That is very strange as the LH active lobe of hCG is identical to the LH active lobe of LH.
That surgery will slow you down. Recovery will take time, so be careful as you heal.
TRT would help with recovery VS a catabolic state.
Have you ever used Rx corticosteroids?
These can be catabolic and lead to torn tissues.
Yeah I’m a little antsy with the sudden inactivity, but I know better than to push things, this is a marathon not a sprint.
Regarding Coricosteroids, I received a 1.5 ml of betamethasone late last month to treat a case of bronchitis. I also received a similar injection about three or four years ago, also for bronchitis. That injection years ago probably caused a lot of damage to my hip, but I don’t think it did anything bad for my trap. From what the the good doctor has deduced, years ago when I received some blunt trauma to my shoulder/collarbone area the force caused the edge of the scapula to scrape/shred the trap from the inside, as the damage to the muscle is on the internal side (forget the anatomical term here). Doc says that he sees this kind of trauma a lot.
I’m really looking forward to seeing how quickly I heal on Test injections, as I noticed a drastic improvement in wound healing when I was on Clomid. I also have a script for HGH to help with the healing, but I’m unsure if doing 1iu ED for only a month would actually do anything, and I don’t want to waste $300. (doc was unsure but thought it might be helpful)
HGH cost/benefit: If your IGF-1 was 200-250, 1iu may simply replace current production and leave IGF-1 mostly the same. If IGF-1 is low, then there is good cost/benefit.
Thanks man, I think you saved me $300, so I really appreciate it. I could get a script for greater quantity of HGH and do 2ius a day, but I don’t feel like spending $600 on it when I will probably see a lot of improvement from the very cheap testosterone.
Alright well yesterday was the first day of testosterone injections. We are starting out a little on the high side and will work our way down if need be. The current protocol is:
100mg of Test E3.5D
250cc HCG EoD
Given that today was the first day, I was injected with 200mg of Test, with all the following being the 100mg dose.
Not really thrilled about pinning with larger needles (they’re only .5" but still bigger than the slin pins), but I’m still doing SC so I won’t have to worry about scar tissue and I believe there is at least one study that shows SC has steadier absorption rates.
Pushing the plunger on the oil-based test is much more difficult than the water based HCG. I have successfully gotten the insurance to cover the test, but I’m not sure if that will actually be cheaper than GoodRx. We will see tomorrow when I stop by the pharmacy.
I will get labs done in two months, unless I start exhibiting some kind of symptom of something going wrong. I’m excited to see what it will feel like to have 600+ total test. Dr said things should start taking effect in about two weeks.
Had bloods drawn today. If you pointed a gun to my head an made me predict what the results will be I’d say I will have lower-than-expected test and higher e2. The test prediction is based on the fact that I’m a lot sorer now than I was when I was on clomid, and on clomid I was seeing TT of about 650. The e2 guess is based on that it’s harder to put my wedding band on (sign of water retention), nipples are a bit puffy, lethargy, and I’m a bit more emotional than I was before the test injections.
If this is this case, and I know I’m jumping the gun here but who doesn’t like a good prediction, I would guess it’s because my SHBG has always been near the bottom of the range. From what I understand, people with low SHBG tend to metabolize test faster, resulting in more aromatizing and less test in the bloodstream. I’ve also read that people with hypothyroid tend to have lower SHBG. This, in combination with the lower stomach acid, paints an interesting picture that I’m not sure how to read. Of course, I could be completely wrong and have results of low e2 and test in the 800s, we will see.
Doc said results should come in tomorrow, so we will see. I’m excited to see what the results actually are.
Not sure about the T levels, but it sure sounds like E2 is high. I’d like to put $10 on E2 being above 35.
I’m not sure what odds I’d give you but they wouldn’t have really been very good, 1 to 10? Anyways, looks like you’d have won that bet. Labs with ranges:
Total test: 1282 (300-1080) High
Free Test: 38.5 (38.5) High
SBHG: 23 (16-55.9)
E2: 72 (<63) High
Hermacrit: 46.8%
So while the E2 was as predicted, I was blown away at how high my test is. I guess I’m really killing myself on the track and in the weight room to be this sore with this high test?
I was expecting the Dr to have me lower the dose to 75mg E3.5D, but instead he wrote up a script for Adex, .5mg twice a week. …I will probably take it as .25mg EoD like I did with Clomid since that seemed to work well.
So I’m thinking of lowering the dose myself to 75mg, and then getting retested later to see how the e2 works out. But to be completely honest there is a part of me that is like “yeah motherfucker lets keep up this cruising dose and get ready to try a blast.” After trying so hard to reach a certain level in the gym for most of my life, it is so nice to see sudden gains in strength and size while losing fat. I can definitely see the appeal of steroids use now.
I would want that E2 level down asap. I would start by lowering the T dose and taking 1mg of Adex per week in divided doses (whatever is to your liking). Then I’d retest in 4-6 weeks and adjust as needed.
Do you have any high E2 symptoms? I’d be dead at those levels!
When you get E2 under control, your T will be a lot more effective and you might do well on the lower dose. You will feel like a new man.
SHBG is oddly low for E2=72
Sudden gains of strength can put connective tissue and muscle anchorage at risk as these avascular structures respond very slowly.
Sorry for not responding sooner, I never got a notification that someone had posted on this thread. I ended up trying as the dr recommended and didn’t lower my test dosage but added in .25mg of Adex EOD, that really helped with the symptoms.
While I wouldn’t have described myself as dead, I think the biggest symptom that was interfering with my ability to function was the lethargy. Seriously, a nap felt like a great thing all the time, throughout the day.
Dr has a policy of not retesting until two months after an alteration of meds, so we will have to wait and see.
…I think the main source of my E2 is the HCG I’m taking (400 iu Eod), as due to pharmacy fuckery I’ve had to go without for almost a month and have figured some things out, hopefully. Will expand on this in a separate post below.
That is a lot of hcg, but your T levels are pretty high. I’d still think about dropping your T dose a bit.
[quote=“KSman, post:69, topic:207176, full:true”]
When you get E2 under control, your T will be a lot more effective and you might do well on the lower dose. You will feel like a new man.[/quote]
I know with regards to well-being that getting E2 under control is perhaps more important than dialing in on optimal levels of Test, and I think I’ve figured out a factor in what is really setting off my e2 (my 400 ius of HCG EoD). I think this thought/subject matter is deserving of it’s own separate post so I’m following up this post with another post of what I’ve found out over the past month. But in a nutshell, I am going to try to lower my E2 by using less HCG. If that doesn’t prove helpful enough then I will reduce the dosage of Test. One thing at a time, and I think finding the right HCG dosage will be the key.
[quote]
SHBG is oddly low for E2=72[/quote]
Throughout all these tests I’ve had lowerish SHBG, so this lab result seems to conform with all the other labs. I guess I process stuff really quickly? This isn’t the first time I’ve had odd lab results, and it probably won’t be the last.
I’ve tried to be cautious with my training for fear of injuring myself. I’ve been doing the 531 BBB template and instead of trying to do heavier weights I’ve been adding volume with the last set. I figure adding volume is a safer approach to the joints. …As I type this I’m starting to doubt myself, this is correct no?
However, I did go from 2 days/wk of track work to 3 days/wk, and even though I scaled back the 531 by cutting out deadlifts and only doing 5 reps max of whatever weight on squats, I still managed to get a stress fracture of the third metatarsal 
I’m out from running for about eight weeks, and then will be super conservative on coming back into sprinting. This is an injury I don’t want to push too much too soon.
Here is what has happened that makes me think perhaps simply lowering the HCG will be a good way to start:
I added in the Adex, and that removed pretty much all of the symptoms. I could take my wedding band off ok, I lost prob 10 pounds of water weight, and all sexual side effects went away. Life was good. Then I ran out of HCG earlier this month.
Due to my Dr.'s office and pharmacies messing up, it took almost a month of phone calls and waiting to finally get my script refilled. In the meantime I maintained the Test and Adex protocol (100mg E3.5D and .25mg EoD, respectively). For the first week, I lost some more water weight, but nothing else really changed. During the second week, however, I noticed a sudden spike in libido as well as a dull ache in the balls. There were two days that were pretty crazy libido-wise. Near the end of the third week, however, I lost that libido, and have some more fatigue and libido is pretty much dead.
Finally got the HCG yesterday and had my first dose yesterday, Hopefully by balls stop aching soon.
…What I imagine happened, using libido as an e2 gauge, is that taking the HCG out made my e2 drop, and I fell into, and out of, the sweet spot. I thought that I could take a large dose of HCG without really worrying about e2 since my e2 was so low when I was on HCG monotherapy, but perhaps the combo of HCG and test was the real cause for the high e2.
Taking out HCG completely ended up lowering my e2 too much (at least, while on the Test/Adex protocol), but taking 400ius Eod seemed to raise it above the sweet spot. Perhaps dropping down to a lower dose of HCG, like the amount in KSman’s protocol, will lower my e2 just enough.
I’m not against lowering my dose of test, but my thought process is fine tuning the amount of HCG will be easier than fine tuning the Adex, and if I can get away with 200mg/wk of test then I’ll do it. If this doesn’t work out then I will lower the dose of test to 75 mg E3.5D, and if that proves to crash my e2 then I will take out the Adex.
You seem to be a logical guy with a good handle on the subject and a good feel for your own body. I will say, that in general, the exogenous hcg doesn’t cause the testes to make that much T. I realize your dose was high, so that’s an issue. As you stated above, the only way to know for sure is to change one variable at a time and keep running labs. Apart from all this, your T levels are very high and that could impact your health in negative ways. So, I would consider lowering the dose just for that reason. If you were to drop to 60mg twice per week you won’t notice any difference in how you feel and you’ll be decreasing the amount of E2 you have to deal with. Just my 2 cents.
Sigh. For being a logical guy (electrical engineer here), I have to admit my hesitancy to lowering my test dose is that I’m afraid I will go back to being soft and not as well muscled. Dem gainz in the mirror. I like it.
But you are right, I should probably start by lowering my test dose, and my health is probably at risk with this higher dose.
As much as it pains me, I guess I will lower my test dose first and see where that takes me. …I am pretty surprised with how reluctant I am to do this, but as you and KSman have pointed out lowering my test levels may actually make me feel better and be safer.
Just to make sure, if the test is 200mg/ml then .4 ml will have 80mg of test right? I was going to drop to 75mg until I just realized that would be .375ml which would be a bit difficult to eyeball on the syringe. I may end up going all the way down to 60 E3.5D like you mention but because I have lowerish SHBG I will see how 80mg works, as people with low SHBG seem to require more frequent injections of higher amounts of test.
You can also stay where you are and just closely monitor your hematocrit and any symptoms of BPH. If your HCT is too high you can donate blood regularly. I just can’t be bothered. Luckily for me, my TT and FT are quite high on 120mg/week.
Yes, 0.4ml of 200mg/ml = 80mg. Lol your the EE. I should be asking you math questions!
I am an odd duck, I would always get the mathematics aspects of problems, but arithmetic has always given me fits. Linear Algebra was the worst. Conceptually I would get it, and then I would compute 3+3 to equal 9 (rotating the + to an x due to dyslexia). I’ve developed a healthy distrust of my arithmetic skills.
Damnit dude if you give me an out from lowering my Test dosage I will jump at it, lol. Now I’m suddenly thinking I should just go with my original plan of trying a lower HCG dose first. …My Hermacrit was 46.8% with the TT being 1282. My understanding is that you only should be worried with levels >50%, is that right?
I should donate blood anyway. I have O+ blood type and am CMV negative. Before I found out I had low test/hermacrit levels I donated occasionally. Now that my hermacrit levels are good I will return to donating. Plus I get up to three hours of other time at work. That’s always good motivation as well.
You are cracking me up! Seriously, I lowered my T dose from 200 to 160 to 120 and my TT and FT are still both at the top of the ranges. You could also lower your T dose and maybe twice a year go on a T blast for 10 weeks. That will surely increase your musculature and in the long run is probably safer than running high T all year long.
Alright well today was the second pin of 80 mg instead of 100. I’m out of town so not using HCG at the moment (took 500 IUs right before getting in the car, balls started to feel better after this third pin).
Obviously it’s too soon to notice any changes, but I’m glad that I got over my fear of trying a reduced dose of test. Have no idea when my doc will want to run labs, so we will just have to try this out for two months or so and see how I feel.
Ok so it’s been about three weeks since I got back onto the HCG train, and almost two weeks of pinning 80mg of test instead of 100mg of test. I imagine it’s too soon for the reduced dosage to take effect but I thought I’d report in.
My balls stopped hurting, and I’ve gained about 7 pounds in two days (after losing like 12 pounds while waiting for the HCG). I would say that this is the HCG kicking in and my e2 coming back up. My libido hasn’t really come back yet, and I’m also finding myself becoming tired a lot and not really focused.
Not sure what the heck is going on, as I would say right now the symptoms I’m experiencing are from low test and high e2.
I suddenly worry that the lab had a bad reading because my body (with it’s low SBHG) devoured the IM test injection that was administered right before the lab. I know that doesn’t make sense, that it doesn’t work like that, but if my medical issues have taught me anything is that I rarely fall into the normal category.
I’m staying the course with the reduced test, and hopefully my doc will order labs soon.