or may not ever know? It just seems like it’s more likely that you would like to paint the right, admin, repoubs, etc… in as poor a light as possible, and this is your tactic because you can fall back on your defense of just tossing ideas out every time.

Really what goes through your mind when you type out… peek into corners?

V

132

jerffy, yes, I did vote for them both and would again in a New York second over Bush. Seriously, jerff, do you work for the administration?

I am being completely serious (not sarcastic) when I say, I have never seen anyone display the zealotry you do for this administration other then a Taliban, or an SS officer would to their respective masters. Again, in all seriousness I say this.

You literally come to pieces like a brainwashed eunuch if anyone doesn’t hold the same opinion of this administration as you do.

133

[quote]vroom wrote:
all people deserve freedom from tyranny.

Well then, change the constitution so that you can start all the wars of agression you desire in the name of freedom and democracy…[/quote]

Where did I say that I wanted to go to war to free all the people in the world from tyranny? I said that it is a by-product of the war. I also stated that it was not the reason that we went to war. The reason given to us was WMD.

134

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Snoop wrote:
You know, it doesn’t really matter at this point in the game if GW lied or had faulty intel the fact is we are in Iraq now. Our focus should be on doing what is best for the Iraqis and our troops.

Investigate the matter find out what the facts are, if that is really possible, and then act.

The question of whether we should be there or not is rather mute at this point. There were/are several reasons why we should be there, they may not have been on the short list but all people deserve freedom from tyranny. I too doubt that freedom for the Iraqis was on the list but hey its a by-product and one that we should be applauding.

Since you have such a C’est la vie attitude about the history that brought us to where we are at and you feel everybody deserves freedom from tyranny. Would you be willing to risk your life to go to N. Korea to liberate a million people living under Tyranny!

An honest question would you please give me an honest answer? Would you be willing if the powers that be decided we were going to N. Korea would you be willing to leave your family Snoop and offer up your life? The North Korean are under just as horrific rule as the Iraqi’s were and they definitely have WMD’s. No question there.

[/quote]

No I would not offer up to go to N. Korea or any where else in the world to fight for others’ freedom; nor would I support our government doing the same thing. I said people deserve freedom I didn’t say that we should provide it for them.

I can see however how we as a nation would benefit from living in a world that was free from tyranny; don’t you?

I do think we need to get together with China and kick Kim il’s ass all over the place but thats another thread and not totally related to human rights.

135

Snoop,

Sorry man, that was the impression I got from your post.

–

Veg,

I’m curious, when you are out camping, do you go looking for sleeping bears so you can poke them with a stick? :wink:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Vroom maybe it’s just me, but why do you have to say queer shit like “peek into corners” God I don’t know, it’s just your whole attitude like you think your some superslueth or something. [/quote]

Where do you guys come up with this crap? Maybe I ask questions because so many people are so damned offended when questions get asked. Why is that, anyway?

Oh yes, I see that all the time. Yeah, that’s pretty accurate. Uh-huh.

Oh, so is that what this is all about. Only things that are “substantiated” are worth discussing? Who decides what is or isn’t substantiated? Is it only what the (sitting) administration specifies? How would Clinton ever have been found out if people didn’t ask questions about unsubstantiated facts?

Substantiation comes after asking the questions… or opening your eyes to possibilities, or peeking into corners, or a million other phrases that you probably don’t like.

If you can’t tell, especially based on the recent exchange above by Sasquatch and myself, all I’m after is an honest conversation. I ask “what if”, Sasquatch says “then” instead of throwing it out as some type of political attack.

Answer the question, honestly and apoliticaly, from time to time, you might be surprised where it leads.

Alternately, focus on bitching about my style of “conversation”. That too is pretty useful and productive around these parts… based on how often it occurs.

I’m guessing some people don’t like having their assumptions questioned… too bad.

136

[quote]vroom wrote:

Where do you guys come up with this crap? Maybe I ask questions because so many people are so damned offended when questions get asked. Why is that, anyway?
.[/quote]

who’s “you guys”?

137

[quote]vroom wrote:
Snoop,

Sorry man, that was the impression I got from your post.

–

Veg,

I’m curious, when you are out camping, do you go looking for sleeping bears so you can poke them with a stick? :wink:

Vegita wrote:
Vroom maybe it’s just me, but why do you have to say queer shit like “peek into corners” God I don’t know, it’s just your whole attitude like you think your some superslueth or something.

Where do you guys come up with this crap? Maybe I ask questions because so many people are so damned offended when questions get asked. Why is that, anyway?

Some people give supporting evedence, or use some cut and paste, or link strategies to enhance information exchange and ultimately try to keep everyone else as informed as possible.

Oh yes, I see that all the time. Yeah, that’s pretty accurate. Uh-huh.

Then the rest of the thread is hijacked into vroom defending his perry mason like existance in trying to ask us questions that unless we have some resident CIA, FBI, INS, congressmen, senators, spies, russian spies, Iraqi spies, Al-queda spies, etc… will never be answered only speculated on.

Oh, so is that what this is all about. Only things that are “substantiated” are worth discussing? Who decides what is or isn’t substantiated? Is it only what the (sitting) administration specifies? How would Clinton ever have been found out if people didn’t ask questions about unsubstantiated facts?

Substantiation comes after asking the questions… or opening your eyes to possibilities, or peeking into corners, or a million other phrases that you probably don’t like.

If you can’t tell, especially based on the recent exchange above by Sasquatch and myself, all I’m after is an honest conversation. I ask “what if”, Sasquatch says “then” instead of throwing it out as some type of political attack.

Answer the question, honestly and apoliticaly, from time to time, you might be surprised where it leads.

Alternately, focus on bitching about my style of “conversation”. That too is pretty useful and productive around these parts… based on how often it occurs.

I’m guessing some people don’t like having their assumptions questioned… too bad.[/quote]

Dude, people came foward WRT Clinton getting blowjobs. Obviously that is investigateable. This isn’t the case at all, this is a statement that tony blair made that is being spun out of context for political purposes. I am all for finding out if shit is going down, but not in the same frothy vigor that you like to go about it. I swear the whitehouse gardener that gets fired could come up with a hair brain story of torture by GWB himself and you would lead this big internet inquisition of the possibility that GWB anally raped this guy or if he simply slapped him in the ass a few times. When the overwhelming probability would be that it was a disgruntled worker who wanted to start some shit.

You see the posts you bring forth cannot be discussed like you think they can, all one could possibly do is respond in the like with another “possible” but different scenario. They do not further discussion, because one cannot substantiate any of it, it’s all pie in the sky daydreaming.

On a side not of personal importance, I don’t mind the porn star king title, but where do you guys get the bongsmoker thing? I havenet smoked in a good 5 yeras and only did for a few years back in school. Really, it’s cute, and derogitory, but at least come up with an accurate nickname if you want to slam me.

V

138

I think you are all missing the fact that the story that Kerry is going to call for impeachment is utter horseshit.

When did you guys start believing aljazeera?

139

Brother E.,

Thanks for the response.

I have no problem when we differ in opinion.

It’s when you make false claims then get aggressive.

Things like: “none of their bullshit panned out” or making some vague reference to us supplying weapons to saddam AFTER clinton was in control. Or, one of my favorites, asserting that the Administration used 9/11 to as an “excuse” to go to war in Iraq.

You are far more intelligent than this. That crap is horseshit and you know it. You let your hatred of all things Bush warp your judgement.

Anyway, respond to my previous post to you.

You are acting stunned, like a duck hit on the head.

Come back to us, Brother E.!!!

JeffR

140

Snoop wrote:

“Where did I say that I wanted to go to war to free all the people in the world from tyranny? I said that it is a by-product of the war. I also stated that it was not the reason that we went to war. The reason given to us was WMD.”

Good God!!!

There it is again.

Snoop I order you over to the new thread that I started Today entitled, “War aims in Iraq.”

Read it!!!

Then stop saying WMD was the only reason!!!

JeffR