Just Crying About Careers

Somewhat off the topic, but how did you feel about going back to school at your age? I’m 35 and quit my PT job to go back and finish my bio degree. My ultimate goal is to make it into PA school.

I’m not finding most of the academic stuff too hard yet (well okay, except chemistry) but sometimes I feel like I’m a bit behind in life…here I am in my mid-30’s in the bookstore standing in line waiting to check out.

How did you make it through the “what the fuck am I doing?” times?

lol sorry to crash your whining thread with my whining post. Maybe we should have a good cry, eat a pint of Ben and Jerry’s, and then man up.

I never thought too much about going back to school until I went to the dry cleaner to have my lab coats laundered and the lady asked me if I was a doctor, and I told her I was in med school. SHe said : Good for you, at YOUR age". I was stunned. I was like “what do you mean, at MY age?”. Then I felt old.

School was hard. I almost quit every week. But it went by and now everyone thinks it is the coolest thing. My wife and kids were very supportive.

Life is an adventure and you can either have a midlife crisis or steer your boat into adventure.

Looking back I think PA is a great choice. Just base salary is good. many states you are essentially the same as a family medicine doctor. And I did not know until recently how many cool specialities PA’s have : anesthesiology,emergency etc. They are one year speciality programs and emergency PA’s often make $150K. Compare that to 4 years of med school , and then 3 years of emergency medicine residency. Good choice.

I turned down the small midwestern town prematch contract. It was gut wrenching. I felt sick for days. In my mind it was a good thing - small town (which I hate) but safe, near family (2 hour drive), cold (which I hate), good pay, great savings plan for retirement, slow paced hospital with light work load,4 weeks of paid vacation, no real education in procedures (colonoscopy, vasectomy, etc).

My mind saw it as a good idea - close to family, good money. my mind said medicine is still just a job, and jobs should have good pay and good vacation so you can do whats important such as be around family. But I had no peace about it.

Yesterday I got a prematch offer at a small town in the south, crime filled. Teaches lots of procedures. Busy busy hospital. 3 weeks of vacation, good pay but no savings plan. Far from family (18 hour drive). Yet I felt peace about it.

I am not sure if I made a good choice and feel peaceful or have an innately self destructive streak and am happy to self destruct.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
I never thought too much about going back to school until I went to the dry cleaner to have my lab coats laundered and the lady asked me if I was a doctor, and I told her I was in med school. SHe said : Good for you, at YOUR age". I was stunned. I was like “what do you mean, at MY age?”. Then I felt old.

School was hard. I almost quit every week. But it went by and now everyone thinks it is the coolest thing. My wife and kids were very supportive.

Life is an adventure and you can either have a midlife crisis or steer your boat into adventure.

Looking back I think PA is a great choice. Just base salary is good. many states you are essentially the same as a family medicine doctor. And I did not know until recently how many cool specialities PA’s have : anesthesiology,emergency etc. They are one year speciality programs and emergency PA’s often make $150K. Compare that to 4 years of med school , and then 3 years of emergency medicine residency. Good choice.[/quote]

You just basically hit the nail on why I chose PA. I want the autonomy and control without all the paperwork hassle and debt of an MD :slight_smile: The money’s not bad either, but my main goal is a challenging career with an endless learning curve. I’m pretty much stuck at the level of care I can provide and there are so many facets of medicine that interest me that I’m not allowed anywhere near.

Another option was nurse practitioner, which is similar in scope and also allows for you to be the primary care giver in certain situations.

I am a bit worried as it is an aggressive program, fast paced, etc. I’m still pretty young at heart though and don’t have all the external pressures that many guys my age have (mortgage, marriage, kids, etc).

Go for it. Yeah there is nothing more mind numbing than monotony.

THere are alot of specialty fellowships for PA’s : surgical, emergency medicine, anesthesiology , dermatology, etc. Lots of variety. And they aer one year. Medical residency for derm is 4 years, anesthesiologty is 4 years, emergency medicine is 3 years - all after 4 years of medical school. Screw that.

Dermatology is four years? Dermatology? I’m not implying at all that it’s not a very complex course at all; that just really surprised me!

Hey Fawkes,

Could you elaborate more on what residency is like, in terms of stress and how much time you actually have to stay in the hospital?

I am a pre-med student right now. Although I am set on going through with this route, I question if i truly LOVE this field.

[quote]MsM wrote:
Dermatology is four years? Dermatology? I’m not implying at all that it’s not a very complex course at all; that just really surprised me![/quote]

It is surprisingly complex. A rash is not just a rash. Many diseases have skin conditions associated with them. There are easily as many skin diseases as there are internal medicine diseases.

Again is that your real pic - very nice.

[quote]sloh wrote:
Hey Fawkes,

Could you elaborate more on what residency is like, in terms of stress and how much time you actually have to stay in the hospital?

I am a pre-med student right now. Although I am set on going through with this route, I question if i truly LOVE this field. [/quote]

It depends. Intern year (PGY1 , first year of residency, post graduate year 1) typically sucks.

PGY 1 for surgery - 100 hours week average. Law prohibits more than 80 hours week average but all programs violate it and get around it.

PGY1 for everthing else is usually about 60-85 hours per week average. Some are lighter and kinder - some are more malignant. During your 3rd and 4th year try and rotate at hospitals in areas you want to do residency in, and you can ask around and see what that hospital and program is like.


A bad week may be something like , in patient internal medicine :
monday - preround at 5 AM, see 8 patients, collect data, try to write notes but can’t finish. Meet with attending physician and rest of team for rounds at 7 AM - present the information on the patients you have been assigned to, depending on the attending get verbally reprimanded or a surly look for not finishing notes. Round with team until 9:30 - some attendings love to teach and will teach you alot at this time, others don’t like to teach and you won’t learn much. Then finish notes, order labs, consults with specialists. Noon - lecture with lunch. 1-6 clinic. (13 hours)

Tuesday - preround, round, clinic, then oncall in the hospital until noon the next day. From 7 PM until 7 AM get about 30-100 pages from nurses with questions - can this patient have Tylenol, does this patient need restraints etc etc etc. At 2 AM go to the residents room and lay down to sleep. 3:00 Am get woken up by emergency dept because they have someone with acute renal failure they want you to admit and take care of. 5:30 Am consider sleep but realize you have to go and pass patients off to the incoming team. Noon you leave. (30 hours)

Wednesday go in for clinic from noon until 5:30. (6 hours)

Thursday repeat Monday. Get pages from nurses at 1 AM who thought you were on call but you aren’t. (13 hours)

Friday repeat Tuesday - admit a very sick child. Keep checking on them in between all your work and tell them its going to be okay. See them as your first patient 5:30 Am no matter what, breathe a sigh of relief they are alright - the rest of the day seems so much better because they are alright. Supposed to get off at noon, but incoming team is slow and you don’t get out until 1. Sleep a few hours, go to the movies - get page from nurse in middle of movie because she thought you were the resident on call. (31 hours, but that last hour from 12 to 1 seemed like 6 hours)

Week total was 92 hours. The next week so that they are in compliance with the law you will only work about 70 hours - so that it averages 80 hours.

Some residencies like Physical medicine and rehab (PMR) or psyche - you will often go in at 7 and be done at 2 PM. Those residencies are notorious after the first year of only working like 35 hours per week - I have literally seen psyche residents peel out of the parking lot at 2 AM, knowing I am there until much much later. When oncall for internal medicine you will see them the next day coming in 7 AM the next day for their NEXT shift while you are still finishing yours from the day before.

So PGY2 etc can vary alot from residency to residency. Dermatology, radiology, psychiatry,pathology, PMR , anesthesiology are all pretty darn cake. Family medicine, internal medicine, etc are at the upper limits of what is legal to make you work usually - although maybe 30% of all family medicine residencies only have you work perhaps 60 hours per week even your intern year. you just have to look around and ask around. Surgery is always crazy - plan on literally doing surgery non-stop some days for 18 hours. Obstetrics sucks in terms of the hours - you will get called in ALOT at 2 AM to deliver a baby.

Stress? It depends on what you find stressful - someone is suited for all those specialties - those suited for surgery love it (like my brother, loves the OR), and working 30 hours per week in psychiatry talking about feelings would kill him. If you PM me or something I can point you towards some posts that might help you make a decision in some doctor websites.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:
MsM wrote:
Dermatology is four years? Dermatology? I’m not implying at all that it’s not a very complex course at all; that just really surprised me!

It is surprisingly complex. A rash is not just a rash. Many diseases have skin conditions associated with them. There are easily as many skin diseases as there are internal medicine diseases.

Again is that your real pic - very nice.
[/quote]

That is me and thank you kindly. A rash isn’t just a rash? lol Okay, I didn’t know that.

So, have you made a decision regarding your one offer yet? It appeared to me that you would take it.

[quote]Fawkes wrote:

. I hate the thought of living in bumfuck snowy midwest again. 3 years may not seem like much to many of you, but I figure I have about 20 good years left and then I am in Depends undergarments. 3 years is a huge chunk of those 20 years.

I so wish I had not left my old career…

There is not much anyone can say. It was my choice. I just did not foresee this and wish it was not so.[/quote]

I am a total stranger to you and I make an impertinent suggestion: see a career counselor…now.

If you were young and single, advice would be cheap and easy:

  1. More specialty training, in something you want to do. No one I know in the last 30 years regretted having more training, regardless of what they wound up doing in medicine. Consider it the price of freedom…the freedom to choose your fate.
  2. Do your training where you will want to live. It is easier to make those connections and get established, rather than trying to do establish a connection by long distance.

But you are not so young, and you have a family. A residency will be torture for you if it does not lead you to your freedom, where you want to live, and back to your family.
Family practice is respected most in small towns. As a business model, it is tenuous, and threatened by insurance schemes, academic institutions, and internal medicine practices, especially outside of small towns. If you do not want to live in a small town again, think about specialization–at least then you will have options.

It may not be too late to consider, with a career counselor, a rotating internship, which would then leave open other possibilities for you.