[quote]Dboy wrote:
I’m not saying you can create the same stress on an upper/lower or total body split. But if you created stress more often, (as usually is the case w/ total body and upper/lower splits) I believe many people can see as good or better results than w/ the “annihilating” the muscle every 5th or 7th day method. (AGAIN, I’m not against body-part splits, I’m of the opinion that any set-up can work if set up properly)
And I’m definitely NOT saying Professor X is wrong in what he is doing. As I mentioned above, I’m curious what his results would be (or anyone’s results would be if they were to change to a different set-up for awhile) if he were to train for awhile w/ a TB or upper/lower split.
Danny
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If TBT was the way to go wouldnt more pro bodybuilders be training that way to pack on the size? I’m not the defacto bodybuilder guy but I have yet to see any bodybuilder use, show (in their workouts, DVD etc.) or advocate doing total body as a way to put on muscle.
I’m not saying you cant pack on size TBT wise, that happens, but not at the rate of a split can. You just cant put forth the same effort/volume, unless you are aided in some way.
If he went from 140 to 210 in two years, how much of that is muscle. I am not a nutritionist, but if you gained that much weight wouldnt a lot of that be fat?
i think what you are missing is that JB worked his arse off
how many guys out there actually commit that much effort on a consistant basis
Same with X whatever he does he does it intensly and regularly, loads of guys say they are following a specific workout-such as westside, but the reality of it is life gets in the way etc.
commitment and hard work gets it done. Sure there are a myriad of ways to train, but rule number 1 is turn up.
JB also had a mentor that knew what he was doing in terms of motivation, training and eating, that is worth millions, imagine Dan John or CW working in your gym, i think progress would shoot up dramatically
[quote]teebone2223 wrote:
If he went from 140 to 210 in two years, how much of that is muscle. I am not a nutritionist, but if you gained that much weight wouldnt a lot of that be fat? [/quote]
Not if you did what he mentioned in the article linked above. If don’t have a really fast metabolism, try it, it will work.
[quote]teebone2223 wrote:
If he went from 140 to 210 in two years, how much of that is muscle. I am not a nutritionist, but if you gained that much weight wouldnt a lot of that be fat? [/quote]
Yeah, I’m sure there was quite a bit of fat gain, (how much, i don’t know?). But for most people, to make considerable gains, they need to take a step back in order to take two steps forward.
I must add this here; I’ve been doing fullbody workouts since I started training many years ago.
I have done splits but only for 2-3 weeks at a time here and there. I’ve realized they weren’t for me through experimentation.
I started out weighing 175 lbs at 6’. I now weigh between 255 and 265 at 6’-2" depending on BF%.
That’s a lot of muscle gain over the years and it came almost completely from fullbody workouts.
Again, I’m not pushing fullbody workouts over splits or anything else that works. We all must realize how different we are and must learn for ourselves what works best.
Taking an author’s view from this site or anywhere else as gospel is shortsighted at best and moronic at worst.
Professor X obviously responds quite well to his type of training, he’s big, lean and strong. I respond better to my style. Notice how X has HIS style and I have mine. And many more guys (and girls) here have worked out thier own style as well.
That is what everyone else must do. Use the brains that God gave you and work on coming up with an individualized program for yourself.
It shouldn’t take more than a year to at least start figuring out what works and what doesn’t. If you still rely on the next training article to show you what you need to do, something is wrong.
While CW seems to advocate shorter workouts, he also uses supersets and shorter rest periods in almost all of his programs. So maybe the increased density of work in a CW style program creates a training effect similar to the longer workouts JB prescribes for G-Flux.
It seems sort of meaningless to label some workouts as simply “short” and some as “long” when there are all these other variables present.
The main reason why the authors on this site create so many different workouts is to accomodate the different lifestyles and goals of the readers.
Some people can only workout 3 times a week (e.g. single parents with 2 jobs?), so maybe “workout A” would be a good fit for them. Some people want to be MMA fighters, so “workout B” might fit better into their training schedule.
But if your goal is to be “bodybuilder huge” and you’re willing to put in the time, effort and commitement, then I think most of the authors on this site would recommend training at a high frequency for optimal results – at least at some point in the periodization.
Also, the point was already made about how very few (if any) pro bodybuilders use full body workouts. Could you imagine Ronnie Coleman doing full body workouts with the massive amounts of weights he uses? That would just be too much stress on his body in one session.
Just sitting at my desk eating some grilled turkey breast and quinoa (gotta love refeed days) AND enjoying reading through this thread.
I’ll just add that anyone who limits themselves exclusively to one training methodology over another is potentially missing out on some real growth opportunities and not to mention, some fun.
As I’ve indicated in a few of my own threads, I’ve been using CW’s programs exclusively for the past year leading up to my first show last May. I’m still using a CW-template leading up to my next one in Oct., albeit with some specialization on specific areas.
Is one type of methodology better than another? Of course not. I’ve been really happy with the gains I’ve made with CW’s programs because they involved C-H-A-N-G-E. I trained using probably pretty poorly designed bp splits for years and felt that I had reached a point of stagnation. At the time, CW’s stuff was “just what the doctor ordered.”
Having said that, once I get through this next show, I’m looking forward to changing things again, and it will likely involve bp splits.
I also think alot of people tend to overanalyze things. Eat often, lift consistently, sleep as much as you can, rinse, repeat.
For the record, I went from 140 at about 7-9% body fat (not sure exactly but this is an educated guess) to 210 at 12% (7 site caliper test). So I gained about 15lbs of fat and 55lbs of LBM.
Not a bad trade off, eh?
Further, even with the extra 15lbs of fat, I looked a helluva lot better at 210 than at 140.
[quote]derek wrote:
I started out weighing 175 lbs at 6’. I now weigh between 255 and 265 at 6’-2" depending on BF%…
Professor X obviously responds quite well to his type of training, he’s big, lean and strong. I respond better to my style. Notice how X has HIS style and I have mine. And many more guys (and girls) here have worked out thier own style as well.
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I dunno, Prof may have gotten bigger and stronger with his style, but you managed to grow 2 inches taller with yours!!! I’d say you’ve got the upper hand there (pun totally intended).
[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
For the record, I went from 140 at about 7-9% body fat (not sure exactly but this is an educated guess) to 210 at 12% (7 site caliper test). So I gained about 15lbs of fat and 55lbs of LBM.
Not a bad trade off, eh?
Further, even with the extra 15lbs of fat, I looked a helluva lot better at 210 than at 140.
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I don’t think many understand the concept. A guy who weighs over 230lbs can get away with carrying more body fat and still look “built” assuming he isn’t truly nearing obesity. A bodybuilder at 15% at 230lbs is nothing like someone the same height with 15% at only 150lbs. I think people are too caught up on their “number” in the first place.
[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
For the record, I went from 140 at about 7-9% body fat (not sure exactly but this is an educated guess) to 210 at 12% (7 site caliper test). So I gained about 15lbs of fat and 55lbs of LBM.
Not a bad trade off, eh?
Further, even with the extra 15lbs of fat, I looked a helluva lot better at 210 than at 140.
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That’s UNBELIEVABLE progress! I made the comment a couple posts back saying somin’ like: “sometimes you hafta take a step back in order to go two steps forward.” Obviously ~ 55 lbs gain in LBM while only gaining ~ 15 lbs of FM is NOT taking a step back. I just made that comment b/c many people seem to get it their heads that if they lose some visibility in their abs while adding weigth, that their physiques are suffering for it…therefore the never really make progress due to fear of losing the 6-pack. And that is too bad!
[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
For the record, I went from 140 at about 7-9% body fat (not sure exactly but this is an educated guess) to 210 at 12% (7 site caliper test). So I gained about 15lbs of fat and 55lbs of LBM.
Not a bad trade off, eh?
Further, even with the extra 15lbs of fat, I looked a helluva lot better at 210 than at 140.
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I don’t know some of these new posters look like ripped city at 140 - 155…
If TBT was the way to go wouldnt more pro bodybuilders be training that way to pack on the size? I’m not the defacto bodybuilder guy but I have yet to see any bodybuilder use, show (in their workouts, DVD etc.) or advocate doing total body as a way to put on muscle.
I’m not saying you cant pack on size TBT wise, that happens, but not at the rate of a split can. You just cant put forth the same effort/volume, unless you are aided in some way.[/quote]
pro bodybuilders take an assload of steroids, i dont. i for the first time in my life am over 200 lbs from power lifting/full body type of workouts. im not saying this is the end all be all. but it has worked for me(5x5/10x3 compound lift stuff).
i mean, what day is bench press day? is that chest day or tri day? or do you do chest /tri’s? or chest /back? or chest back tris? well hell, then you are on an upper lower split.
what about clean and press day? what the hell day does that go on?
one last thing about BBers. i am inspired by a lot of shit the pros do, i think ronnie is awesome, vic martinez, flex and especially arnold and franco but not one of them was/is clean. the naturals (god’s honest true naturals) do not impress me so much that i would think they have a monopoly on the best way to train.
also, some of you say you could never train your body with the same intensity you train the single muscle group. but i say, i could never train hard tomorrow, the way i busted my ass today.
the last thing ill say, is that if what you are doing is working, keep on keeping on. but if you are sucking, give something else a go
[quote]John M Berardi wrote:
You know, it’s unfortunate. About 3 years ago someone broke into my car and stole my gym bag. In it was my first 5 years of training and nutrition data. It was a gold mine and I could have shared some of my early splits with you. To bad it’s gone.
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Those thieves probably wouldn’t even have an idea of what they had stolen. I reckon they would be worth a fair bit on T-bay!
[quote]elliot007 wrote:
also, some of you say you could never train your body with the same intensity you train the single muscle group. but i say, i could never train hard tomorrow, the way i busted my ass today.
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What? You missed the point. Also, to answer your question about “clean and presses”, why do you think everyone needs to do that? I don’t do them and haven’t done them in years. If you do, fine, but it is little restricting to think that way. It isn’t like someone who doesn’t do clean and presses on a regular basis is somehow going to be less developed if they train specific body parts.
I think training full body might be good for SOME beginners. I think many of you seem to forget that is exactly who some of those programs are geared towards.
I think a lot of it has to do with what you enjoy and can bring intensity and enthusiasm to day after day/week after week/month after month.
Speaking of which, why are there no split body workouts on this site?
And can someone point me toward a good 4 day/week split workout? Prof?
I made great gains early on annhialating a body part once per week. Might like to get back to doing that now and then. I’m feeling a little plateauish.
[quote]futuredave wrote:
I think a lot of it has to do with what you enjoy and can bring intensity and enthusiasm to day after day/week after week/month after month.
Speaking of which, why are there no split body workouts on this site?
And can someone point me toward a good 4 day/week split workout? Prof?
I made great gains early on annhialating a body part once per week. Might like to get back to doing that now and then. I’m feeling a little plateauish.[/quote]
I’d say there aren’t many, (if any) body part training splits on this site b/c most of the authors do not believe this to be the ideal method for most trainees. BUT, i do believe that Coach Thib and Poliquin have a few BP splits in a couple of their articles.