[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If it’s good, who cares where it camefrom.
If it’s confusing, tortured, conflicting, dividing, disputed, misleading, coercive, threatening, nonsensical, whimsical, jealous, angry, etc., its just business as usual. [/quote]
Fixed[/quote]
Please don’t “fix” my post. We’re not in GAL or SAMA and you’re too sincere for that bullshit. Just respect my opinion like I respect yours. We just disagree.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If it’s good, who cares where it camefrom.
If it’s confusing, tortured, conflicting, dividing, disputed, misleading, coercive, threatening, nonsensical, whimsical, jealous, angry, etc., its just business as usual. [/quote]
Fixed[/quote]
Please don’t “fix” my post. We’re not in GAL or SAMA and you’re too sincere for that bullshit. Just respect my opinion like I respect yours. We just disagree. [/quote]
Do we really disagree?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If it’s good, who cares where it camefrom.
If it’s confusing, tortured, conflicting, dividing, disputed, misleading, coercive, threatening, nonsensical, whimsical, jealous, angry, etc., its just business as usual. [/quote]
Fixed[/quote]
Please don’t “fix” my post. We’re not in GAL or SAMA and you’re too sincere for that bullshit. Just respect my opinion like I respect yours. We just disagree. [/quote]
Do we really disagree?
[/quote]
Explain
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< See how this works?[/quote]Indeed I do
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Trying to apply “logical and compelling” to Christianity?
Good luck with that. [/quote]
Or Islam. Or any other religion.[/quote]
Sounds of haters.[/quote]
Faith and logic don’t mix. Jesus himself would agree.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:<<< Faith and logic don’t mix. Jesus himself would agree.[/quote]No, He would not. Logic ungoverned by saving Christian faith is sin. Not being conformed to the world, but being transformed by the renewing of the mind (Romans 12:2) in Christ is the only path to the legitimate use of logic. Fallen sinful independent autonomous logic and faith are the unleashed mortal enemies of each other. Unregenerate man is wholly incapable of reaching ultimate foundational truth until born again from death into new life in Christ. That is what Jesus Himself would and did agree to, as well as also offering Himself as the remedy.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< Then we don’t need to have that discussion 
I’m not here to refute Catholicism. My only point is that that which they rest their arguments upon is disputed. No more, no less. [/quote]Could you name for me just one “undisputed” belief about absolutely ANYTHING of consequence. I and millions of others dispute every single syllable you said you believe, probably including that Jesus was “good” by your defintion of “good”. You could have just said you were a unitarian universalist and saved a lot of typing =] Disputation only proves, as does every other fact of existence, that the biblical living triune God is true and every man left to himself, including me is a liar. Do yourself a favor and concentrate on epistomology friend. Everything else flows from there. There are 2 kinds. The Christian kind and all the rest.
[/quote]
You know something? I almost let it pass but I have to point out your dismissive attempt to label me.
“Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion with Jewish-Christian roots. It has no creed. It affirms the worth of human beings, advocates freedom of belief and the search for advancing truth, and tries to provide a warm, open, supportive community for people who believe that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion.”
Not that I find the above repugnant. I think it’s a far better message than the current “we’re right and you’re wrong because we believe it” state of affairs in existence now. But first I’d point out that I don’t identify per se with either Christianity or Judaism. If you did your homework, you’d soon learn that both traditions are rich with those that preceded them. They are not original.
If it’s good, I think it came from God.
If it’s confusing, tortured, conflicting, dividing, disputed, misleading, coercive, threatening, nonsensical, whimsical, jealous, angry, etc., it came from man. [/quote]
Outstanding. If I was in your vicinity, I would buy you a beer for this one.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If it’s good, I think it came from God.
[/quote]
Because it’s alway so perfectly clear what is “good” and “bad.”
[/quote]
I know you think you’re being clever here, but I happen to think it’s very clear. If you don’t, why don’t you drop the cloak of cleverness and give us an example?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If it’s good, I think it came from God.
[/quote]
Because it’s alway so perfectly clear what is “good” and “bad.”
[/quote]
I know you think you’re being clever here, but I happen to think it’s very clear. If you don’t, why don’t you drop the cloak of cleverness and give us an example?[/quote]
This is silly. It shouldn’t need to be argued that “good” and “bad” are often situational, relative, and difficult to judge at any given time.
But ok, let’s play some: My younger brother got picked on and bullied to no end in jr. high school. Damn near got suicidal over it. Was that “good” from God, or bad?[/quote]
Playing is what you’re doing.
Perhaps your internal compass is “situational, relative and difficult to judge at any given time”.
How can being picked on and bullied be “good”? Do you have a point here or will you continue in your failure-to-state construct?
And by the way, in case you’re NOT following along, my “good” and “bad” comment was wholly within the context of religious teachings across the world and throughout time. However, I’m willing to expand it to your “argument”, once you actually state a claim.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Trying to apply “logical and compelling” to Christianity?
Good luck with that. [/quote]
Or Islam. Or any other religion.[/quote]
Sounds of haters.[/quote]
Faith and logic don’t mix. Jesus himself would agree.[/quote]
Then you don’t understand either.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:More for Chris:http://www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm[/quote]Just can’t escape the dispensationalists. Hardcore Arminian dispensationalists this time. Lord help us. That site is well meaning and does have some good stuff, but wouldn’t be my pick for truth about catholicism. You won’t surprise Chris or any other knowledgeable Catholic with this. They have an answer satisfactory to themselves for absolutely everything. Yes, just like me.
[/quote]
I just picked one random. There are 5 million hits for “false catholic doctrine”. Would you like me to reference them all?[/quote]I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but nobody on this site hates the Catholic church more than I do for a cloud piercing mountain of reasons ranging from the simply biblical to the foundational and epistemological (also biblical). My point is that you could find a biblical prophecy wherein God Himself plainly declares the address of the vatican, the number of stolen bricks in her edifice and naming the pope by name, birthday and DNA as abominations in His sight and they will find a way around it. The scriptures carry no weight whatsoever unless predigested and spoon fed by their own “magesterium”.
[/quote]
And all of them fallacious. Stolen bricks? You mean from the Colosseum, where they use to kill Christians?
Most of your hatred is based on a building. I won’t bother you with facts since you will ignore them anyway and evidenced before. But let’s be very clear, you are more attached to the hatred than you are the facts behind them. And that is a very sad thing for a supposed Christian.
You want to know what’s not in the scripture? TULIP. That shit was more man made than St. Peter’s itself.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< If it’s good, I think it came from God. >>>[/quote]Like I say. Epistemology my friend. I let God define “good” for me. Also, you may be surprised at the research I’ve done.
[/quote]
So what did he say ‘Good’ is?
[quote]Pwrbldr4life wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< Then we don’t need to have that discussion I’m not here to refute Catholicism. My only point is that that which they rest their arguments upon is disputed. No more, no less. [/quote]Could you name for me just one “undisputed” belief about absolutely ANYTHING of consequence. I and millions of others dispute every single syllable you said you believe, probably including that Jesus was “good” by your defintion of “good”. You could have just said you were a unitarian universalist and saved a lot of typing =] Disputation only proves, as does every other fact of existence, that the biblical living triune God is true and every man left to himself, including me is a liar. Do yourself a favor and concentrate on epistomology friend. Everything else flows from there. There are 2 kinds. The Christian kind and all the rest.
[/quote]
You know something? I almost let it pass but I have to point out your dismissive attempt to label me.
“Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion with Jewish-Christian roots. It has no creed. It affirms the worth of human beings, advocates freedom of belief and the search for advancing truth, and tries to provide a warm, open, supportive community for people who believe that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion.”
Not that I find the above repugnant. I think it’s a far better message than the current “we’re right and you’re wrong because we believe it” state of affairs in existence now. But first I’d point out that I don’t identify per se with either Christianity or Judaism. If you did your homework, you’d soon learn that both traditions are rich with those that preceded them. They are not original.
If it’s good, I think it came from God.
If it’s confusing, tortured, conflicting, dividing, disputed, misleading, coercive, threatening, nonsensical, whimsical, jealous, angry, etc., it came from man. [/quote]
Outstanding. If I was in your vicinity, I would buy you a beer for this one.
[/quote]
That was good.
You can buy me a beer, or I’d prefer you throw some of that Jack on the rocks, though…
[quote]pat wrote:<<< Most of your hatred is based on a building. >>>[/quote]Tiribulus wrote a few days ago:[quote]<<< the theology of that church and the walking deadness of her members provided plenty of evidence of her anti Christian nature without resorting to playing the pedo/cover up card. >>>[/quote]pat wrote:[quote]<<< So what did he say ‘Good’ is?[/quote]He didn’t, but it won’t be what God, who alone has that prerogative says it is so what difference does it make? That is good which reflects His purpose and power and thereby advances His kingdom and glory. Created man, especially fallen, sinful created man, is breathtakingly ill equipped to utter so much as a single syllable in that regard on purpose from his own mind and being.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:<<< Most of your hatred is based on a building. >>>[/quote]Tiribulus wrote a few days ago:[quote]<<< the theology of that church and the walking deadness of her members provided plenty of evidence of her anti Christian nature without resorting to playing the pedo/cover up card. >>>[/quote]pat wrote:[quote]<<< So what did he say ‘Good’ is?[/quote]He didn’t, but it won’t be what God, who alone has that prerogative says it is so what difference does it make? That is good which reflects His purpose and power and thereby advances His kingdom and glory. Created man, especially fallen, sinful created man, is breathtakingly ill equipped to utter so much as a single syllable in that regard on purpose from his own mind and being.
[/quote]
When I deem something “good” because it is in harmony with something inside me so intrinsically and instinctively knowing what “good” is, isn’t that not from my own mind and being but from that divine spark that you would label the Holy Ghost?
Are you that caught up on labels, words, doctrines that is obfuscates the obvious truth?
If it’s good, I dare say it’s His “purpose and power”. You find it in a book, and surrender blind faith to it. I look around, and within, and I can find it just fine. Shhhh. Stop reading, quoting and preaching. Look around. You might just see it! Weren’t you yourself doing some good in your city?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< If it’s good, I dare say it’s His “purpose and power”. >>>[/quote]I say (like he does) that if it’s His purpose and power then it’s good. Eternal difference. You have quite typically created a god who looks and acts pretty much like you and is hence in your own image.
Proverbs 16:25
[quote]There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.[/quote]This passage in the first chapter of the first epistle of the apostle Paul to the church which was at Corinth has your name all over it. [quote]18-For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19-For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20-Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22-For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23-but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24-but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25-Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.[/quote]