Jihad In the Hadith

[quote]lixy wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Yes, they are quite different:

  1. Nature of the prophet

Indeed. Mohamed was merely a man (albeit a remarkable one).
Jesus’ birth in itself was a miracle and his life, according to the Islamic tradition, was void of all sins.

  1. Theology of interpretation - strict textualism versus allegory

Huh? Whose interpretation are you talking about?

There’s no papal entity in Islam, you know.

  1. Development and direction as paired with a particular culture

True. But how does that refute my statement that “the religions are essentially the same”?

  1. Old and New Testament

If we’re gonna throw random words, here: Mundane lycopene isotropic banana.

Make your point or stop wasting bandwidth.[/quote]

You’re lying. Mohammed wasn’t “merely a man”. According to Islam, he’s Mohammed al-insan al-kamil - “The Perfect Man” - meaning he is the standard of perfect behavior for all Muslims.

There is indeed no papal entity in Islam, but there doesn’t need to be. The gates of ijtihad are closed. Why don’t you tell us about them?

When the Christian bible was being assembled there was a school of thought that said the old tstament did not belong in it. Being as it was the old religion of the Jews. The only purpose the old testament serves is to show the messed up mentality that Jesus had to contend with.

So muslims do have a point saying that the bible is altered. The Gnostic bible contained over seventy gospels, the most important of which is the gospel of Mary Magdalene who was Jesus foremost disciple. The reason why Mary Magdalene was Jesus foremost disciple is because she was the one who truly understood the more esoteric aspects of Jesus’ teaching which were all about peace.

Those passages the Beowolf quoted show that Mohammad took his ideas not only form Jesus and the new testament but also from the old testament. That is why I feel that islam represents a giant step backwards away from what Jesus was teaching.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Chushin wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others…

Interesting irony here.

excellent[/quote]

Nah, there’s nothing excellent about that comment. It’s just trite…

Now look, I haven’t been one here long so I can’t pretend to know what everyone is like - but Chushin, what’s up with you mate?! Recently your posts have started sounding really 'cyncical, quite hardened actually…I didn’t detect that when I first joined.

It’s trite because it’s plays along with this same tired prejudice about Islam and/or its founder being incompatible or antithetical to peace.

So all of a sudden, it’s ‘ironic’ that muslims say these four words - peace be upon him - after uttering the name of their prophet. wow.

Hey look, I’ll give you one free. You guys want the irony of ironies?? Well just remember what muslims say to each other every day in greeting…As Salamu Alaykum - peace be upon you!!!

'kinell…

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
“They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.”

"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” Numbers 31:7-18 NLT

"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. But these instructions apply only to distant towns, not to the towns of nations nearby. “As for the towns of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as a special possession, destroy every living thing in them. You must completely destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you. This will keep the people of the land from teaching you their detestable customs in the worship of their gods, which would cause you to sin deeply against the LORD your God.” Deuteronomy 20:10-18 NLT

“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” Deuteronomy 22:28-29

“While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was discovered gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who caught him at it brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. But they kept him in custody, for there was no clear decision as to what should be done with him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “This man shall be put to death; let the whole community stone him outside the camp.” So the whole community led him outside the camp and stoned him to death as the Lord had commanded Moses.” Numbers 15:32-36 NAB

“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.” Exodus 21:20-21 NAB

“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

“Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.” (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

"Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! "But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD Almighty, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not shrivel before they are ripe,” says the LORD Almighty. (Malachi 3:8-11 NLT)
(Doesn’t it seem really stupid that an all-powerful God claims he can bring food and grapes to the masses but he can’t even feed himself?)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)

After this, David subdued and humbled the Philistines by conquering Gath, their largest city. David also conquered the land of Moab. He made the people lie down on the ground in a row, and he measured them off in groups with a length of rope. He measured off two groups to be executed for every one group to be spared. The Moabites who were spared became David’s servants and brought him tribute money. (2 Samuel 8:1-2 NLT)

If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. I will punish you seven times over for your sins. You will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters. I will destroy your pagan shrines and cut down your incense altars. I will leave your corpses piled up beside your lifeless idols, and I will despise you. I will make your cities desolate and destroy your places of worship, and I will take no pleasure in your offerings of incense. Yes, I myself will devastate your land. Your enemies who come to occupy it will be utterly shocked at the destruction they see. I will scatter you among the nations and attack you with my own weapons. Your land will become desolate, and your cities will lie in ruins. Then at last the land will make up for its missed Sabbath years as it lies desolate during your years of exile in the land of your enemies. Then the land will finally rest and enjoy its Sabbaths. As the land lies in ruins, it will take the rest you never allowed it to take every seventh year while you lived in it. (Leviticus 26:27-35 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior. (1 Peter 3:1-2 NAB)

You (God) fixed the earth on its foundation, never to be moved. (Psalm 104:5 NAB)

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Whoever spoils his son will bind up his wounds, and will suffer heartache at every cry. An unbroken horse turns out stubborn, and an unchecked son turns out headstrong. Pamper a child, and he will terrorize you; play with him, and he will grieve you. Do not laugh with him, or you will have sorrow with him, and in the end you will gnash your teeth. Give him no freedom in his youth, and do not ignore his errors. Bow down his neck in his youth, and beat his sides while he is young, or else he will become stubborn and disobey you, and you will have sorrow of soul from him. Discipline your son and make his yoke heavy, so that you may not be offended by his shamelessness. (Sirach 30:7-13 NRS)

Then Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people that they would be the LORD’s people. He also made a covenant between the king and the people. And all the people of the land went over to the temple of Baal and tore it down. They demolished the altars and smashed the idols to pieces, and they killed Mattan the priest of Baal in front of the altars. Jehoiada the priest stationed guards at the Temple of the LORD. Then the commanders, the Carite mercenaries, the guards, and all the people of the land escorted the king from the Temple of the LORD. They went through the gate of the guards and into the palace, and the king took his seat on the royal throne. (2 Kings 11:17-19 NLT)

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse. (1 Peter 2:18 NAB)

Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. (Colossians 3:18 NAB)

So this is what the LORD Almighty says about them: “I will punish them! Their young men will die in battle, and their little boys and girls will starve. Not one of these plotters from Anathoth will survive, for I will bring disaster upon them when their time of punishment comes.” (Jeremiah 11:22-23 NLT)

Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with a rod he will not die. Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world. (Proverbs 23:13-14 NAB)

So it is with a woman who leaves her husband and presents him with an heir by another man. For first of all, she has disobeyed the law of the Most High; second, she has committed an offense against her husband; and third, through her fornication she has committed adultery and brought forth children by another man. She herself will be brought before the assembly, and her punishment will extend to her children. Her children will not take root, and her branches will not bear fruit. (Sirach 23:22-25 NRSV)

Blessings are for the head of the just, but a rod for the back of the fool. (Proverbs 10:6 NAB)

If your enemy be hungry, give him food to eat, if he be thirsty, give him to drink; For live coals you will heap on his head, and the Lord will vindicate you. (Proverbs 25:21-22 NAB)

Now wait… someone will say we’re not talking about Christianity, we’re talking about Islam.

If Islam is inherently evil, so is Christianity. Get over it.
[/quote]

That’s all old testament and hence, Judaism.

[quote]red bull wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Chushin wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others…

Interesting irony here.

excellent

Nah, there’s nothing excellent about that comment. It’s just trite…

Now look, I haven’t been one here long so I can’t pretend to know what everyone is like - but Chushin, what’s up with you mate?! Recently your posts have started sounding really 'cyncical, quite hardened actually…I didn’t detect that when I first joined.

It’s trite because it’s plays along with this same tired prejudice about Islam and/or its founder being incompatible or antithetical to peace.

So all of a sudden, it’s ‘ironic’ that muslims say these four words - peace be upon him - after uttering the name of their prophet. wow.

Hey look, I’ll give you one free. You guys want the irony of ironies?? Well just remember what muslims say to each other every day in greeting…As Salamu Alaykum - peace be upon you!!!

'kinell…

[/quote]

You seem pretty blinded to the subject. I think you confuse the Muslims around you with the true nature of the religion. Most people’s religions are a matter of birth and most people don’t really buy into it.

Most Christians don’t live like Christ and most Muslims don’t live like Muhammed.

The few people that do live like Christ are generally beneficial to society. The few that live like Muhammed, warring on the infidel are horrible.

I don’t think you understand irony. The irony was that the narrator of that hadith was saying “peace be upon him” when Mohammed (al-insan al-kamil) was being anything but peaceful. It’s like me saying “General Patton (peace be upon him) then took his forces at the Battle of the Bulge and slew the German men, but spared the women and children, giving them as booty to his men.” Get it?

Scripture mining is a dangerous thing. You could get Gone with the Wind to be heinous and violent if you mine passages out of it.

I don’t think Islam inherently evil. I believe it’s purveyors have scripture-mined it, and perverted to say what they want it to say so they can do the things they want to do. It’s a human agenda, not a spiritual agenda. If God is who he says he is, then you don’t actually have to conquer the world for him, he already owns it.

That’s not to say that the current state of Islam is not in peril. It is in deep shit. It has been allowed to be so perverted it almost has no sense of itself anymore. It’s practitioners are so concerned with the letter of the law that they don’t even give a damn about the spirit of the law.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
One was a warrior bent on conquest, the other was a pacifist…
[/quote]

Thunderbolt,

Personally, I would say that calling Muhammad ‘a warrior’ - using this word as the essential definition of the man - is inaccurate.

If Christians, or anybody for that matter, feel that the word ‘pacifist’ fully defines and articulates the character of Christ, fine.

But again, the words ‘warrior’ and conquest while certainly describing some aspects of Muhammad, do not fully define him.

But this is old old stuff…

If anyone is perverting islam it is those who are trying to put it into a context where it is just like Christianity and Mohammad was just as good of a man as Jesus. Even though Jesus never killed anyone, never tortured anyone and never kept slaves.

The peaceful parts of the Koran come from the early days when mohamad had to play nice, because he didn’t have the power. Once mohamad got power the Jihad started and it is still going.

[quote]red bull wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
One was a warrior bent on conquest, the other was a pacifist…

Thunderbolt,

Personally, I would say that calling Muhammad ‘a warrior’ - using this word as the essential definition of the man - is inaccurate.

If Christians, or anybody for that matter, feel that the word ‘pacifist’ fully defines and articulates the character of Christ, fine.

But again, the words ‘warrior’ and conquest while certainly describing some aspects of Muhammad, do not fully define him.

But this is old old stuff…

[/quote]

Warrior does not fully define Patton either. No man is one thing only yet the distinction between Jesus and Muhammed is very important.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I don’t think you understand irony. The irony was that the narrator of that hadith was saying “peace be upon him” when Mohammed (al-insan al-kamil) was being anything but peaceful. It’s like me saying “General Patton (peace be upon him) then took his forces at the Battle of the Bulge and slew the German men, but spared the women and children, giving them as booty to his men.” Get it?[/quote]

Ok, fair enough - I see the point Chushin was making.
And I suppose he chose the best example possible. Given the context, yes it was one of the more ironic pronouncements on record!

But like I say, it’s still playing into this same tired sentiment - the whole Islam/Muhammad-more-warlike-than-not stinker…

The comment just struck me as being too easy to make - that’s why I called it trite.

But anyway Chushin, no hard feelings mate. We agree, we disagree. Apologies if I jumped on your post…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
red bull wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
One was a warrior bent on conquest, the other was a pacifist…

Thunderbolt,

Personally, I would say that calling Muhammad ‘a warrior’ - using this word as the essential definition of the man - is inaccurate.

If Christians, or anybody for that matter, feel that the word ‘pacifist’ fully defines and articulates the character of Christ, fine.

But again, the words ‘warrior’ and conquest while certainly describing some aspects of Muhammad, do not fully define him.

But this is old old stuff…

Warrior does not fully define Patton either. No man is one thing only yet the distinction between Jesus and Muhammed is very important.[/quote]

Zap, I couldn’t agree more in the distinction between Muhammad and Jesus. I have never thought of them - or their historical characters - as being particularly similar.

Muslims don’t think this either. So who does? Have I missed something…?

And you’re right, the word ‘warrior’ does not define Patton in his entirety. Nobody would accept that. The difference is that with Muhammad, they do…

The “God” in the bible and the Koran are most def not the same being.

Muhammed for pedohile of the year in '08.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
You’re lying. Mohammed wasn’t “merely a man”. According to Islam, he’s Mohammed al-insan al-kamil - “The Perfect Man” - meaning he is the standard of perfect behavior for all Muslims. [/quote]

Ok, I’ll bite. Pray tell:

  • What allows you to say I am lying?
  • What makes you say that ‘Mohammed wasn’t “merely a man”’? The Quran spends a great deal of time insisting that the only perfect being in the Universe is God Himself. Even Jesus was not “The Perfect Man” you speak of. Sure, he was free of sin and is a remarkable and admirable character, but he still doesn’t fit the bill of what we would consider today “The Perfect Man”. Let’s just say that of all people who walked the Earth, but had the least shortcomings. Mohamed doesn’t come close to Jesus in that regard. He struggled to make the best decisions as Divine Inspiration was not always there with him. There are documented cases where he would change his mind after reevaluating a same situation.

  • How much of the Quran do you know? How good is your Arabic?

He was “free of sin” but still had “shortcomings”? The two ideas are contradictory.

In addition, Muhammad is called in the Qur’an “uswa hasana” – an excellent model of conduct (33:21). To be sure, the Qur’an uses the same words in speaking of Abraham (60:4, 60:6), but it also says that Muhammad demonstrates “an exalted standard of character” (68:4), and that “he who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad], obeys Allah” (4:80).

Let’s not pretend that the Qur’an is the only cannonical text of Islam. By itself, it is meaningless without the Hadith and Sira, as it contains no historical context for any of its contents.

It matters not whether I understand Arabic, unless the translators of the various Islamic cannonical texts to English were completely inaccurate. If that’s the case, one would have to ask, “Why?”

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
He was “free of sin” but still had “shortcomings”? The two ideas are contradictory. [/quote]

Nope. A shortcoming is a character flaw, and a person that doesn’t defend himself is deficient in that regard. Not to mention his appearance.

Mohamed was indeed a remarkable role model. The man was a highly successful merchant, respected diplomat, inspiring general, brave warrior, eloquent orator, insightful philosopher, devout husband, loving father and faithful friend. So yes, he was without a doubt “uswa hasana”.

How you leaped from that to “The Perfect Man” is a mystery to me.

So? What’s Abraham got to do with “The Perfect Man”?

“Exalted” can have a pejorative meaning, so let’s stick to “great”. Now, khuluk is harder to interpret. After all, Man in general is 'ala khulukeen 'adeem, since it is the species God considers above all the others. And it does not take a genius to realize that a man who gets messages from God through angels must have something that other people don’t (I don’t mean you, HH). But let’s proceed.

Verse 68:4 does not exist in a vacuum but comes after preceding verses. Verse 68:2 literally tells the prophet that he is not crazy. Why would a “Perfect Man” need reassurance? In fact, why would “The Perfect Man” need to be given orders in the first place? Surely, Mohamed has engaged in activities that were later abrogated by the Quran. How does that paradox fit into your “The Perfect Man” theory?

For somebody lecturing others about logic, you sure are clueless. How does that make Mohamed “The Perfect Man”? Your leaps in logic are astounding.

And it’s also funny that you should leave out the next part of the verse: Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying God. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.

Whoever said that? The tin-man?

The Quran is not Moses’ (LSD?) tablets. It’s a text that has to be taken a whole. You can’t grasp the essence of Islam in one reading of the Holy Text. And certainly not if you cherry-pick verses. That’s the reason I asked how much of it do you really know.

Well, you speak of Islam with such authority that one wonders about your background. I mean, I’m pretty certain I spent a heck of a lot of time reading and dissecting the Quran than you. And yes, mastering Arabic (merely understanding it wouldn’t get you very far) is pretty important if you want to analyze the Quran on your own.

P.S: it’s spelled “canonical”.

[quote]Mohamed was indeed a remarkable role model. The man was a highly successful merchant, respected diplomat, inspiring general, brave warrior, eloquent orator, insightful philosopher, devout husband, loving father and faithful friend. So yes, he was without a doubt “uswa hasana”.

How you leaped from that to “The Perfect Man” is a mystery to me. [/quote]

…marrier of 6 year-olds, raider of caravans, murderer, epileptic, slave-owner, trafficker of conspiracy theories, Jew-hater…

He’s your standard of behavior.

Not my “Perfect Man” theory - Islam’s “Perfect Man” theory. "al-insan al-kamil" - Google Search

The questions you just asked are exactly the questions we infidels ask of Muslims. Why would anyone look to such a man as the “uswa hasana”? What you describe as “abrogation” is actually Mohammed or Allah contradicting himself.

You’ve stated that I cherry pick verses, but haven’t rebutted anything I’ve said. So far, you’ve questioned my right to say anything and asked about my knowledge of Arabic, as well as complained about “bad faith”.

I’m not interested in interpreting the Qur’an for myself. I don’t find it to be an inspiring document. Quite the opposite, actually. I’m interested in how MUSLIMS interpret it.

If people want to belive Islam is peaceful and loving, all power to you. I respect that you want to live peaceful lives.

What about groups such as the Muslim brotherhood that preach a more, bloodthirsty, view of the faith?

I must admit, my personal experience with Muslims is limited to one guy I went to university with, one of the first things he asked me was whether I was a Jew, as he hated Israel, and would have to “kick my ass” if I was a Jew. Since then I have read many stories of anti-semitism being preached by Islamic scholars and wondered if this was in the Koran? Is this the Kuffar, we sometimes hear about?

[quote]Joe D. wrote:
If people want to belive Islam is peaceful and loving, all power to you. I respect that you want to live peaceful lives.

What about groups such as the Muslim brotherhood that preach a more, bloodthirsty, view of the faith?

I must admit, my personal experience with Muslims is limited to one guy I went to university with, one of the first things he asked me was whether I was a Jew, as he hated Israel, and would have to “kick my ass” if I was a Jew. Since then I have read many stories of anti-semitism being preached by Islamic scholars and wondered if this was in the Koran? Is this the Kuffar, we sometimes hear about?
[/quote]

The term “kuffar” refers to all non-Muslims. It’s a term of disrespect, and often used with the modifier “dirty” preceding it.

The anti-semitism comes straight out of the Qur’an, which refers to Jews as “apes and pigs” in Qur’an 2:62-65, 5:59-60, and 7:166.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
If Islam is inherently evil, so is Christianity. Get over it.
[/quote]

Let’s see, either mistranslated, taken out of context …or…

Damn, I didn’t think of the THIRD argument!