[quote]ssn0 wrote:
If you join the military now you are NOT defending the U.S however you are helping certain policy makers to pursue an Imperial Agenda. [/quote]
Militaries have been serving political agendas forever. I think most guys who join the military do it mostly because they want to fight and be a part of something bigger than themselves (which also happens to be the best in the world if you live here in the states). That patriotic stuff is fine and I’m sure it’s part of the motivation to join, at least for some, but the real reasons are much deeper than that.
[quote]Ryu13 wrote:
hardcorps wrote:
It’s the longest basic(boot camp) and the toughest. Be a Marine!!!
Marine BCT is 12-13 weeks if I remember correctly, my army BCT was 14. How many bootcamps have you attended by the way?
Marine’s are so big-headed.[/quote]
Army is 8 weeks dude… If you count the little ranger training afterwards, then maybe you get 14 weeks. But if you want to count that shit then add another 3 weeks of MCT (mandatory) or 4 weeks of SOI (also mandatory if you are infantry) to Marine basic and you have about 4 months of basic training.
Oh yea, and guess what? if you have gone through USMC basic, then you dont’t have to go through any other branch’s basic… You get to put on thier ugly ass uniform and go… Pretty much all of the other branches copy the USMC in one way or the other, whether it be in the uniform, the motto, or even SOP. I guess you can’t blame them though. USMC is the shit… make no mistake.
As for the OP…
You might get a better standard of living in the AF, or you might get your gauranteed Special Forces in the Army, but you won’t get the pride of calling yourself a marine unless you take the big step… If you don’t want to take the big step, then go army, the MC dosen’t want your soft ass. I didn’t even talk to another recruiter, and at no point in my enlistment, did I ever! ever! regret joining the marine corps over another branch. I can’t tell you how many people from other branches that I talked to that wish they would have taken the bigger step. There is Marines, and next up, theres GOD.
I did ask about OCS, but they said I wouldn’t get as much respect from other soldiers coming out of OCS, and that I would enter the army as an E-4 and be a Sargeant if I completed SF training.[/quote]
Dude, if you have your degree, go OCS. I agree with the others that recruiters will lie to you. I was in the Air Force for 6 years, and would have loved to be an officer. They have better pay, housing, allowances, etc. Respect is earned, and if you aren’t a cocky bastard, you’ll slowly earn the respect of your subordinates. You’ll start out as a butter bar (O-1), but you’re lifestyle will be better.
As far as which branch… you can pick and choose for the benefits, etc. AF has a pretty good lifestyle, nice barracks/dorms, chow, etc, etc. The other branches are not bad either, and all have their benefits, etc.
I also think if you choose a skill… try something in the medical field. If I had to do it again, I would have gone this route. I’m now going to school to get into the medical field, so had I done some training while in the service, it would have been easier now. At least you’ll come out with something you can use. I went in thinking I was going to stay for 20 years, and after 3 years I couldn’t take the B.S. anymore. I love my country, and I’m happy with the experiences and countries I visited, etc. But some of the people I worked with were rocks… seriously. They were more of a danger to themselves as well as their co-workers than “the enemy”.
Also, when you get out, I hear people say “I was in the fuckin’ AF, Army, Navy, Marines, etc” but not once have I ever heard these people complain about serving their country.
Be patient and do what is best for YOU, as it’s YOUR life. If you can choose a career… go for it. But be HAPPY about what you choose, etc.
Good luck, and thanks for stepping up to raise your right hand and serve your country!
[quote]ssn0 wrote:
Ok well first off before you join the marines, look at whats going on in the world right now what the United States is doing. If you join the military now you are NOT defending the U.S however you are helping certain policy makers to pursue an Imperial Agenda. I know most however will totally disregard what I just said. DO your research please before you join the forces. Recruiters paint a pretty picture for you, for everyone at that!
[/quote]
Nice, thoughtful political analysis. I appreciate your use of logic, as well as the way you backed up your points with sources and research.
[quote]
Let me just say that I too wanted to join the marines, I was so gung-ho about the whole thing, for years! until a relative of mine whose with the CIA and a Middle Eastern analysis now also serving a tour in Iraq of 03’ took me aside on thanksgiving and told me that the forces was not a smart move, ecspecially now. I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear, but its another perspective, call me a crazy Liberal as the Savage nation would say. I just hope we all see the big picture soon, I really do.[/quote]
First, tell your CIA relative he did a bang up job protecting us on 9/11. Good thing they were able to stop those hijackers.
Second, if you didn’t have the sack to join the Marines at least have the sense to shut the fuck up. Don’t act like you were man enough to enlist, but you are just more enlightened than everyone else.
Well Drill Sergeants aren’t allowed to yell at their recruits anymore in Army Boot Camp…
Since when?
[/quote]
Since a few months ago when new recruits were told if they didn’t like the yelling they just had to say so and the Drill Sergeant was no longer allowed to yell at them…
Of course, once they get into the real Army, they learn what really happens, heh.
Oh, and the fact that some of them have time on the weekends to post on their blogs makes even us AF boys laugh at them.
One our great presidents warned against what he dubbed “The Military-Industrial Complex” in his speech of resignation ‘Disastrous Rise’ is what he referred to. Vietnam, Iran-Iraq, Gulf War,Operation Iraqi Freedom. Came into picture shortly after this
This is short, but its right to the chase try and keep an open-mind here.
[quote]Nuclear weapons inform the tale from start to finish, but more as the gods of new religion than as mere instruments of war. Anti-Communism gives that religion its first theology, and its first heresy hunt. But America’s bipolar mindset survives the disappeareance of Communism, as the Cold War bleeds into Global War on Terror, with “evil” making its stunning comeback in the new century, and appeals to religion becoming more overt than ever. Always, the Pentagon remains the nations sacred temple. At the same time, the Pentagon remains an engine room, generating a current that flows inexorably toward the end of an abyss. Until, finally, the Pentagon becomes the bulls-eye of a world target. (9/11)
Ironies animate this history, as emergency measures designed to be temporary become permanent, as imagined enemies become real by virtue of having been imagined; as arms control initiatives themselves fuel the upward spiral of weapons accumulation; as intellectual brilliance is assigned second place (even by intellectuals) to technical expertise; as peacenik opposition to the draft leads to a professional military of the poor. At times, militarized beligerence defines the State Department more than the Defense Department, with generals embracing the diplomacy their martinet civilian overseers reject. The narrative’s two great reversals come when, first the most idealogical cold war figure of all finds a way to cooperate with his enemy to end that war, making a friend of the enemy to boot; and then, second, when a self enemy. The story’s tragic endpoint arrives like punctuation when a ragtag group of “insurgents” fights the most lavishly armed force in history to a virtual stalemate."
lets look at all perspectives here, anything is plausible today. This is also alot to take in I apologize bro
Hitler was a brilliant figure of our time. Morbid, but what he could do to rally the people was ingenious. Coming from depression, German armies fought with a cause they thought was right, their perception on what they were told was drilled into their heads.
Today we use the words “Freedom”, “Terrorism”, “Spreading Democracy”
?Who owns the media?
Our President landed on an Aircraft Carrier he’s a hero-puppet, To the Bible Belt
In order to fully understand where I’m coming from here your going to have to research yourself I cant cover everything. But your a T-Nation reader so I know you have what it takes to learn on your own.
[quote]
Carter12wrote:
Militaries have been serving political agendas forever. I think most guys who join the military do it mostly because they want to fight and be a part of something bigger than themselves (which also happens to be the best in the world if you live here in the states). That patriotic stuff is fine and I’m sure it’s part of the motivation to join, at least for some, but the real reasons are much deeper than that. [/quote]
No pun against people who want to join or have joined the military in the past. More of trying to let people be aware or atleast take what I’m saying accountable here.
Hey, how long do you want to enlist for? What do you want to do when you get out? OCS is great if you want to make a career out of it, but if you want to make sure you’re pounding the ground in this current war, I’d go Ranger contract.
When it boils down to it, do you want to be running around in the mountains of Afghanistan right now, or do you want to just be in the best unit? Nevertheless, if you are the most basic Marine or Army grunt, you will never think that it’s not a tough job, and you’d wish it was harder.
For OCS, there’s always going to be some SOB who’s tougher than you, so chances are you won’t get your pick of jobs. Also, the more training required to get to your desired unit (SF, SEALs, PR, CCT) the more chance you have to get hurt along the way. Even the best of us get sick or dinged up sometimes and might wash out or get pulled on a particular test, even though you’d normally think it was a cakewalk. If you can’t continue along the pipeline, they normally assign you to whatever they’d like. Good luck.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
dempsey606 wrote:
They don’t mention the CS gas you have to breathe in and stuff. GOod luck.
Ahhh…good times, good times. Really clears the sinuses.
A few side straddle hops in the gas chamber really don’t stand out in my mind. Measured against the esprit de corps that lasts for a lifetime afterwards, it’s merely a snotdrop in a rainstorm.
Ever volunteer to go back in…WITHOUT a mask? That’s livin’!
[/quote]
I don’t know what the drill is in the US, but we had to remove the respirator to give name and number. You can’t do it all on one breath and that’s where the probs start. That and when you open your locker the next morning and get gassed again because you forgot to air your cami jacket.
I don’t know what the drill is in the US, but we had to remove the respirator to give name and number. You can’t do it all on one breath and that’s where the probs start. That and when you open your locker the next morning and get gassed again because you forgot to air your cami jacket.[/quote]
I know that once the snot quit coming, I could smell dinner cooking back at the barracks 6 miles away.
[quote]djoh615893 wrote:
Seems you have your sights set on the Marines. Good luck with that. In Iraq, they were indiscriminate killers. You’ll have a lot of fun, I’m sure. I know this because when I was there, they fucking shot up my HMMWV more than just a few times. In fact, the Iraqis would stop mortaring them just long enough to let my convoys through their checkpoints, then pound them some more once I was through. Good times[/quote]
[quote]I can’t tell you how many people from other branches that I talked to that wish they would have taken the bigger step. There is Marines, and next up, theres GOD.
[/quote]
In Pensacola, a retiring Navy Chief said at his big formal retirement ceremony, in front of the entire crowd of family, friends Sailors and Marines who were here to wish him well, “my only regret is that I should have joined the Marines.”
Original poster,
You’re 25 now and not getting any younger. In all honesty, much of what you’ve said sounds like the words of a 17 year old.
If you’re serious, you need to get the ball rolling. An endless search to find what’s best is never fruitful.
You have a degree. For OCS, you’ll have to put a package together with an OSO and submit it to a board. You’ll need to go to MEPS, and that hand surgery issue will probably come up. Some people take a long time to get a package together, but you can get through MEPS, contract, recommendations, and PFT in a week. Once you are accepted, you have almost a year of training.
I have a buddy who dropped out of college, went through PI and SOI, deployed to Iraq, and is now looking to put in a MECEP package. Less than a year from contract to combat.
You think sitting around a 9-5 desk job is bad. Well try standing watch for 8-12 hours, where you do nothing but stand or sit around. Talk about boring on the pysche.
The military is infamous for working long hours and doing nothing for most of those hours. Your job in the military is usually to be a ready status. A ready status means nothing more than sitting and waiting until something happens.
As far as Officers not getting respect for not being prior E, that’s bullshit. If your a good Officer, you will get respect. And many senior Officers work just as hard if not harder than the enlisted. Though many JO’s dont do a whole lot.
Going Officer is an excellent choice. The pay is better, the retirement is better. Hell, just being an officer is better. OCS is a great option.
As far as going special forces or marines. Special forces is not going to be like you think it is. Spend some time out in the desert with no clubs, no women, having to wear your uniform 90% of the time, and just waiting for something to happen and tell me how much you enjoy it. A good test of how much you like it is to move to Utah, have 80 dudes move into a space with you and be miles away from anything.
I’m not saying military service is bad. It’s just it’s nothing like you think it is going be. Personally, I believe everyone should serve at some time, but make sure you know what you are getting into to.
OCS is a great option, not mention Special Warfare Officer are some badasses. If you want to go Officer though, contact an Officer whose in charge of the commissioning program you interested in or call a ROTC office. Recruiters are not the people to go to, they will always tell you to go enlisted for their personal benefit.
Also know that, recruiters go to sales school at least I know the Navy does. Recruiters are taught how to sell someone into their service and they will do that by any means neccessary.
[quote]drugzkill wrote:
You think sitting around a 9-5 desk job is bad. Well try standing watch for 8-12 hours, where you do nothing but stand or sit around. Talk about boring on the pysche.
The military is infamous for working long hours and doing nothing for most of those hours. Your job in the military is usually to be a ready status. A ready status means nothing more than sitting and waiting until something happens.
As far as Officers not getting respect for not being prior E, that’s bullshit. If your a good Officer, you will get respect. And many senior Officers work just as hard if not harder than the enlisted. Though many JO’s dont do a whole lot.
Going Officer is an excellent choice. The pay is better, the retirement is better. Hell, just being an officer is better. OCS is a great option.
As far as going special forces or marines. Special forces is not going to be like you think it is. Spend some time out in the desert with no clubs, no women, having to wear your uniform 90% of the time, and just waiting for something to happen and tell me how much you enjoy it. A good test of how much you like it is to move to Utah, have 80 dudes move into a space with you and be miles away from anything.
I’m not saying military service is bad. It’s just it’s nothing like you think it is going be. Personally, I believe everyone should serve at some time, but make sure you know what you are getting into to.
OCS is a great option, not mention Special Warfare Officer are some badasses. If you want to go Officer though, contact an Officer whose in charge of the commissioning program you interested in or call a ROTC office. Recruiters are not the people to go to, they will always tell you to go enlisted for their personal benefit.
Also know that, recruiters go to sales school at least I know the Navy does. Recruiters are taught how to sell someone into their service and they will do that by any means neccessary.
Anyway, good luck with your choice.
MA3[/quote]
Good post. It’s important not to romanticize the whole macho military thing. Running through the jungle with an M-16 looks fun in the advertisement, but there’s a whole lot more to it. It’s really not that big of a decision. It’s only a 4 year committment. If you don’t like it, get out when your time is up.
Keep in mind that becoming an officer is more than a bigger paycheck and better housing (not always the case on housing, at least in the Marines)…it means more responsibility and more expectations. Officers are granted a “special trust and confidence” that is not afforded enlisted. Basically, officers are to hold integrity above all else. Your junior enlisted guys if caught cheating or lieing will get in trouble, but an officer caught doing the same will be discharged. Officers are held to a much higher standard.
Before you even think of going OCS you need to be in top condition. Nobody cares about your bench press or your squat. Can you do 15 dead-hang pullups? 80 crunches in 2 minutes, and run 3 miles in under 24 minutes. That would be a good starting point. To be competitive you will need to do at least 20 pullups, 100 crunches and run 3 miles in around 19 minutes.
SSN is entitled to his opinion, but he is wrong and is a leach. Serving in the military is a way to give something back to this great nation, be productive, and learn skills that willl set you apart from your civilian peers. SSN trivializes our service as a bunch of brainless followers who mindlessly kill people. He’s a poser who “almost” did something honorable, then pussed out. LOTS of people do this when they realize that it’s more than just wearing a cool uniform and getting a steady paycheck and free medical and dental. He didn’t get “enlightened”, or whatever he said, he pussed out. It’s not for everyone.
Marine officers are really in demand in the business world after you get out because of all of the team building and combat management training you get while in the service. Elite forces sound like a good time, but some of the other posts are right. Forget about a stable family, your time off is between training (they count the your travel time as down time) so you basically are operational 290-300 days a year. With your obvious intelligence and language skills, look at the embassies, or even intelligence. Something you can use after the military. I too have friend that were whizz bang in the military, and now are floundering trying to find a job outside. What sounds cool known will come back to bite you in the ass later.
SSN is entitled to his opinion, but he is wrong and is a leach. Serving in the military is a way to give something back to this great nation, be productive, and learn skills that willl set you apart from your civilian peers. SSN
trivializes our service as a bunch of brainless followers who mindlessly kill people. He’s a poser who “almost” did something honorable, then pussed out. LOTS of people do this when they realize that it’s more than just wearing a cool uniform and getting a steady paycheck and free medical and dental. He didn’t get “enlightened”, or whatever he said, he pussed out. It’s not for everyone.
[/quote]
I do not have anything against armed forces, infact I praise the veterans of WWII that was a war America had to fight. But today the war we are fighting now is for many other things. Not just “Freedom”, think BIGGER. Stopping a growing CHINA, Changing the political map of the Middle-East and it goes on.
How many wars followed WWII, or when Eisenhower resigned. Just how many? Yes a good amount in a short time.
Back in 84’ if you remember Saddam was a friend of ours, infact we gave him weapons to use against Iran when he was losing. HOW DID WE KNOW HE HAD WMDs? (which were destroyed in the gulf-war by the way) WE HAVE THE RECIEPTS.
Vietnam wasnt so pretty most know, infact I believe it to be a testing ground for new weapons.
We have new weapons today and are using them.
^in a nutshell^
Must see the bigger picture here, I never said I was “enlightened” didnt even use that word. “Pussed Out” is great, thats just great bro good one. You dont know me ive seen both perspectives here and its hard to understand where I’m coming from, infact I could not believe it myself. But I stayed calm and kept an open-mind. Decided to research more before I totally shut down this view.
SSN is entitled to his opinion, but he is wrong and is a leach. Serving in the military is a way to give something back to this great nation, be productive, and learn skills that willl set you apart from your civilian peers. SSN
trivializes our service as a bunch of brainless followers who mindlessly kill people. He’s a poser who “almost” did something honorable, then pussed out. LOTS of people do this when they realize that it’s more than just wearing a cool uniform and getting a steady paycheck and free medical and dental. He didn’t get “enlightened”, or whatever he said, he pussed out. It’s not for everyone.
I do not have anything against armed forces, infact I praise the veterans of WWII that was a war America had to fight. But today the war we are fighting now is for many other things. Not just “Freedom”, think BIGGER. Stopping a growing CHINA, Changing the political map of the Middle-East and it goes on.
How many wars followed WWII, or when Eisenhower resigned. Just how many? Yes a good amount in a short time.
Back in 84’ if you remember Saddam was a friend of ours, infact we gave him weapons to use against Iran when he was losing. HOW DID WE KNOW HE HAD WMDs? (which were destroyed in the gulf-war by the way) WE HAVE THE RECIEPTS.
Vietnam wasnt so pretty most know, infact I believe it to be a testing ground for new weapons.
We have new weapons today and are using them.
^in a nutshell^
He didn’t get “enlightened”, or whatever he said, he pussed out. It’s not for everyone.
Must see the bigger picture here, I never said I was “enlightened” didnt even use that word. “Pussed Out” is great, thats just great bro good one. You dont know me ive seen both perspectives here and its hard to understand where I’m coming from, infact I could not believe it myself. But I stayed calm and kept an open-mind. Decided to research more before I totally shut down this view.
[/quote]
WTF are you trying to say? You make no sense. I can’t follow your thought pattern. We supported Saddam back in the 80’s? Whoo-hooo! So what?
“We have new weapons now and are using them” Oh…my…God! No way. What’s your point?
You were all gung-ho for many years about serving your country in the Marines, then a “CIA friend” showed you the big picture. What are you, 18, 19 years old.
You have the “big picture” because you talked to a CIA guy. The rest of us are stupid. Roger that. Thanks for your valuable input. I think I’ll resign tomorrow because your CIA friend has the “real” gouge (that means information in military speak). Just admit you didn’t think the military was a good fit for you so you chose a different path. I can respect that. Don’t try to impress me with the “Oh, I really wanted to but…”.
[quote]DrVonNostrand wrote:
Original poster,
You’re 25 now and not getting any younger. In all honesty, much of what you’ve said sounds like the words of a 17 year old.
If you’re serious, you need to get the ball rolling. An endless search to find what’s best is never fruitful.
You have a degree. For OCS, you’ll have to put a package together with an OSO and submit it to a board. You’ll need to go to MEPS, and that hand surgery issue will probably come up. Some people take a long time to get a package together, but you can get through MEPS, contract, recommendations, and PFT in a week. Once you are accepted, you have almost a year of training.
I have a buddy who dropped out of college, went through PI and SOI, deployed to Iraq, and is now looking to put in a MECEP package. Less than a year from contract to combat.[/quote]
I think I already did get the ball rolling. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable trying to gather as much information as possible. If I were buying a car or a house, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to spend a month or two trying to explore all my options. Well this is also a 3-5 year commitment, and more important, so I think it’s a good idea to learn as much as possible before I make a decision. Also, like I said, my medical status affords me that luxury, and even demands it of me. Why not take advantage of my situation to make the most informed decision possible?
The more I think about it, the more OCS seems the way to go. Someone mentioned talking directly to an officer instead of a recruiter, does anyone know how I might go about contacting one though?
Whoo-hooo! So what?