Jesus Rode a Dinosaur

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
164

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Its far easier to believe a myth than to find the real answer.

A myth? God is a myth to you? What is evolution?

How would you explain how the complexity of the Monarch Butterfly’s incredible migration abilities happened…Evolution?

I’ll go with God or a “myth” as you would call it.
[/quote]

Translation: I can’t figure it out and don’t understand the explanations presented by biology so I’ll defer to one of thousands of man made dieties. In this case I’ll choose the one my culture seems to revere the most at the moment.

165

[quote]Xvim wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Its far easier to believe a myth than to find the real answer.

A myth? God is a myth to you? What is evolution?

How would you explain how the complexity of the Monarch Butterfly’s incredible migration abilities happened…Evolution?

I’ll go with God or a “myth” as you would call it.

Translation: I can’t figure it out and don’t understand the explanations presented by biology so I’ll defer to one of thousands of man made dieties. In this case I’ll choose the one my culture seems to revere the most at the moment.
[/quote]

You really know how to twist things around!

Explain how this butterfly acquired these abilities please.

166

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
pookie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Poor form. There are just as many Christians who are also scientists and doctors as there are people who really want to believe that the world is only 6,000 years old. Your own fault is only engaging in battle with the latter.

Engaging in battle? I think you take these forums way too seriously.

First, that there are scientists and dotors who believe doesn’t lend it any more credibility. Medicine does not address theological issues. Scientists believe in God through faith, not science. Scientific evidence for God is still zero. The fact that most kids get the religious spiel inflicted upon them when they’re too young to have developed the proper critical thinking skills makes early indoctrination quite effective, and long lasting.

As I remember it, last time we discussed your faith, it pretty much ended with you following whatever wasn’t too inconvenient for you (as Luke 6:30 appeared to be). When that was pointed out to you, your answer was basically that you’d live your faith your way and whatever issue God might have with it was between you and Him.

A common term for that behavior is “Salad Bar Christian” Take what you like from the Bible and leave the rest. In that way, we are quite similar; I simply leave more than you do.

I don’t mind revisiting the issue if you wish, but if two thirds of your arguments will again be about me playing games and trying to trap you, don’t bother.

I grew up being taught evolution and the earth is billions of years old. That was what was being called fact. That is what was thrown in my face in the class room. I believed it through junior high school, then after that, I no longer believed it based on my newly acquired “critical thinking”.

I grew up.

[/quote]

And your parents?

167

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Xvim wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Its far easier to believe a myth than to find the real answer.

A myth? God is a myth to you? What is evolution?

How would you explain how the complexity of the Monarch Butterfly’s incredible migration abilities happened…Evolution?

I’ll go with God or a “myth” as you would call it.

Translation: I can’t figure it out and don’t understand the explanations presented by biology so I’ll defer to one of thousands of man made dieties. In this case I’ll choose the one my culture seems to revere the most at the moment.

You really know how to twist things around!

Explain how this butterfly acquired these abilities please.[/quote]

It needed to fly, so through natural selection it did.

A better one would be the seperate evolution of at least 40 verssions of eye.

Do you want me to draw a picture for you?

168

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Xvim wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Its far easier to believe a myth than to find the real answer.

A myth? God is a myth to you? What is evolution?

How would you explain how the complexity of the Monarch Butterfly’s incredible migration abilities happened…Evolution?

I’ll go with God or a “myth” as you would call it.

Translation: I can’t figure it out and don’t understand the explanations presented by biology so I’ll defer to one of thousands of man made dieties. In this case I’ll choose the one my culture seems to revere the most at the moment.

You really know how to twist things around!

Explain how this butterfly acquired these abilities please.[/quote]

It doesn’t aquire abilities, much like you dont aquire the ability to walk, or speak.

It is inate.

169

1 CORINTHIANS 1-19:

For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

170

[quote]ZEB wrote:
1 CORINTHIANS 1-19:

For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[/quote]

Wishful thinking… prideful thinking considering it is man writing this down to exemplify the power of his diety.

Although, men have used religion to counter science at times, by punishing those that would find answers counter to then current dogma.

Thankfully, we are mostly beyond that stage.

However, hiding behind religion and refusing to face the apparent realities of the world certainly does qualify as frustrating when you refuse to learn enough to recognize their verity.

171

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
pookie wrote:
FlyingMumuOfDumb wrote:
I grew up being taught evolution and the earth is billions of years old. That was what was being called fact. That is what was thrown in my face in the class room. I believed it through junior high school, then after that, I no longer believed it based on my newly acquired “critical thinking”.

I grew up.

Science does not require you to accept anything on faith. You can read the studies, the theories and evaluate all the evidence there is for them. But you don’t do that; you’ve never even tried.

It is obvious from what you post here that you are uneducated and poorly read. Had you taken the time to properly research and understand what was presented to you, you might be able to properly question some of the weaker points of various theories.

Instead, you prefer to claim that both science and religion are “beliefs” only supported by “faith” which is simply retarded. Even when arguing the religious side, you are obviously unable to think by yourself, preferring to simply regurgitate whatever “facts” creationist web sites have told you to believe.

News flash: Those sites will reject theories as soon as 0.01% of the evidence doesn’t fit; ignoring the 99.99% that does. Even if 100% of the evidence fit; they’d still make up “facts” to reject it. They also fail to account for new findings or revisions made to various theories, often repeating hundred year old arguments that have been discredited for years.

It is intellectual dishonesty; especially since the Bible is not held to the same scrutiny, being the “Word of God” and all. Any fact not fitting the Bible must be distorted until it fits. Theories contradicting scripture must be rejected no matter the amount of empirical evidence supporting them.

Science, on the other hand, revises and adjusts its theories around new evidence; and invites criticism. Finding better explanation for physical phenomena is how progress is made. Which method appears honest to you?

Quit telling me what I have read and what I haven’t read.

I have seen both sides. Yes, I do go off of faith. To me, it doesn’t even seem like faith sometimes because when I look at the world around me and when I’m holding my 8 month old daughter, I can see what it’s all about. You go off of faith. Yes, there are scientific methods. Still, macroevolution is NOT FACT and CANNOT be proven, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself or others.

Just looking at everything in life and the universe tells me that there is a God. There is a reason we are here.

I don’t believe something exploded with a “big bang” unless there was a God who made it happen. I don’t believe that it is possible AT ALL for everything on this planet to have come out of a “primordial ooze” and I don’t believe that human beings evolved from “ape men”.

I don’t think you are stupid. I just think that you can’t see what I can. Hopefully you will find God. I hope you do. All in all, I hope everyone who posts here does if they haven’t. All the people who have said angry, hatefull, insulting things about me and the other people who believe in God - I hope the best for all of you and that’s sincere.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?
[/quote]

Please explain why the God you speak of could not have created the universe through a Big-Bang type event, and allowed evolution to take place? Do you claim to know his motives and reasons for making the universe the way it is?

I have said this before and I’ll say it again: I work with many physicists and astronomers who are devout Christians (and Jews and Muslims), and they have no problem reconciling their faith with their science. The more we examine Nature, the more fascinating it gets, which should enhance your faith instead of challenging it.

Anyhow, if you don’t like the Big Bang model, you will have to explain why we see a nearly homogeneous background spectrum everywhere in the sky (which is radiation from the early universe). In fact, you will have to explain quite a few things…

And while you are claiming to know everything on faith, there are scientists who are as religious as you actually working on the problems instead of ignoring or evading them.

172

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My goal isn’t to sit here and try to prove anything to you. I am letting you know that belief in scientific findings and belief in God don’t need to be polar opposites like you seem to believe they are.[/quote]

I’m well aware of the large number of believers across all sections of society, in all cultures. It brings nothing to the discussion to point it out, so why do it?

The origins of the universe are not known; teaching any kid otherwise involves teaching a creation myth, be it religious or “scientific.” There are still many things science doesn’t know or understand. Filling those voids with a “God of the gaps” achieves nothing. I don’t see how teaching a kid to think critically and to apply some amount of skepticism is going to put him at any disadvantage.

On the contrary, I understand quite well. I understand that each and every Christian seems to interpret the Bible in his special way; keeping whatever he agrees with and dismissing the rest as poetry, allegory, old laws, Jewish history, or whatever convenient cataloguing allows him to disregard a particular passage. You can’t find a single religious thread where there isn’t an argument between Christians about some part of the Bible.

So I’ve noticed.

Yet many believe it to be the inerrant Word of God from cover to cover. Why is your “Poetry book with good moral teachings” view of the Bible any more valid than someone else’s “The world in 6 days; and we come from dirt and ribs.” view? Where’s the “Bible guide” to tell all the idiots who use it to support homophobia, abortion clinic bombing and slavery that they’ve got it wrong?

With all the varying beliefs, you get varied discussions… If you think that’s “playing games”, fine. I simply can’t argue the same way with Steve0 as with Haney or stellar_horizon, as all their beliefs differ in important ways. In fact, it’s harder to find 2 Christians in total agreement than anything else.

What I don’t understand is how people can find God in the Bible. There’s just too many things that don’t make sense. I simply can’t find anything that appears remotely “divine” or “inspired” in there. Jesus had great moral teachings; but nothing that hadn’t been already said before.

I can’t tear down anyone’s beliefs. I don’t think I’ve ever changed anyone’s mind on the topic, here, or anywhere else on the net. Anyone losing his faith or finding God mostly does it for/by himself. If you feel that questions about your beliefs are “attacks” or attempts at “tearing them down”, that’s your personal take on it.

173

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
vroom wrote:
thou shalt not trespass upon anything that is thy neighbour’s, to take it from him, nor to destroy it

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think they took the politics section out of the top 30 listing?

Because all this religion is bad for business – that’s why.

You are trespassing on the property of another and doing damage, willfully and knowingly.

Oops.

Vroom, would you be so critical about someone posting quotes from Buddha or some other religion other than Christian?

Be careful now as your political correctness is showing!

No. Your constant blather about “Political Correctness” shows your lack of comprehension and bias.

What Vroom–and everyone else–is annoyed with is Zeb being an annoying, trolling asshole who is trying to derail a thread with non-sequiters.

Whether these irrelevant quotes come from the bible or the necronomicon makes no difference. Zeb is, as usual, being a rude, self-righteous prick.

[/quote]

So you think I have a lack of bias? Thanks Bro, That’s the nicest thing anyone ever unintentionally said about me.

As far as Zeb, my question was a fair question. Would you guys be so upset about someone else pushing some other religion? I doubt it as in the PC world it is in to be Buddhist and out to be Christian.

174

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:

You really know how to twist things around!

Explain how this butterfly acquired these abilities please.[/quote]

Well its been awhile since I took biology, but from what I remember, the butterfly’s colors increase its chances of finding a mate and reproducing, so the more colorful ones pass on their genes more than the other less colorful ones. It’s the same with colorful birds, the sounds crickets make, etc.

If I were you I would stick to the complexity (on a molecular scale) of RNA, DNA and other biological molecules. That still IS a problem for evolution theory, but you better enjoy it while it lasts, because biophysicists are working furiously on protein folding and the like.

175

[quote]vroom wrote:
Lorisco,

I’m not aware of any competing theories that better fit the evidence. I mean, there are certainly micro-theories within it, such as what causes mutations or changes and so on.

You miss the point though.

The theory of evolution fits what we know now. And, as you stated, of course the hypothesis remains, because nothing has been found that really appears to counter that theory.
[/quote]
Nothing has been found to definitively support it either. I have no problem with keeping the theory, even with lack of support, as long as it’s made clear that it is a theory and not proven by science.

Look at all the idiots on this site who think evolution is proven and tell me that science hasn’t misrepresented or overrepresented that facts around evolution. My issue is that it is taught as fact, when it is far from it.

The idea that the world was flat was a scientific fact of that day, like evolution today, until proven wrong by someone sailing around what was considered the end of the world. They undoubtedly defended this theory with the same ignorance that people defend evolution today.

[quote]

Trying the old PC tactic is pure bullshit, by the way.[/quote]

Hey, when you stop following the crowd I will stop pulling the PC card.

176

Are you changing the question now that I’ve already answered it or are you just looking for a second opinion?

177

What crowd might this be?

When I am at an intersection and the light turns green, I generally go. Is that crowd following behavior too? I mean, I’m not going the same place, but I have to use the same roads.

So, the fact that I make up my own mind, and speak it, and it even coincides with the beliefs or values of others, does that qualify as following the crowd?

Perhaps you should think about what you are saying and what it means.

There are goals and ideals that people can follow that lead to a series of conclusions. The fact that many people have the same conclusions does not make them followers… though some of course could be.

You should learn to tell the difference between a follower and someone who arrives at their own decision in the same place as others.

Perhaps you could elucidate a position on something from first principles, instead of quote fully formed talking points that you agree with? Otherwise, you are the follower in these parts…

178

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Quit telling me what I have read and what I haven’t read. [/quote]

You’re the one who’s telling us you haven’t read much on evolution and on science in general; not in so many words, but in how you speak on those topics.

So your daughter is an argument for God’s existence now? I’ve got kids too; was there at their birth and I love them more than life itself… but I don’t get God from that.

As for macroevolution, I’ve read what evidence there is for it, and I feel that there is enough support to consider it a fact. There is no competing theory that properly explains all the same evidence anyway.

For some reason, you seem to have made up your mind that macroevolution is simply impossible; notwithstanding that you don’t really understand it; or that there is a lot of support from different fields supporting it. You simply decided that macroevolution was crap and that’s it. Wishful thinking might work for you; but wishing for something doesn’t make it so.

Why? What makes a reason necessary?

You’re free to believe what you want. There are many theories about abiogenesis (life from non-life) and none of those theories contradict any physical laws. They can’t all be right, but one might. To dismiss it as “impossible” outright is not scientific.

Note that none of that precludes the existence of a god. Maybe God makes a “Big Bang” and then things, of themselves, according to the physical laws of the universe, lead to intelligent life. I sure find this idea of God more awe inspiring than the classic “tinkerer God” who build a couple of humans from dirt and ribs.

[quote]I don’t think you are stupid. I just think that you can’t see what I can. Hopefully you will find God. I hope you do. All in all, I hope everyone who posts here does if they haven’t. All the people who have said angry, hatefull, insulting things about me and the other people who believe in God - I hope the best for all of you and that’s sincere.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?[/quote]

I think you’re just seeing what you want to see. Whenever some fact of the world doesn’t agree with your belief system, then that fact must be wrong and therefore ignored or falsely claimed to be a lie.

Personnally, I’d rather adjust whatever I believe to fit reality rather than the other way around. I think the God idea is comforting to a lot of people who can’t deal with a world where there isn’t a big “daddy” figure to watch over them.

179

[quote]swordthrower wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
pookie wrote:
FlyingMumuOfDumb wrote:
I grew up being taught evolution and the earth is billions of years old. That was what was being called fact. That is what was thrown in my face in the class room. I believed it through junior high school, then after that, I no longer believed it based on my newly acquired “critical thinking”.

I grew up.

Science does not require you to accept anything on faith. You can read the studies, the theories and evaluate all the evidence there is for them. But you don’t do that; you’ve never even tried.

It is obvious from what you post here that you are uneducated and poorly read. Had you taken the time to properly research and understand what was presented to you, you might be able to properly question some of the weaker points of various theories.

Instead, you prefer to claim that both science and religion are “beliefs” only supported by “faith” which is simply retarded. Even when arguing the religious side, you are obviously unable to think by yourself, preferring to simply regurgitate whatever “facts” creationist web sites have told you to believe.

News flash: Those sites will reject theories as soon as 0.01% of the evidence doesn’t fit; ignoring the 99.99% that does. Even if 100% of the evidence fit; they’d still make up “facts” to reject it. They also fail to account for new findings or revisions made to various theories, often repeating hundred year old arguments that have been discredited for years.

It is intellectual dishonesty; especially since the Bible is not held to the same scrutiny, being the “Word of God” and all. Any fact not fitting the Bible must be distorted until it fits. Theories contradicting scripture must be rejected no matter the amount of empirical evidence supporting them.

Science, on the other hand, revises and adjusts its theories around new evidence; and invites criticism. Finding better explanation for physical phenomena is how progress is made. Which method appears honest to you?

Quit telling me what I have read and what I haven’t read.

I have seen both sides. Yes, I do go off of faith. To me, it doesn’t even seem like faith sometimes because when I look at the world around me and when I’m holding my 8 month old daughter, I can see what it’s all about. You go off of faith. Yes, there are scientific methods. Still, macroevolution is NOT FACT and CANNOT be proven, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself or others.

Just looking at everything in life and the universe tells me that there is a God. There is a reason we are here.

I don’t believe something exploded with a “big bang” unless there was a God who made it happen. I don’t believe that it is possible AT ALL for everything on this planet to have come out of a “primordial ooze” and I don’t believe that human beings evolved from “ape men”.

I don’t think you are stupid. I just think that you can’t see what I can. Hopefully you will find God. I hope you do. All in all, I hope everyone who posts here does if they haven’t. All the people who have said angry, hatefull, insulting things about me and the other people who believe in God - I hope the best for all of you and that’s sincere.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Please explain why the God you speak of could not have created the universe through a Big-Bang type event, and allowed evolution to take place? Do you claim to know his motives and reasons for making the universe the way it is?

I have said this before and I’ll say it again: I work with many physicists and astronomers who are devout Christians (and Jews and Muslims), and they have no problem reconciling their faith with their science. The more we examine Nature, the more fascinating it gets, which should enhance your faith instead of challenging it.

Anyhow, if you don’t like the Big Bang model, you will have to explain why we see a nearly homogeneous background spectrum everywhere in the sky (which is radiation from the early universe). In fact, you will have to explain quite a few things…

And while you are claiming to know everything on faith, there are scientists who are as religious as you actually working on the problems instead of ignoring or evading them.[/quote]

I do believe in “selective hearing”.

Read what I wrote again and tell me how I said a big bang never happened. I said that I don’t beleive it happened UNLESS God made it happen.

You guys really need to stop twisting words around and leaving things out.

180

Pookie,

When you’re children were just infants, and you sat and played with them, did you ever wonder why when you were making a funny sound or making a funny face, they laughed?

I can sit there with my daughter and make her laugh over and over again with a big smile on her face. Why does she do that? Where does that come from? I never taught her how to laugh. I never taught her what was funny.

Why don’t animals sit there with their babies and make them laugh? Why do their babies not understand humor?

How does she just know?

181

[quote]pookie wrote:
I think you’re just seeing what you want to see. Whenever some fact of the world doesn’t agree with your belief system, then that fact must be wrong and therefore ignored or falsely claimed to be a lie.
[/quote]

Again, macroevolution CANNOT be proven and is NOT fact.

This amazing planet and all of the amazing FACTS within only tells me that there is a creator.

I don’t claim that anything else is a lie. I just think man is getting the evolution part and where we came from wrong. I said it before - there are simple things that we can’t understand, yet in your mind we have billions of years figured out despite the FACT that we don’t have an enormous amount of missing pieces in your story?

182

[quote]Why don’t animals sit there with their babies and make them laugh? Why do their babies not understand humor?

How does she just know?[/quote]

I won’t claim to be Pookie, but not having “the” answer doesn’t mean it has to be because of God.

How come kittens purr when their mothers give them attention? Mother kittens haven’t had time to teach their young anything, but they just do it anyway.

While I haven’t seen a cat or dog laugh, I have seen them enjoy playing. I’ve also seen them act pleased when shown affection and actively seek it.

183

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Pookie,

When you’re children were just infants, and you sat and played with them, did you ever wonder why when you were making a funny sound or making a funny face, they laughed?[/quote]

Who hasn’t?

You never taught her how to breathe or suckle or cry either. Some things are innate. And if she’s like most infant, she’ll find your voice calming, because she heard it while in the womb. It’s familiar and reassuring, like the smell of mom and being held tightly.

Your baby does not “understand” humor. She won’t laugh at jokes, no matter how funny they are. She’ll mostly laugh when she’s surprised by something unexpected. Hiding your face and revealing it suddenly, funny noises, that kind of thing. If the unexpected event threatens her (a very loud noise, for example), she’ll start to cry instead of laugh.

If you do the same thing over and over and over, eventually, the “unexpected” becomes expected and it won’t be funny anymore.

A lot of it is mostly reflex and innate behavior. The real fun starts around 18-24 months when they learn to string simple sentences together.