[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Oh yes, Unity School certainly had a way of cutting through the weeds, didn’t they?
They did have an positive influence on me way back when. I didn’t really spend a lot of time on their writings, not necessary. In retrospect though, I’d say they made a short but potent impact on me. Permanently burned away a lot of crap, thank God. Very grateful for that.
Whether you agree with it or not really doesn’t matter. I would say there is a Biblical basis for their teaching. But the amazing thing about the Bible and its thumpers, is that everyone can find passages to support their position. Piece of cake really.
But considering that everything else about existence on the planet has evolved over the past 2000 years, why wouldn’t the means to salvation/atonement have evolved as well?[/quote]
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Unsurprisingly, I continue to disagree with everything you just said. Why bother with the bible or Jesus at all? Just believe whatever mysticism suits your fancy.[/quote]
I happen to love the Bible and have HUGE respect for it. The Bible is a Divinely inspired, magnificent work. Among other things, it describes the incredible life of Jesus, our gracious Way-shower, and His life example of atonement and salvation.
However, I believe other peoples means of atonement are generally none of my business because God is in charge there. Who among us would judge the movement of Divinity in the hearts and souls and lives of others? (Unless, of course, we are on a control/power trip to defend our familiar religious tradition). God encompasses the entire Universe! He’s got other resources, shall we say. He can competently sustain, inspire and lead His children home with or without the Bible and/or Jesus, if needed.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Unsurprisingly, I continue to disagree with everything you just said. Why bother with the bible or Jesus at all? Just believe whatever mysticism suits your fancy.[/quote]
I happen to love the Bible and have HUGE respect for it. The Bible is a Divinely inspired, magnificent work. Among other things, it describes the incredible life of Jesus, our gracious Way-shower, and His life example of atonement and salvation.
However, I believe other peoples means of atonement are generally none of my business because God is in charge there. Who among us would judge the movement of Divinity in the hearts and souls and lives of others? (Unless, of course, we are on a control/power trip to defend our familiar religious tradition). God encompasses the entire Universe! He’s got other resources, shall we say. He can competently sustain, inspire and lead His children home with or without the Bible and/or Jesus, if needed. [/quote]
He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.
[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.[/quote]Ohhhhhh yes there is. =] You just wait. Go read up on the Unity School of Christianity. I owned a bunch of their books years ago and did a fair amount of studying on their philosophy. Which is what it is. Get your hands on their “Metaphysical Bible Dictionary”. It’ll explain everything.
[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.[/quote]Ohhhhhh yes there is. =] You just wait. Go read up on the Unity School of Christianity. I owned a bunch of their books years ago and did a fair amount of studying on their philosophy. Which is what it is. Get your hands on their “Metaphysical Bible Dictionary”. It’ll explain everything.
[/quote]
[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.[/quote]Ohhhhhh yes there is. =] You just wait. Go read up on the Unity School of Christianity. I owned a bunch of their books years ago and did a fair amount of studying on their philosophy. Which is what it is. Get your hands on their “Metaphysical Bible Dictionary”. It’ll explain everything.
[/quote]
They have come a long way since I last saw them…over 10 years ago.
All I remember was a couple of pamphlets and Eric Butterworth’s The Power Within You.
(That’s the internet for ya!)
[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.[/quote]Ohhhhhh yes there is. =] You just wait. Go read up on the Unity School of Christianity. I owned a bunch of their books years ago and did a fair amount of studying on their philosophy. Which is what it is. Get your hands on their “Metaphysical Bible Dictionary”. It’ll explain everything.
[/quote]
I hope you aren’t serious.[/quote]Can I take my tongue outta my cheek now? =]
[quote]weby wrote:
judaism is a lie, Christianity is not.[/quote]If Judaism is a lie, wouldn’t that make Christianity a lie?[/quote]Yes.[/quote]Off topic, but this theological conundrum was part of the reason Hitler sought to replace Christianity with a revival of German paganism.[/quote]I don’t see a conundrum at all. The gospel of Jesus Christ IS Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic Judaism come to fruition. The glorious fulfillment of all the law and the prophets. Judaism, as practiced by the Old Testament saints (oh yes they were, see Hebrews 11) WAS true and was the tutor that led us to Christ. Galatians 3 with a bit more context this time:
[quote] 23-But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25-But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26-For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27-For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28-There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29-And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. [/quote]This is so clear all over the New Testament it is amazing that it could be missed, even by unbelievers. Though even some believers miss it. To you Jewbacca does belong the promise first. It is yours. It was entrusted to you for two thousand years. This also is all over the New Testament. Paul said he would almost surrender his own soul to see his brother Hebrews saved, but rejoiced as well that the gentiles were grafted into the tree of promise by faith.
I truly intend no jab at all, but this is simply THE GOSPEL to me. No conundrum here at all.
remind me what Hitler did to replace Christianity with a revival of German paganism.
concretely. in practice ?
beside allowing a bunch of SS’s boy scouts to play with runes and replica of bronze age swords ?
he used a few pre-existing neopagan groups to his advantage, and was impressed by the japanese State Shinto.
but that’s all.
remind me what Hitler did to replace Christianity with a revival of German paganism.
concretely. in practice ?
beside allowing a bunch of SS’s boy scouts to play with runes and replica of bronze age swords ?
he used a few pre-existing neopagan groups to his advantage, and was impressed by the japanese State Shinto.
but that’s all.
[/quote]
There were many different parallel approaches taken.
What you said, and more, occurred.
I think it was the “let’s try it all and see what sticks” approach.
Just off the top of my head, some of the approaches were:
The mysticism and mystery religion stuff was big in the SS and introduced in the Hitler Youth.
He had written for him a “bible” that removed all the Jewish parts out of it (short boook, I guess).
He was introducing Islam to troops and had Islamic Waffen SS (fit religion for a “warrior race” and has specfic anti-Jewish tenants as “prophet killers”))
Made sure the Protestant Churches were preaching “Replacement Theology,” pushed "Martin Luthers “of Jews and their lies” stuff, etc.
[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< He can LEAD people through various means to salvation, BUT salvation is found ONLY through Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states this and there is NO WAY around it.[/quote]Ohhhhhh yes there is. =] You just wait. Go read up on the Unity School of Christianity. I owned a bunch of their books years ago and did a fair amount of studying on their philosophy. Which is what it is. Get your hands on their “Metaphysical Bible Dictionary”. It’ll explain everything.
[/quote]
I hope you aren’t serious.[/quote]Can I take my tongue outta my cheek now? =]
[/quote]
Ah yes. Quite ridiculous to bring up the concepts of ‘universal’ or ‘unity’ in a spiritual context too many days before Christmas. Too much of a stretch, plus it’s boring! Especially in a thread that has ‘debate’ in the title!
A bit like wishing peace for the Middle East. Who are we kidding? Those guys love and live to fight each other! They don’t want peace anymore than we want a Universal Christ encompassing all mankind and all religions.
Perhaps we can think of Peace on Earth for All Mankind on Christmas Eve, but only for a nano-second I tell you! Then, we must get back to one-ups-manship.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Oh yes, Unity School certainly had a way of cutting through the weeds, didn’t they?
They did have an positive influence on me way back when. I didn’t really spend a lot of time on their writings, not necessary. In retrospect though, I’d say they made a short but potent impact on me. Permanently burned away a lot of crap, thank God. Very grateful for that.
Whether you agree with it or not really doesn’t matter. I would say there is a Biblical basis for their teaching. But the amazing thing about the Bible and its thumpers, is that everyone can find passages to support their position. Piece of cake really.
But considering that everything else about existence on the planet has evolved over the past 2000 years, why wouldn’t the means to salvation/atonement have evolved as well?[/quote]
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.[/quote]
True. And quite understandable. I prefer rock and roll after too much doctrine.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
A bit like wishing peace for the Middle East. Who are we kidding? Those guys love and live to fight each other! [/quote]
Sorry, I am not going to let that lazy moral equivalency bullshit pass.
As I’ve said many time before, if the arabs put down their weapons today, there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israeli put down their weapons today, the Israelis would all be dead tomorrow.
The Israelis have always been willing to let the arabs live and let live — have their own country, whatever — just agree to not use said country as a base of operations to try to kill us.
The arabs (or more correctly, the corrupt leaders who use the hostilities to keep power and get rich) will have none of that and insist on killing all the Jewish people.
The Israelis have always been willing to let the arabs live and let live — have their own country, whatever — just agree to not use said country as a base of operations to try to kill us.
The arabs (or more correctly, the corrupt leaders who use the hostilities to keep power and get rich) will have none of that and insist on killing all the Jewish people.[/quote]
Nasty arabs! Why do they want to kill the Jews?
Shalom
Yeah but the Christians stole the holiday from the pagans.
In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Partying, eating, drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ.
The Christians didn’t know the exact date of Jesus birth anyway, and they wanted converts to feed the kitty, so they high-jacked the Winter Solstice.