Archie, are you near the border?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
“Can you even read?”
Physician, heal thyself:
What exactly is wrong with my statement? The text that Rockscar quoted places blame for “Legal’s” expenses on “Illegal”
And on a side-note Bill, have you ever gotten it on with a hot latina?
Max,
I live in a city full of beaners, and I’m reaping the benefits.
I’ve worked alongside illegal immigrants for years in the landscaping industry. Even in good economic times, of the literally hundreds of illegals I’ve worked with, none of them ever got paid more than 12-13$ per hour. Most construction workers, an industry that my dad has worked in as a sub-contractor for thirty years, get paid 20-35$ per hour, with benefits. I’m sure there are illegals out there making 15$ an hour cash, but they are far and few between and represent the absolute top of the pay scale, whereas a construction worker making 25$ per hour with no benefits provided by his employer at all represents the bottom of the scale. Based on my own experiences, the examples of Jose Illegal and Joe Legal are not even close to being an equitable comparison.
And while there are illegals who have “anchor babies”, in my own experiences this is not indicative of a significant percentage of illegals working here. Virtually every illegal I’ve met or worked with has zero children here in America and has risked life and limb to leave them behind and work here in order to feed and clothe them. I worked in landscaping and construction for about ten years in the Bay Area where there is an extremely large illegal immigrant population.
I will say this though. Illegal immigration, according to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), costs California alone 10.5 billion every year. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and it is far from fair for Californians or Americans in general to foot the bill for these costs. But a large reason for the sheer volume of illegal immigrant workers here in California (aside from the proximity to the border) is because there simply are not enough citizens willing to perform the labor that the illegals perform at the wages they do, and there are not enough employers willing to pay the wages that citizens will work for.
The problem doesn’t reside solely with illegals themselves. And the example of Jose Illegal is a far cry from an accurate portrayal of a typical illegal immigrant. In California, especially in LA and the Bay Area, the wages for everybody tend to be higher than the rest of the country, citizen or not, but I can’t think of a single illegal immigrant I’ve met in ten years of working with them or hiring them that ever got paid $15 an hour. It’s much more common for them to make $10 an hour cash with a free burrito at lunch. FAIR estimates that the average wage of an illegal immigrant in America is just under 8$ an hour. Again, the example of Jose Illegal is absolutely nowhere near the reality of the situation.
DB, one visit to an ER can easily offset any money paid in taxes by an illegal, within a year period. If you walk into an ER, you are looking at a grand easy. Then think about the poor bastard who’s identity is stolen so the illegal can work, you want to talk about a nightmare of clearing that up. That 10.5 billion dollar number you mentioned, is half our state deficit. Half, you would think someone would want to address something that contributes half. Because of our tax situation, the wealthy and job creators have left the state, only to be replaced with poor low-skilled illegals. Same population, less revenue.
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
“Can you even read?”
Physician, heal thyself:
What exactly is wrong with my statement? The text that Rockscar quoted places blame for “Legal’s” expenses on “Illegal”[/quote]
Well, you see? It’s rather ironic for you to be replying “Can you even read?” to someone when your reading comprehension in this instance (but I assume not generally) is not even budging the needle.
NOWHERE IN THERE does it say or suggest that Joe’s costs for the listed expenses would be lower if not for the illegal alien.
Actually no but I have serious plans.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
“Can you even read?”
Physician, heal thyself:
What exactly is wrong with my statement? The text that Rockscar quoted places blame for “Legal’s” expenses on “Illegal”[/quote]
Well, you see? It’s rather ironic for you to be replying “Can you even read?” to someone when your reading comprehension in this instance (but I assume not generally) is not even budging the needle.
NOWHERE IN THERE does it say or suggest that Joe’s costs for the listed expenses would be lower if not for the illegal alien.
Actually no but I have serious plans.[/quote]
And I, in no way, accused anyone of being a Nazi, I was contrasting the rhetoric employed by the OP’s text with historical fact (the rise of Nazi Germany). Dumbass poster from Tennessee took it the wrong way, and composed a half-baked response, and so I wondered about his reading comprehension.
The text does in fact blame the ILLEGAL, but let’s not argue. Let’s get you a latina. 
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
DB, one visit to an ER can easily offset any money paid in taxes by an illegal, within a year period. If you walk into an ER, you are looking at a grand easy. Then think about the poor bastard who’s identity is stolen so the illegal can work, you want to talk about a nightmare of clearing that up. That 10.5 billion dollar number you mentioned, is half our state deficit. Half, you would think someone would want to address something that contributes half. Because of our tax situation, the wealthy and job creators have left the state, only to be replaced with poor low-skilled illegals. Same population, less revenue. [/quote]
As far as the last four sentences of your post, you’re preaching to the choir. I agree with you in that regard. However, I’ve gone to the ER before during a period when I had no health insurance. I had a concussion but didn’t a CAT scan. Cost me 160$ for the whole trip, including x-rays. The point I’m trying to make here is that while illegal immigration is arguably costing the state a ton of money, the Jose Illegal scenario does not represent reality in any way. I suppose by saying this I’m getting away from the point to a certain degree. But I think a lot of the blame for the whole situation lies squarely on the shoulders of those who hire illegals, not the illegals themselves. If the roles were reversed, I have a hard time believing no one here currently decrying the existence of such a large illegal population would not turn around and do exactly what they are doing as well.
Agreed on the latter point!
Can you point out one single sentence that says that a listed expense of Joe’s is higher because of the illegal or that anything about his situation that is specified – the various costs – is due to the illegal?
I’m sure not, because it’s not there. (EDIT: Well, taxes are listed, so that is one point, but it was extremely brief whereas you are claiming that Joe’s situation in general is blamed on the illegal.) You just read it into there for whatever reason.
It’s supported at the end of EVERY sentence, Bill.
Jose Illegal “still has $31,200.00”, while Joe’s funds are dwindling. The author of this doesn’t exactly cleverly disguise that Joe is in a worse position than Jose is in, and this is where my reaction originated.
Illegals do not live like fictional “Jose”, with never-ending welfare.
“Supported at the end of every sentence” = “isn’t in there but is being read into it by you.”
No one is claiming that Joe shouldn’t be buying his own food, etc.
No one is blaming the illegal for Joe having to buy his own food.
I don’t know where you are coming from – is it an entitlement mentality where it is natural to you to assume that people would be thinking Joe shouldn’t have to pay for his food and therefore there must be someone to blame for Joe’s having to do so?
I assure that Rockscar was not saying that and I am quite certain the original author is not saying that.
Quite the opposite.
It’s not that Joe is being made to pay more for these expenses due to the illegal alien. The point is that the “poor illegal alien,” if he has a job making an amount of money such as listed, is overall making out like a bandit due to the government giving him free rides that American citizens earning the same money don’t get.
I understand that you see no problem with that. Others do, however.
However, let’s be more specific.
Do you think it’s right that if I drive in California, I must have insurance, a valid driver’s license, and so forth or the police will cite me or even take me to jail because I am an American citizen and doing these things, but if an illegal alien does the same things they just smile and say have a nice day and are not allowed to do a thing?
Can you really explain to us how you just don’t see a problem here, or is it that you think the illegal alien is being blamed for the fact that I have to buy auto insurance?
Given your above posts, it well could be that that is what you have read into what I have written.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Do you think it’s right that if I drive in California, I must have insurance, a valid driver’s license, and so forth or the police will cite me or even take me to jail because I am an American citizen and doing these things, but if an illegal alien does the same things they just smile and say have a nice day and are not allowed to do a thing?
Can you really explain to us how you just don’t see a problem here, or is it that you think the illegal alien is being blamed for the fact that I have to buy auto insurance?
Given your above posts, it well could be that that is what you have read into what I have written.[/quote]
The above mentioned “insurance” example, would be an enormous problem, but does that really happen? Does the LAPD “smile” at illegal aliens and tell them to “have a nice day?” Bullshit! They get taken to the El Centro INS facility, and put in immigration detention. And they should, I hate un-insured drivers, but the police, even in small, rural areas, can do whatever the scope of the law requires them to, citizen or not.
Bill, I forget, do you live in CA?
Yes, that really does happen.
I don’t live in California but it seems that even though you do, you have no idea whatsoever. The idea that an illegal alien without a driver’s license is going to be taken by the LAPD to INS is ludicrously incorrect.
Do you live in a small rural area and just don’t know what goes in LA and SF, and instead assume the above?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yes, that really does happen.
I don’t live in California but it seems that even though you do, you have no idea whatsoever. The idea that an illegal alien without a driver’s license is going to be taken by the LAPD to INS is ludicrously incorrect.
Do you live in a small rural area and just don’t know what goes in LA and SF, and instead assume the above?[/quote]
Hey, maybe I AM clueless. First, I’ll give examples of actual detention facilities in the L.A. area, then, you provide a source of any CA police dept. being powerless.
1.Mira Loma Detention Facility
MLD houses illegal immigrants, arrested for misdemeanors/crimes including traffic violations.
Now why don’t you consider the number of illegal aliens driving without a driver’s license versus the number held in detention.
Rather obviously, the number of illegal aliens driving without driver’s licenses – often even without a plate on the car, so they are quite obvious to law enforcement – greatly exceeds the number held in detention.
Or do you still think it is the opposite: that on being found to be operating a vehicle without a DL, they ordinarily are arrested and go to detention?
I’m sorry but just living in CA doesn’t mean you must know what you’re talking about.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Now why don’t you consider the number of illegal aliens driving without a driver’s license versus the number held in detention.
Rather obviously, the number of illegal aliens driving without driver’s licenses – often even without a plate on the car, so they are quite obvious to law enforcement – greatly exceeds the number held in detention.
Or do you still think it is the opposite: that on being found to be operating a vehicle without a DL, they ordinarily are arrested and go to detention?
I’m sorry but just living in CA doesn’t mean you must know what you’re talking about.[/quote]
Page 18 of the CA driver’s handbook (signed by our idol, Arnold) details that international licenses are valid, as long as the driver has not been a resident of CA for more than 6 months. This was never about licenses. Illegal’s are hardly counted as residents, therefore they do not commit a CRIME when driving with a mexican license. Why don’t you provide a link, like I asked you?
Have I claimed that I’m an authority on this issue, merely because I live here? In that same sense, what makes you think you know this issue?
I agree, there are too many drivers on the CA roads/highways that shouldn’t be driving. Mostly snowbirds from Alaska.
Well, unlike yourself I have talked with people that live in these cities on these matters (or if you have, it would seem that you shut your ears and did not listen) and over the years I have read many articles detailing these things. There is no question about all this. It is common knowledge.
What I said was completely correct: An American citizen will suffer legal penalty if doing things such as driving without a driver’s license, driving without insurance, driving without plates on the car, etc but in CA (not necessarily everywhere but including very major cities) an illegal alien CAN do those things with a complete pass from law enforcement. And very many of them do it routinely.
I don’t have to provide you with links. If you are wrong, as you are, that’s your own problem and I don’t need to do your research for you. It’s not as if I cut out and save articles on things such as this just so that I can provide references to those who don’t know what they’re talking about.
Others here on this board who know more about the CA situation than you do can and almost undoubtedly will post tomorrow and let you know further how wrong you are.
Illegal aliens DO get a pass in many parts of CA for things that American citizens do not.
Try re-reading the original post: the no-pay practices mentioned are things that in fact occur, but which American citizens don’t as readily, if at all, get away with. It’s not that American citizens should be able to get away with being deadbeats and spongers and experience no consequences from it: it’s that illegal aliens should not, but do, and largely because of defenders such as yourself who object to anyone saying a word about it.
I object to the lies and fabrications that this thread has provided, but I do not want to defend any illegal activity, whether it’s perpetrated by citizens or aliens.
“I don’t have to provide you with links.” ---- I love that! Keep googling, Bill, and then maybe you’ll impress me. You mentioned that you’ve read many articles about this, yet you refuse to share them. We both know that you can’t back up what you’ve said in this thread.
Well, it’s past 10 PM on a Friday night, I gotta go, enjoy your night Bill!
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I’ve worked alongside illegal immigrants for years in the landscaping industry. Even in good economic times, of the literally hundreds of illegals I’ve worked with, none of them ever got paid more than 12-13$ per hour. Most construction workers, an industry that my dad has worked in as a sub-contractor for thirty years, get paid 20-35$ per hour, with benefits. I’m sure there are illegals out there making 15$ an hour cash, but they are far and few between and represent the absolute top of the pay scale, whereas a construction worker making 25$ per hour with no benefits provided by his employer at all represents the bottom of the scale. Based on my own experiences, the examples of Jose Illegal and Joe Legal are not even close to being an equitable comparison.
And while there are illegals who have “anchor babies”, in my own experiences this is not indicative of a significant percentage of illegals working here. Virtually every illegal I’ve met or worked with has zero children here in America and has risked life and limb to leave them behind and work here in order to feed and clothe them. I worked in landscaping and construction for about ten years in the Bay Area where there is an extremely large illegal immigrant population.[/quote]
- There are a lot of anchor babies. 70% of babies delivered in Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, are anchor babies. Parkland’s the 2nd busiest maternity ward in the nation. I’ll link snopes, because I can’t find the news article.
So when you say this is ‘not indicative of the population’, I’ll agree with you only up to a certain point.
- Americans can and will take construction jobs at $8-$15/hr. Compare that with pay of other unskilled labor (McJobs, Starbucks, warehousing). There’s nothing that makes the construction industry unique. More, with an unemployment rate of around 10% (close to 20% in CA, IIRC), I’d assume theres even more who’d take the work if they could find it.
Also, your statement ‘whereas a construction worker making 25$ per hour …represents the bottom of the scale’, is totally wrong, at least in Texas., maybe it’s valid in Cali. It depends on what aspect you work on/in, but legal residents of the US don’t see their hourly pay jump just by having a valid SS card.