[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
As I recall, he was using a suicide grip. He brought it upon himself. [/quote]
Or, his coach could have actually “coached” him and not let him use that grip while he was training in a school facility. It’s just like if I’m training one of my sons and I see him doing that. I stop him, correct him and tell him why it’s a bad idea. I do not let him do it under my supervision. [/quote]
I also assumed that the coach would have taught him about the potential negative consequences of that grip but given them their own choice of style.
There is no applicable use of a suicide grip in football, I cannot think of a single position of the field or situation that comes up where is is usable.
The problem is lack of recognizing risk to reward. When you feel the need to stand on a Bosu Ball squatting with your eyes closed while having tennis balls thrown at you, you should reconsider something. Rather than work on things like maximal strength, starting strength, and explosive strength, you have some Paul Chek-like idiot who suggests stupid shit like this.
The guy on the right bending over is the idiot strength coach in question. This guy should have been fired long ago, since before I left SC. He was always screwy and sort of imbalanced.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no applicable use of a suicide grip in football, I cannot think of a single position of the field or situation that comes up where is is usable.
The problem is lack of recognizing risk to reward. When you feel the need to stand on a Bosu Ball squatting with your eyes closed while having tennis balls thrown at you, you should reconsider something. Rather than work on things like maximal strength, starting strength, and explosive strength, you have some Paul Chek-like idiot who suggests stupid shit like this. [/quote]
Max? Didn’t you play for USC? Did they have you using the suicide grip?
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Here is an excerpt from the Sports Illustrated article and the link
[b]"Johnson was bench-pressing 275 pounds in the USC weight room when the bar dropped or fell onto his neck in September 2009. His throat and larynx were crushed and he required reconstructive surgery.
Assistant strength and conditioning coach Jamie Yanchar, who was responsible for spotting Johnson during his lifting, was also named in the complaint.
The lawsuit claims Yanchar was “distracted and not paying attention to Mr. Johnson at the time that the bar was being lifted from the weight rack,” as the plaintiff was lifting 275 pounds for the first time.
As Yanchar placed the weight bar into the player’s hands, he was inattentive and negligent and hit the bar with his body before Johnson had a good grip on it, the lawsuit said.
“The bar was knocked off balance and slipped,” the lawsuit claims, landing on Johnson’s neck."[/b]
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/01/24/johnson-usc-lawsuit.ap/index.html
[/quote]
I am not sure where the suicide grip discussion started…But regardless of grip the coach should have known better to do a causal lift off, especially with a new max.
Does it seem odd he was lifting 275 for the first time his junior year?
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no applicable use of a suicide grip in football, I cannot think of a single position of the field or situation that comes up where is is usable.
The problem is lack of recognizing risk to reward. When you feel the need to stand on a Bosu Ball squatting with your eyes closed while having tennis balls thrown at you, you should reconsider something. Rather than work on things like maximal strength, starting strength, and explosive strength, you have some Paul Chek-like idiot who suggests stupid shit like this. [/quote]
Max? Didn’t you play for USC? Did they have you using the suicide grip?[/quote]
Yes I played for SC in the 90’s, and no I have used a suicide grip. Even if they asked me to, I would not have used it. I saw some guys using it, thinking of the FAIL that was to eventually come.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If it is less than 300lbs, I would be too embarrassed to sue.[/quote]
It used to be embarrassing to sue ANYONE when you injure yourself, unfortunately anyone but the person who was injured is responsible. Now you can trip on a gardenhose on a sidewalk and sue for damages.
The false grip, suicide grip, whateverthefuckyouwannacallit grip isn’t the issue.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to use the grip safely.
“As Yanchar placed the weight bar into the player’s hands, he was inattentive and negligent and hit the bar with his body before Johnson had a good grip on it, the lawsuit said.”
That, however, will fuck up anyone’s lift.
They don’t call it “suicide grip” for nothing.
I don’t see a valid case.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
The false grip, suicide grip, whateverthefuckyouwannacallit grip isn’t the issue.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to use the grip safely.
“As Yanchar placed the weight bar into the player’s hands, he was inattentive and negligent and hit the bar with his body before Johnson had a good grip on it, the lawsuit said.”
That, however, will fuck up anyone’s lift.
[/quote]
That makes for a weird mental image. I just can’t see how a spotter could bump it off their body, unless he either does handoffs like a power clean or was so far over the bench that teabag was imminent.
I thought there was a video of this on youtube? Or am I thinking of some other case of false grip failing?
Edit:
I’m thinking of this video:
Those damn videos (of lifting accidents) always give me a feeling of great anxiety.
Thanks Blaze!
There is no need for a football player, a running back of all people, to be using a suicide grip for anything. He holds the ball with both hands (hopefully) and runs with his feet, where is the demand for him to use it?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Those damn videos (of lifting accidents) always give me a feeling of great anxiety.
Thanks Blaze![/quote]
Haha my bad. I have to say though, as long as you’re not using a false grip you probably have nothing to worry about as far as this accident at least.
[quote]biglifter wrote:
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
The false grip, suicide grip, whateverthefuckyouwannacallit grip isn’t the issue.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to use the grip safely.
“As Yanchar placed the weight bar into the player’s hands, he was inattentive and negligent and hit the bar with his body before Johnson had a good grip on it, the lawsuit said.”
That, however, will fuck up anyone’s lift.
[/quote]
That makes for a weird mental image. I just can’t see how a spotter could bump it off their body, unless he either does handoffs like a power clean or was so far over the bench that teabag was imminent.[/quote]
I could see it if the bar was just off the rack and the spotter turned and hit it with his hip/butt/belly. If the bar moved forward once hit it suggests that the bar would have been still over the guy’s head.
If this happened before he had “a good grip” then isn’t the debate over grip irrelevant?
Then again, it sounds as if the whole thing was not set up well, sounds like the player was an inexperienced lifter and the coach was not coaching. How often do y’all unrack a weight before you have a set grip? The last time I remember ever having to check my grip was when my spotter pulled the bar up too high during the unrack and shifted the bar in my hands. I reracked the weight and corrected the spotter (and stopped using them, using the power cage instead).
FWIW, and I haven’t bothered reading the articles, but frequently insurance companies bring suit in the name of the insured. So instead of a jury seeing Big Bad Insurer v. Jones, they see Smith v. Jones.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no applicable use of a suicide grip in football, I cannot think of a single position of the field or situation that comes up where is is usable.
The problem is lack of recognizing risk to reward. When you feel the need to stand on a Bosu Ball squatting with your eyes closed while having tennis balls thrown at you, you should reconsider something. Rather than work on things like maximal strength, starting strength, and explosive strength, you have some Paul Chek-like idiot who suggests stupid shit like this. [/quote]
Max? Didn’t you play for USC? Did they have you using the suicide grip?[/quote]
Yes I played for SC in the 90’s, and no I have used a suicide grip. Even if they asked me to, I would not have used it. I saw some guys using it, thinking of the FAIL that was to eventually come. [/quote]
What position did you play?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Yes, if he knocked it out his hands, I hope he wins…but again, I hope some of you are thinking about what that means to the rest of us when in the gym.
If he wins, I won’t be spotting anyone else…ever.[/quote]
I won’t sue you if you spot me. Pinkie promise, mf.
[quote]Dread wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow…I guess he needs the money because there is no way in hell I see this working out in his favor.
If he wins, then any time you even spot someone casually at the gym, if they drop the weight on themselves, you can get sued.
No one did that to him. No one forced him to use a weight he couldn’t actually lift, did they?[/quote]
I didn’t read the article, but it’s a bit more complicated than that legally (civil) speaking.
First, I’d say yes, even as a “casual spotter” in the gym, if you were not paying attention or otherwise negligent, I think you could be successfully sued. This does not mean you have some absolute duty to prevent an accident, because there are inherent dangers that come with lifting weights, but if you agreed to spot someone and you weren’t paying attention, I think you could be found liable.
Remember, you have no “legal duty” to provide someone with a “spot”. However, once you agree and assume that responsibility, you cannot do so without taking reasonable care to perform that duty to the best of your ability. Put simply, this means that you cannot be looking at the hottie in the spandex while someone is under the bar. However, as I said, you’re under no absolute duty to prevent any accidents - just to use reasonable care.
Moving onto the case in point, the scenario is a bit different than that of the casual gym spotter. The “spotter” in this case was a coach and there would be a heightened duty to enforce safe lifting practices and to be diligent with “spotting”. I don’t know all the facts, but I can guarantee you the case goes forward and there might be a recovery by the injured player. [/quote]
Casually spotting someone in the gym in no way places the liability on the spotter. In no contract I’ve ever seen does it say “if you agree to spot a bro, you assume all responsibility if the weight falls on his neck”. So agreeing to spot someone should have absolutely no liability for the spotter. I doubt they’d even get a case through suing the gym.
On the other hand it’s an entirely different story if a staff member (read: S&C coach) is spotting and an accident happens. However in this case the suit should not be that the bar was allowed to fall, but that the coach allowed him to lift a weight he was guaranteed to fail on or to use a false grip.
[/quote]
Yeah. I only managed litigation for 20 years, attended hundreds of trials, successfully settled and evaluated 10’s of 1000’s of claims but I guess you know better. What did you say you did for a living again?