Jay at 22...

Off Topic
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[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
So the before is the black and white? LOL jk. If the black and white is him at 22 years old that is a 7 year difference. I do not know what age he started taking steroids but 7 years is a long ass time to gain to 260lbs+. NOT saying steroids was the only factor that helped him get there but other things such as genetics, nutrition, and hard work goes a long way. [/quote]

I’ve watched a couple of Jay’s vids and he has said a few times that he started training at 18 years old, and when he first stepped into a gym he could be bench 315 for reps (said he was already strong due to working on his parents farm)

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[quote]Goodfellow wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
So the before is the black and white? LOL jk. If the black and white is him at 22 years old that is a 7 year difference. I do not know what age he started taking steroids but 7 years is a long ass time to gain to 260lbs+. NOT saying steroids was the only factor that helped him get there but other things such as genetics, nutrition, and hard work goes a long way. [/quote]

I’ve watched a couple of Jay’s vids and he has said a few times that he started training at 18 years old, and when he first stepped into a gym he could be bench 315 for reps (said he was already strong due to working on his parents farm)[/quote]

Well, you guys have to realize that isn’t that uncommon especially around here. “farm boys” are know for usually being stockier than the average city dwelling suburban kid…much like guys who grow up in rougher neighborhoods seem to carry more mass on them.

Your body develops according to a need.

It is just that many on this site haven’t figured that out yet and think they will get bigger muscles just because they showed up.

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^^ So than there isn’t any mass carry over from posting on a form?

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[quote]elano wrote:
I can’t believe Jay didn’t win.[/quote]

x2 Jay > Branch in that video.

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theres also this

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400×761 58.5 KB

young cutler

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another young cutler

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[quote]trav123456 wrote:
280 lb off season they said, Jay’s 5’9". I wonder what his weight has been at throughout the years.[/quote]

as far as im aware from what ive read in places he started training at 190lbs within 6 months he was 240lbs then diet down for where he lost to branch around 210-215lbs. turned pro 240-245lbs, placed second to ronnie in 2001 around 250lb then by 2005 he was 280lb onstage, alegedly won the 06 olympia at 286lbs an won 2009 olympia at 271lbs.

as far as offseason hes sat 315-320lbs for many years now

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Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?

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[quote]optheta wrote:
Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?[/quote]

Most had been lifting by that age if they were going to be really big. It is RARE to see someone who literally just picked up a weight in their late 20’s reach that level. There are, however, many guys who were skinny teenagers before they started lifting.

It also depends on what you mean by “well beyond others”. Someone could easily be bigger than most people just at around 220lbs at average height.

Bodybuilding is an activity where the people with the ability for it show signs early on after training. Even if you start off skinny, if over 5 years, people hardly recognize you, you just might have the genes for this. However, if after 5 years people still don’t even know you lift without you telling them or bringing it up, you either lack the genetics, the drive, or the innate athletic ability to even gain much muscle.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?[/quote]

Most had been lifting by that age if they were going to be really big. It is RARE to see someone who literally just picked up a weight in their late 20’s reach that level. There are, however, many guys who were skinny teenagers before they started lifting.

It also depends on what you mean by “well beyond others”. Someone could easily be bigger than most people just at around 220lbs at average height.

Bodybuilding is an activity where the people with the ability for it show signs early on after training. Even if you start off skinny, if over 5 years, people hardly recognize you, you just might have the genes for this. However, if after 5 years people still don’t even know you lift without you telling them or bringing it up, you either lack the genetics, the drive, or the innate athletic ability to even gain much muscle.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying and agree with most of it, but I wouldn’t say that it takes innate athletic ability to gain muscle. Some of the biggest guys I know have never been that athletic, and some of the better athletes I know have a hard time gaining muscle, at least to an “accelerated” level.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?[/quote]

Most had been lifting by that age if they were going to be really big. It is RARE to see someone who literally just picked up a weight in their late 20’s reach that level. There are, however, many guys who were skinny teenagers before they started lifting.

It also depends on what you mean by “well beyond others”. Someone could easily be bigger than most people just at around 220lbs at average height.

Bodybuilding is an activity where the people with the ability for it show signs early on after training. Even if you start off skinny, if over 5 years, people hardly recognize you, you just might have the genes for this. However, if after 5 years people still don’t even know you lift without you telling them or bringing it up, you either lack the genetics, the drive, or the innate athletic ability to even gain much muscle.[/quote]

Hmm alright interesting. I know you mention this often about the people on this site claiming to be 200lbs yet look nothing like you did when you were at that. Is that cause you had the ability to look bigger or more then likely are those doofs just lieing ya think?

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?[/quote]

Most had been lifting by that age if they were going to be really big. It is RARE to see someone who literally just picked up a weight in their late 20’s reach that level. There are, however, many guys who were skinny teenagers before they started lifting.

It also depends on what you mean by “well beyond others”. Someone could easily be bigger than most people just at around 220lbs at average height.

Bodybuilding is an activity where the people with the ability for it show signs early on after training. Even if you start off skinny, if over 5 years, people hardly recognize you, you just might have the genes for this. However, if after 5 years people still don’t even know you lift without you telling them or bringing it up, you either lack the genetics, the drive, or the innate athletic ability to even gain much muscle.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying and agree with most of it, but I wouldn’t say that it takes innate athletic ability to gain muscle. Some of the biggest guys I know have never been that athletic, and some of the better athletes I know have a hard time gaining muscle, at least to an “accelerated” level.[/quote]

That would make you incorrect. Innate athletic ability can also refer to how well or how quickly someone adapts to training and learns their own body in terms of what works and what doesn’t. I didn’t need all of the help some of these guys seem to. I also reached arms over 18" pretty quickly. I do not have issues with doing chest exercises yet somehow not feeling my chest.

Your problem is you think of “athletic ability” only in terms of sports…as if there is no connection between results seen and the ability to quickly adapt to what you throw at the human body.

There isn’t much basic difference between the guy who starts this at 150lbs yet blows past everyone in terms of adaptability and someone who is in junior high playing football for the first time yet quickly proves to catch on better than most.

We get it, some of you feel some need to act like bodybuilding involves no athleticism at all. That doesn’t make it true.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
So the before is the black and white? LOL jk. If the black and white is him at 22 years old that is a 7 year difference. I do not know what age he started taking steroids but 7 years is a long ass time to gain to 260lbs+. NOT saying steroids was the only factor that helped him get there but other things such as genetics, nutrition, and hard work goes a long way. [/quote]

I’ve watched a couple of Jay’s vids and he has said a few times that he started training at 18 years old, and when he first stepped into a gym he could be bench 315 for reps (said he was already strong due to working on his parents farm)[/quote]

Well, you guys have to realize that isn’t that uncommon especially around here. “farm boys” are know for usually being stockier than the average city dwelling suburban kid…much like guys who grow up in rougher neighborhoods seem to carry more mass on them.

Your body develops according to a need.
[/quote]

I had a friend who worked for years in the ship yard, that had recently gone to the gym with me. He was able to immediately squat, with decent form, 300 lbs. Benched two plates. Guys can get very strong without ever touching a gym, but I would bet that benching 315 for reps with no prior training is rare (let’s say rare is less than 1 in 10000 just to clarify).

Take a good look around the gym (I know. It depresses me too. ;)) next time you’re there. How many of those people look like they could bench 225? I hardly never see anyone pushing 275+ for reps in the gym, or clearly look like they could (maybe 1 in 10?).

Eh. I don’t doubt cutler was able to bench 315 without stepping in a gym, with no prior barbell training. He was a big kid at 15, and I can only imagine that he grew quite a bit more until he hit 18. I also agree that he was probably bigger without ever touching any weights than most of the posters on here; this also goes to show just how rare benching 315 is without prior training, let alone 225.

Clearly, this is a fantastic example that supports this assertion: “Even IF you took steroids, there’s probably no way in hell you’re going to look like a top ranked professional bodybuilder, or even anything close.” Jay was destined to be a big strong dude.

Gah. I started squatting 85 lbs, and couldn’t even bench 135. Blows my mind.

(Edit: Apparently, Jay also started working with concrete at age 11. I’ve done some concrete work. Concrete is heavy. I bet Jay was ALWAYS a huge eater, too; I imagine he had tons of fresh cut meat at his disposal given he also worked/lived (?) on a farm.)

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Is there any PRo BB that wasn’t already well beyond other’s in there development before like the age of 22 lets say?[/quote]

Most had been lifting by that age if they were going to be really big. It is RARE to see someone who literally just picked up a weight in their late 20’s reach that level. There are, however, many guys who were skinny teenagers before they started lifting.

It also depends on what you mean by “well beyond others”. Someone could easily be bigger than most people just at around 220lbs at average height.

Bodybuilding is an activity where the people with the ability for it show signs early on after training. Even if you start off skinny, if over 5 years, people hardly recognize you, you just might have the genes for this. However, if after 5 years people still don’t even know you lift without you telling them or bringing it up, you either lack the genetics, the drive, or the innate athletic ability to even gain much muscle.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying and agree with most of it, but I wouldn’t say that it takes innate athletic ability to gain muscle. Some of the biggest guys I know have never been that athletic, and some of the better athletes I know have a hard time gaining muscle, at least to an “accelerated” level.[/quote]

That would make you incorrect. Innate athletic ability can also refer to how well or how quickly someone adapts to training and learns their own body in terms of what works and what doesn’t. I didn’t need all of the help some of these guys seem to. I also reached arms over 18" pretty quickly. I do not have issues with doing chest exercises yet somehow not feeling my chest.

Your problem is you think of “athletic ability” only in terms of sports…as if there is no connection between results seen and the ability to quickly adapt to what you throw at the human body.

There isn’t much basic difference between the guy who starts this at 150lbs yet blows past everyone in terms of adaptability and someone who is in junior high playing football for the first time yet quickly proves to catch on better than most.

We get it, some of you feel some need to act like bodybuilding involves no athleticism at all. That doesn’t make it true. [/quote]

Don’t get so defensive man. I wasn’t saying or even implying that building muscle requires no athletic ability. It requires a tremendous sense of body awareness, and obviously strength, mental determination and endurance. I just don’t feel innate athletic ability and the ability to gain muscle should be directly linked. Not all ex basketball players turn into Phil Heath.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Don’t get so defensive man. I wasn’t saying or even implying that building muscle requires no athletic ability. It requires a tremendous sense of body awareness, and obviously strength, mental determination and endurance. I just don’t feel innate athletic ability and the ability to gain muscle should be directly linked. Not all ex basketball players turn into Phil Heath.[/quote]

Actually, most of the pro bodybuilders you have ever heard of over the last 15-20 years have been into other athletics before they got heavily into bodybuilding. Shawn Ray played football in high school but quit when he got injured and during rehab noticed how much muscle he was gaining. Ronnie Coleman was also a football player in college as well as proving had he chosen to, he would probably have done quite well in powerlifting…as does Johnnie Jackson. You already mentioned Phil heath and his college basketball career but along with that are all of the ex-soccer players, hockey players and baseball players…

The TRUTH is that athleticism is what led to many of these guys finding out that they had above average potential to gain muscle and strength and many of these guys, had they chosen to, would be considered very “athletic” is they chose to train for a specific sport.

So, once again, being able to achieve a mind-muscle connection faster than most is a form of innate athletic ability and it is those who will see the fastest and greatest progress from weight lifting.

77

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Don’t get so defensive man. I wasn’t saying or even implying that building muscle requires no athletic ability. It requires a tremendous sense of body awareness, and obviously strength, mental determination and endurance. I just don’t feel innate athletic ability and the ability to gain muscle should be directly linked. Not all ex basketball players turn into Phil Heath.[/quote]

Actually, most of the pro bodybuilders you have ever heard of over the last 15-20 years have been into other athletics before they got heavily into bodybuilding. Shawn Ray played football in high school but quit when he got injured and during rehab noticed how much muscle he was gaining. Ronnie Coleman was also a football player in college as well as proving had he chosen to, he would probably have done quite well in powerlifting…as does Johnnie Jackson. You already mentioned Phil heath and his college basketball career but along with that are all of the ex-soccer players, hockey players and baseball players…

The TRUTH is that athleticism is what led to many of these guys finding out that they had above average potential to gain muscle and strength and many of these guys, had they chosen to, would be considered very “athletic” is they chose to train for a specific sport.

So, once again, being able to achieve a mind-muscle connection faster than most is a form of innate athletic ability and it is those who will see the fastest and greatest progress from weight lifting.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying and agree on the past training aspect laying a foundation for future gains.

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[/quote]

(Edit: Apparently, Jay also started working with concrete at age 11. I’ve done some concrete work. Concrete is heavy. I bet Jay was ALWAYS a huge eater, too; I imagine he had tons of fresh cut meat at his disposal given he also worked/lived (?) on a farm.)[/quote]

he said in a life story artical he did that he used to buy meat 200lbs of beef at a time in 1lb blocks for each meal :slight_smile:

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
much like guys who grow up in rougher neighborhoods seem to carry more mass on them. [/quote]

Yeah this is a very interesting observation. Perhaps you could expand on it. It has always puzzled me actually, how you have dudes walking around all jacked and big who live a life that you’d never associate with taking care of your body like that.

Throwing out an example from here in NZ, we have Pacific islander and Maoris (ie think Samoans) where a lot of them are just big. Yet, in the mainstream culture where they live and this supplemented with a majorities lack of income it makes you wonder how they end up jacked.

In the end in boils down to genetics but how the fuck can they maintain that muscle mass without getting the “200g<” protein and the necessary calories.

Personally im happy with my development so far and like my pace of growth but…when you see these dudes who dont know what they’re doing in the weight room but are huge it kind of discourages you a lil (although actually motivates you aswell).

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[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
much like guys who grow up in rougher neighborhoods seem to carry more mass on them. [/quote]

Yeah this is a very interesting observation. Perhaps you could expand on it. It has always puzzled me actually, how you have dudes walking around all jacked and big who live a life that you’d never associate with taking care of your body like that.

Throwing out an example from here in NZ, we have Pacific islander and Maoris (ie think Samoans) where a lot of them are just big. Yet, in the mainstream culture where they live and this supplemented with a majorities lack of income it makes you wonder how they end up jacked.

In the end in boils down to genetics but how the fuck can they maintain that muscle mass without getting the “200g<” protein and the necessary calories.

Personally im happy with my development so far and like my pace of growth but…when you see these dudes who dont know what they’re doing in the weight room but are huge it kind of discourages you a lil (although actually motivates you aswell).
[/quote]

It happens because of the culture involved. Most of the guys I knew growing up were doing push ups and sit ups every night if they didn’t have weights. No one was trying to be weak because that makes you a target. They aren’t doing it for fitness. They do it because they have a better shot at getting laid and because it makes you NOT look like a target while also making you strong enough to defend yourself.

When your initial motivation is to build yourself up so your sneakers don’t get taken, you tend to be more focused than many of the dudes on this site who whine if they have to hit the gym more than 3 times a week.

In short, less pussies around and more threat along with the basic genetics equals greater motivation.

I treated two kids yesterday still in high school both around 5’10" who weighed a solid 200+lbs at the age of 16. Both claimed to be able to bench press more than some of the people here who have lifted for several years and are GROWN UP.

The bottom line is, most of the crap so many of you focus on and end up getting paralyzed by simply does NOT matter.

Eat, lift consistently like your life depended on it and rest.

It is really that damned simple.